Johalva vs. Johan

[Robert]

Even though it is a stale argument I feel like posting it.

JohALVA is far better.

The only thing Johan has over johalva is better speed growth. However, Johalvas starting speed is far better, and though it wont grow much, if you give him the heros ax he will be able to 2X attack anyways. All the other stats, are better for Johalva. "but his speed wont grow!"

Is lex a great unit? YES and most of the time his speed wont pass 18, but with the heros ax, he can defeat anything. So, since johalva has amazing starting stats in speed, it will be balanced. Since johalva has great growths in every stat but speed, he can hit, crit and double with solely the hero ax.

Johan has for worse starting stats, however has identical growths save speed. His skill growth is abysmal and since it starts low, it will stay low. With Johalvas speed, it starts high so it is balanced out.

With that said, the only thing johan has left is mounted, but Johalva has bows.

Johalva is way better.

Any counter arguments or I am talking to myself? :(

[Ϲharlie]

Johan has far worse bases? The only think Johalva really beats him in is speed, which isn't that big of an advantage. Johalva's skill growth doesn't count for much, either. Yes, it's high, but he starts out with a rather poor 7 skill. At maximum level, Johalva only averages three more skill than Johan. That isn't the sort of thing you would want to write home about.

[Chalis]

Oh no, not this again... (I've been around. I know this argument.)

Both suck, charge is more useful than ambush, using bows > not, ability (option) to fix small problems like move again with knight ring, better base, faster access to Rezire, barbarian > narcissist, blah blah blah, etc.

Am I the only one who stopped caring about the siblings and just killed them both? =x

[Robert]

"At maximum level, Johalva only averages three more skill than Johan." - that is impossible, it starts at 12 and the growth is

10-25 I think. Johalvas is 50.

"Am I the only one who stopped caring about the siblings and just killed them both? =x" - most likely.

[Swordsalmon]

From the actual characters, Johan is better, as he has a pony.

Though for a ranked playthrough, Johalva is better. Recruiting him reduces turns spent bringing Celice to seize Sophara then slowly move through the last castle.

[Robert]

"From the actual characters, Johan is better, as he has a pony. " - ah good point.

[Ϲharlie]

that is impossible, it starts at 12 and the growth is

10-25 I think. Johalvas is 50.

It's perfectly possible.

Johan's average stats

Johalva's average stats

Johalva starts at the same level as his brother but with three less skill. His skill growth is much better, but it means little because of his initial inferiority. Johan starts out with three more skill, while Johalva ends up with three more at level 30. They're roughly even in the middle. Regardless, neither of them have very good skill.

[Celice]

I've used both, but mostly I prefer Yohan, as he's blue, a Great Knight, and uses Axes :P

[Super Mecha Death Christ]

Oh no, not this again... (I've been around. I know this argument.)

Both suck, charge is more useful than ambush, using bows > not, ability (option) to fix small problems like move again with knight ring, better base, faster access to Rezire, barbarian > narcissist, blah blah blah, etc.

Am I the only one who stopped caring about the siblings and just killed them both? =x

Yeah, pretty much. Johalva's better but it also makes Julia useful in combat. That's 2 for the price of one.

[Chalis]

Yeah, pretty much. Johalva's better but it also makes Julia useful in combat. That's 2 for the price of one.

Killing both of them makes a beautiful 10~ level Lakche or Saskasha/Shaska/Skasher/Saskasher/whatever-the-hell-his-name-is, though.

[Fia]

Johan usually pulled out suicide action before I got to recruit him.

Not that I'm planning to anyway.

[Mekkah]

I see no reason to seize Sophara immediatly or ever. All you get out of it is a loss of turns, in trade for +1 Luk for Lana, a worse tome for Julia, and 1000G for everyone next chapter. I'd rather take a shorter time, tyvm. If you recruit Johan, the enemy axe knights will seize Isaac and get rid of those annoying NPCs, and it gives you the time to deal with both brother's armies adequately then go south and fight the Axe Knight army.

And then Johan has a mount, which is worth much more than a slight statistical advantage for Johalva.

[Robert]

You should know average stats almost never turn out as predicted.

[Super Mecha Death Christ]

You should know average stats almost never turn out as predicted.

I agree. That's why I never trust them. They are just guidelines and expectations for me. Well, some people can be trusted like old Karel's stats or people with over 100% in capping a certain stat.

[Robert]

I think there should be specific recorded data. (Except Fe5 unless you dont use scrolls, and stat boosters)

[VincentASM]

Nobody ever said average stats weren't guidelines/expectations, right? The word "average" in mathematical terms is an expectation value. People use them because it beats arguing about "my Level 15 Johalva" or something.

I think there should be specific recorded data. (Except Fe5 unless you dont use scrolls, and stat boosters)

What did you mean by that? : o

[Mekkah]

Average stats aren't the most likely outcome, but merely the middle of all the possible outcomes. If you want the most likely outcome, you should use the mode, but that one doesn't really give as much information. As level increases, the chance the mode is going to be the actual stat for that unit on that level is getting smaller and smaller. That way, it only covers one of many possibilities, as opposed to everyone of them.

Averages are good because 50% of the time, the stat is higher, and 50% of the time, the stat is lower. Meaning that for every possibility that the stat turns out higher, there's one that it turns out lower as well.

[Rei Rei]

Johalva, for personal reasons.

Both are really mediocre, though.

[TheEnd]

Well, some people can be trusted like old Karel's stats or people with over 100% in capping a certain stat.

Not exactly true, sadly, due to poor programming. In my last FE4 playthrough, I did Bridget x Holyn so that Faval would reach 80 hp (175% HP growth). However, reaching that was harder than expected, since the game sometimes insisted that there was a fine possibility of him not gaining any hit points on level-up...

[Clonez]

I like Johan because he rides a horse in a game with huge maps.

[Robert]

What did you mean by that? : o

Actual data of how the characters stats ended up at 20/20 (or 30)

[Super Mecha Death Christ]

Not exactly true, sadly, due to poor programming. In my last FE4 playthrough, I did Bridget x Holyn so that Faval would reach 80 hp (175% HP growth). However, reaching that was harder than expected, since the game sometimes insisted that there was a fine possibility of him not gaining any hit points on level-up...

Wow, really? I didn't know that. I don't ever recall making such a pairing though.

[_____]

Actual data of how the characters stats ended up at 20/20 (or 30)

It's impossible to figure out how a character will always end up at 20/20 or 30 because it will always change.

[Robert]

It's impossible to figure out how a character will always end up at 20/20 or 30 because it will always change.

Yes I know, but you could average the results of the character.

[_____]

Those're called averages.