Return of the Emblem: Chat

[Phoenix]

UPDATE ... on the update:

I've noted a few times that I'm hoping to try out an idea with the items, and to give people a better idea of what I meant by that, I'll be showing some examples, both as a way to shed some light on the current roadmap, and to cheer myself up. (Lost a monitor today. RIP console gaming and laptoping at the same time o7)

To start, most if not all of the item series (excluding the special weapons categories) are going to be staying. Weapon series that haven't been used or have fallen out of active use are far more at risk for being excluded than others, though getting rid of old things isn't the goal or the go-to solution atm. The second thing I want to point out about the item conversion is weapon types and their traits. Since all the numbers are flat now, it's much easier to make distinctions based on type, so I've been messing around with inherent weapon traits.

The idea behind weapon traits is that regardless of what weapon series you use (Steel, Precise, Killer, etc), you will get certain stat bonuses from the weapon you're wielding. So even iron weapons and basic tomes would give bonuses based on their type with the update. Since 6 is one of my favorite numbers and also the base threshold for rolls, I used that as the target number for balancing all the bonuses with each other. Essentially, every weapon will give you an exact 6 point net gain. This doesn't mean they only give bonuses though, and that doesn't mean the highest bonus is 6 for any given weapon. Some weapons decrease one stat to boost another or multiple stats higher than they could otherwise go. A weapon's series will usually add on its own bonuses so I will have to slightly revise the way items are listed (since I'm not making an entry for individual types, that'd be impractical), but I also want to note that some series will still have penalties like before.

The Dual Wield skill is also going to be revised to factor in these changes, among other things. More on that later ... like way later lol. The first draft of the bonuses is in the spoiler below. If you've got suggestions that's fine but please keep them as unbiased as possible if you do.

[spoiler=Traits list]

SWORD: +2 MT +2 Hit +2 AS

KNIFE: +2 MT +4 AS

LANCE: +4 MT +2 Hit

STAFF: +2 MT +4 Hit

AXE: +6 MT

CLUB: +3 MT +3 Hit

BOW: +6 MT +2 Hit -2 AS

CROSSBOW: +8 MT -2 AS

CHAIN: +4 Hit +2 AS

WIRE: -2 MT +6 Hit +2 AS

SHIELD: +4 Def +2 Res

AUGMENT: +3 MT +3 AS

GUN: +10 MT -4 AS

CANNON: N/A (excluded until I know whether or not cannons will function as implacements)

EXPLOSIVE: +12 MT -3 Hit -3 AS

ORBITAL: N/A (excluded until I decide whether or not to canonize this weapon type)

DIVINE: N/A (excluded until I've ironed out the divine category more fully)

ANIMA: +3 MT +3 Res

LIGHT: +6 MT

DARK: +4 MT +2 Res

Moving on, since I'm really starting to not like how exclusive the shifter class is, I've decided to remove the class and turn its skills into special skills. I just did this so there could be some changes to their mechanics coming in the near future. There are still going to be 12 classes, but I don't want overly nuanced, exclusive, or niche classes. Every general combat role is meant to be accessible to at least some degree with the right combination of skills and equipment.

And so it's time to play a game (not really). I haven't come up with a replacement class yet, so I'm giving you guys the chance to toss out some suggestions. Definitely keep in mind what I mentioned before though, overly nuanced, exclusive or niche classes are a no-go. Try to go for something that makes sense in this setting but isn't too specific or already covered (or at the very least thoroughly covered) by one of the other existing classes. I know that's a bit of a tall order since I've been at this myself since last night, but if nothing comes to mind don't sweat it. Sooner or later something good will surface.

[Mercakete]

Out of curiosity, why is Light so high on MT? I thought that, canonically, it was one of the least damaging magic types.

Also, just what is a wire weapon? (What I think of are those handheld wires that're only effective if you can sneak up behind someone and cut up the person's neck with it.)

(More questions to come, probably, but I have to run right now.)

[Phoenix]

Out of curiosity, why is Light so high on MT? I thought that, canonically, it was one of the least damaging magic types.

Partially because I want one of the three main magic types to have the straight 6 trait to match axes, but also because it fits (just barely) light magic the best overall. Light magic has almost no combat versatility in the lore because of the way it works, it's lightweight from a magical standpoint, and can only create light and heat when it's not in heal!mode, but that's also its strong point. Anima and dark magic have various methods of dealing out damage but light magic is hot and consistent, and its strongest attacks ... *points to Samael* don't have a lot of viable counters. This seemed like a way to smack two birds in one swing, myself excluded.

Also, just what is a wire weapon? (What I think of are those handheld wires that're only effective if you can sneak up behind someone and cut up the person's neck with it.)

You've got the right idea, though chains and wires work together to catch things like nets and certain non-bladed rope weapons. You guys can still flavor things how you want to within reason but these are for more options with closer fitting traits.

[Mercakete]

Regarding light magic, I'm a bit surprised it's not more speed-based. Like, +2HIT +4AS. And Anima's tricky since there are so many variants, and since those variants behave differently. (i.e., I'd say that fire is very much MT-based while wind is more HIT-based.) That's just what I think, though; I'm just giving my prospective, not trying to change anything, to be clear.

Wrt wires/chains, I see. But if they cover such a broad category (nets, chains, wires, whips, ropes, bolas, etc.) how do you distinguish between the chains and wires themselves? This seems important, given that they give different stat-ups. Like, say someone wanted to play a character who uses a barbed net as a weapon. Because it's barbed, I'd personally think it would be classified as a wire (because piercing/cutting potential.) But it may be considered a chain because a net is a bunch of linked ropes (and a chain is a string of linked..links.) And what if there were two people who wanted to use a barbed net, but one wanted the stat benefits of a chain, but the other wanted the effects of a wire? What would it be considered?

Are explosives considered physical or magical? (Most bombs deal damage with shrapnel, but in an environment where magic exists, I could see magic bombs existing.) Is this type unclassified, instead transferring classification to the individual weapon purchased?

If you have proficiency in swords, do you automatically have proficiency in knives? It says under the "expert" skills that knives count as swords, but does that extend to proficiency, or is it only for the weapon/magic triangle and for the expert skills?

I was totalling up stats, and it looks like the barbarian has a total (including MOV) of 24, where the tactician has a total of 25. Is my math wonky? Does MOV factor into stat totals since it can't be added to via level ups?

[spoiler=AND NOW THE GAME: Challenge accepted, sir.]

Option 1 -- Concept: Magic Tank (I actually don't like this one as much as the next one; I found it difficult to come up with much in the way of making it unique from a Guardsman.)

More or less, all I have on this one is that it'd be similar to a Guardsman, but with Light/Anima/Dark natural proficiencies in order to give magic users more versatility. Maybe have a true RES tank. Perhaps, having an expert aura-user as the basis for it. Anyway, have fun with that idea.

Option 2 -- Concept: Antibard

DREAD KNIGHT

Starting Stats:

HP: 4 STR: 4 MAG: 4 SKL: 2 SPD: 1 LCK: 1 DEF: 2 RES: 2 MOV: 4

HP: 12 Might: 4 Hit: 2(? It's rounded down, right?) AS: 1 Evade: 2 Defense: 2 Resistance: 2 Movement: 5

Promotion Bonuses:

OPERATIVE +2 SPD, +1 MAG, +1 STR

CONQUEROR +2 SKL, +1 MAG, +1 STR

Natural Proficiencies: Lance/Dark (and can clearly have Dreads as mounts.)

Available Starting Class Skills: Demoralize, Espionage

All Available Class Skills: Demoralize-Dmoralize+, Inspire Hopelessness, Espionage, Insight, Capitalize

DREAD KNIGHT

DEMORALIZE:

Activates automatically when attacked; any stat bonuses granted to the attacker are cancelled for the duration of the combat round.

DEMORALIZE+:

Activates automatically; whenever the user is engaged in combat, all enemy stat bonuses are cancelled for the duration of the combat round. Demoralize is a prerequisite for Demoralize+.

INSPIRE HOPELESSNESS:

May activate once every 5 turns as a standard action; all enemy stat bonuses are turned into stat penalties for 1 turn.

ESPIONAGE:

Can activate once every 2 turns; If others (whether in your faction or in another one) are benefiting from an Orders effect, so does the user of Espionage. The user may not be directly targetted by friendly Orders. If more than one Order activates, the user of Espionage may choose to replace the previous Order with the new one, but may not have more than 1 Order active at a time. Cannot be used with Insight.

INSIGHT:

When a Tactics skill is activated, the bonuses granted automatically apply to the user of Insight, in addition to the user of said Tactic, for the Tactic's duration. If more than one Tactic activates, the user of Insight may choose to replace the previous Tactic with the new one, but may not have more than 1 Tactic active at a time. Cannot be active at the same time as Espionage. User cannot be targetted by friendly Orders.

CAPITALIZE:

Espionage and Insight may each grant the user one Order and one Tactic simultaneously. Espionage and Insight are prerequisites for Capitalize. User cannot be targetted by friendly Orders.

All of the everything is susceptible to change as per GM discretion and are not in any way, shape or form official classes as per the writing of this post. I am a non-attorney spokesperson.

Edit: Spaces.

Edit2: Wording clarification.

Edit3: HIT (kind of) and MOV (haaaaa) adjusted. Not sure how line of sight has to do with this; maybe for Insp. H.? If so, maybe the cooldown doesn't have to be so gargantuan.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Mercakete

[Script]

Well that solves my AS dilemma ha.

Though it amuses me Knives have the same MT as swords.

[Phoenix]

Regarding light magic, I'm a bit surprised it's not more speed-based. Like, +2HIT +4AS. And Anima's tricky since there are so many variants, and since those variants behave differently. (i.e., I'd say that fire is very much MT-based while wind is more HIT-based.) That's just what I think, though; I'm just giving my prospective, not trying to change anything, to be clear.

Since attack speed is more about quantity of individual attacks and not the amount of time it takes to hit (which is always instant regardless of range), hit and res are the only other boosting stats I'd consider besides MT. Anyway, it's fine to make suggestions. These are the first drafts based partially on lore and partially on loose groupings.

Wrt wires/chains, I see. But if they cover such a broad category (nets, chains, wires, whips, ropes, bolas, etc.) how do you distinguish between the chains and wires themselves? This seems important, given that they give different stat-ups. Like, say someone wanted to play a character who uses a barbed net as a weapon. Because it's barbed, I'd personally think it would be classified as a wire (because piercing/cutting potential.) But it may be considered a chain because a net is a bunch of linked ropes (and a chain is a string of linked..links.) And what if there were two people who wanted to use a barbed net, but one wanted the stat benefits of a chain, but the other wanted the effects of a wire? What would it be considered?

Going to go with 'thickness' as the primary means of differentiating them, but in the end that's mostly a guideline, barring something extreme like someone trying to flavor a gun as knife or an axe as an explosive. Your barbed net example wouldn't be a specific item entry, so the rper using it would have to pick a weapon series and decide whether they want a chain or wire type. Then they'd go ahead with the barbed net flavoring. If two people are using the exact same weapon for whatever reason but choose different types, that's ... mostly fine though it'd be kind of eyeroll prompting to see duplicate cases, duplicate flavoring, and different stats, but that's a personal gripe and not much else.

My main goal with all these weapon types is to cover more ground for weapon types; I still expect there to be plenty of individual flavoring, but this way things should match up a bit more closely with what's actually happening in gameplay. Not perfect by any stretch, but it's a start.

Are explosives considered physical or magical? (Most bombs deal damage with shrapnel, but in an environment where magic exists, I could see magic bombs existing.) Is this type unclassified, instead transferring classification to the individual weapon purchased?

Both; grenades and shock grenades fall into this category. And that's one of the benefits of simplified stats as far as bonuses are concerned.

If you have proficiency in swords, do you automatically have proficiency in knives? It says under the "expert" skills that knives count as swords, but does that extend to proficiency, or is it only for the weapon/magic triangle and for the expert skills?

Knives don't have a proficiency themselves so yes. (This is why thieves have sword as a prof instead of knives)

was totalling up stats, and it looks like the barbarian has a total (including MOV) of 24, where the tactician has a total of 25. Is my math wonky? Does MOV factor into stat totals since it can't be added to via level ups?

With the summoner and shifter classes removed, all classes have between 24 and 25 total stats. The base MOV is 5 for units with less than 4 raw HP and 4 for those with 4. Gives squishies more mobility, basically.

Dread Knight #2

To start the MOV this version would have to be 4 since the raw HP is 4. Also Hit's 1.25 SKL.

That stuff aside, this one's pretty interesting. I also love that you picked one of the promoted class names I had been chewing on earlier. Conqueror would really be nice to use somewhere, sometime~

I'll definitely consider this one, though something did come up earlier that I am looking to incorporate in some way. I didn't mention this during the test we ran last night because it slipped my mind when Joanna got attacked and then I stopped caring since it was just a test, but Line of Sight prevents ranged attacks from getting through opposing units to targets as well unless they're AOE, which is why the Snipe skill on archers reads the way it does. I want to make a magic equivalent for one of the other classes. Whether that means a magic sniper class or just a change to one of the three mainline magic classes is uncertain but I do think a magical equivalent to snipe is in order, otherwise I'll just wind up taking that effect off snipe and making a universal version any class can use.

Though it amuses me Knives have the same MT as swords.

I've played enough Assassin's Creed to take knives, daggers in particular, very seriously lol

Edited July 19, 2016 by Phoenix

[Mercakete]

Adjusted the stats to reflect the statistical constants.

Edit: Also, glad I did ok. :) A magical sniper would be interesting. Just trying to figure how that'd work since magic isn't necessarily ranged. Seems like it'd call for some kind of magic bow sort of weapon.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Mercakete

[Phoenix]

The majority of magic will be 1-2 range, like in FE games. I don't really think a bow is necessary for that, though. The archer's gimmick is special attacks and mobility/evasion perks. A magic equivalent or variant probably wouldn't stray too far from that, though they would probably have different types of special attacks; eg: maybe converting a normal attack into an AOE, or using a linear attack (basically striking multiple targets in a straight line across a set number of spaces). Plenty of ways to go about something like that, though I have a feeling we're just going to wind up with a universal trickshot skill and a slightly nerfed Snipe skill.

[Toogee]

Would it be alright if I get the shop group moving? Sorry I haven't posted in a while.

[Nanami Touko]

Sure, fine by me. We're just teasing shad at this point.

[Phoenix]

Finally, accomplished something I set out to do in the original timeframe. Map is updated enough for me to not be embarrassed to put it online so here ya go. (I know the labels are still small but just bear with me. The scale's not the most convenient for a non-interactive map lol)

[spoiler=Sardius Map (Normal Version)]

You can check out the OP for the boundary version of the map, which completely hides the unnamed locations and highlights each country's territory in an appropriate color.

[Ether]

To this day, scholars and bards alike argue as to the origin of the milky white seas.

[Phoenix]

There's a water version but the old one didn't have a background either so I figured I'd stick with this for a while lol

[-Cynthia-]

I swear that Ohka moved again...

[Phoenix]

It is inevitable, it is Ohka's destiny.

UPDATE:

Hasn't been much actual news in a while so I thought I'd fix that. First off, traits. Not just weapon traits, but also armor and mount traits. I'm doing this to try and be as consistent as possible, and to keep weapons from having a 6 point edge over everything else. Armors will be broken down into 7 types (more than you expected right? lol) with a net gain of 6 points. Mounts are broken down into 6 types with a net gain of 6 as well.

[spoiler=Trait Tables]

Weapons & Magic

Sword +2 MT +2 Hit +2 AS Range: 1

Knife +2 MT +4 AS Range: 1

Lance +4 MT +2 Hit Range: 1

Staff +2 MT +4 Hit Range: 1

Axe +6 MT Range: 1

Club +3 MT +3 Hit Range: 1

Bow +6 MT +2 Hit -2 AS Range: 2

Crossbow +8 MT -2 AS Range: 1

Chain +4 Hit +2 AS Range: 1

Wire -2 MT +6 Hit +2 AS Range: 1

Shield +4 Def +2 Res Range: 1

Augment +3 MT +3 AS Range: 1

Pistol +8 MT -2 AS Range: 1-2

Shotgun +10 Mt -4 Hit Range: 1

Rifle +10 MT -4 AS Range: 2-3

Explosive +12 MT -3 Hit -3 AS Range: N/A

Anima +3 MT +3 Res Range: 1-2

Light +6 MT Range: 1-2

Dark +4 MT +2 Res Range: 1-2

Divine N/A Range: 1-2

---

Armor

Soft +2 Evd +2 Def +2 Res

Leather +2 AS +2 Def +2 Res

Gambeson +3 Def +3 Res

Harness +2 Def +4 Res

Mail +4 Def +2 Res

Blessed -6 AS +4 Def +8 Res

Plate -6 AS +8 Def +4 Res

---

Mounts

Horse +3 AS +3 Evd

Pegasus +3 Evd +3 Res

Wyvern +3 MT +3 Def

Sea Wyrm +2 Evd +2 Def +2 Res (Yes these are a thing)

Elephant +6 MT -4 Evd +4 Def (These are also a thing)

Demon +6 MT

[Script]

Yee haw Faceeater, away!

[KentaEzren]

sweets

[Phoenix]

We've got a lot of inactives on Team Valcyn right now, which makes me reluctant to go through with the RNG Goddess Challenge as is. I'll still consider it if we can get enough people for it but with the current setup, the NPC support is pretty much mandatory. I kind of want to turn it into a normal stat battle since it's been so long (with some minor differences at the start). Note that if we go this route you'll have to wait for the next challenge for the price reduction reward, but you'll get points like normal and the battle average will count toward the upcoming update. That's our current total of 857+(whatever we earn in the next battle)+(whatever Team Sanctuary earns in their next battle)+100(minor compensation for overall price increases and large number of extra spending options)

As a note, regardless of whether or not this comes down to a challenge or normal battle, keep in mind that the stat portion of this will not begin until you see the enemy stats posted and the blue highlighted "Player Phase" noted near the bottom of the post. This notice is for the newer people.

[Snike]

Apologies for absence, I had work going into full swing + uni stuff that has been sorted out. Will be able to post in the next few days.

[Phoenix]

Apology accepted I'm just glad you still exist in some form lol

[Script]

Summer. Power outages. The usual etc..

[Phoenix]

You have my condolences. (Fall a better time for this battle you guys think? )

[Thany]

sorry as well it just seems like my character dissapears sometimes. so i can never figure out when i can find the time to talk.

[Snowy_One]

Happens to me a lot. Want to be my 'randomly disappear due to lack of idea of what to post' buddy?

[Thany]

mabey we can randomly appear next to each other for a casual chit chat XP. but that sounds like a funny idea.