~New poll~ [FP social space/ Hang-out Sub-Forum?] Input thread

[ghast]

Hey folks, as you probably seen by now, I have now become the new mod for Fan Projects. And this time around with modding I want to make sure you and I are as open and as transparent with each other as possible. (I should have posted this initially, sorry!)

I pretty much expect that the most I'll be doing is just moving questions away from main and keeping the place clean and whatnot and being someone to come to help for. I'm not gonna be going into debates and being like "now fellas please be nice and calm down!" (unless like legit personal insults are being thrown around, in which case I'll pitch in and pm the folks who are doing the name calling)

---

First thing's first, inactive projects will be treated a bit differently than before and will cater to the way Fan Projects work. Basically, instead of:

someone posts in an inactive topic for a month or so -> necro -> "this is a necro pm me if you want this unlocked" -> OP requests unlock.

it will be mostly played by ear, so something like this.

inactive topic for a month of so -> necro -> The thread will stay open for as many posts as I feel warrants a PM to the project creator asking "Hey, so someone revived your topic. What do you want done with it? Do you want it locked, or do you plan on returning to it soon?" -> necessary course of action.

That's basically the most convenient thing for project creators and I'm sure will be the fairest thing to do in that situation. This section is for sure the only section that's gonna roll with that exception though.

Please also just use common sense, if a thread has been inactive for like a year, its probably dead. If you have any questions but don't want to revive a thread that you think is dead, just PM me and I'll see if I can help

-----------------

And some general section improvements:

What has been requested of me is that I update the resource section so it has the most up-to-date stuff. But before I do that,

How do you guys want it updated? Are there any specific threads you want pinned? What do you want changed/ stayed the same?

that's basically it. Please, if you have anything to say that can benefit the look and convenience of Fan Projects, post here! (or PM me, if you want!)

Edited November 6, 2015 by Ghastly

[Blademaster!]

Congrats on becoming a mod! A resource thread that pulls together all the various modification hacks like the triple promotion or fixed ranged weapon patch would be nice.

[Willie]

I think you should keep the animations thread pinned and maybe like an ASM hack directory would be cool, but that might be too much work.

[ghast]

Congrats on becoming a mod! A resource thread that pulls together all the various modification hacks like the triple promotion or fixed ranged weapon patch would be nice.

Okay, ASM thread. Would you want that pinned?

I think you should keep the animations thread pinned and maybe like an ASM hack directory would be cool, but that might be too much work.

For sure, def gonna keep animation pinned.

[CT075]

i think someone updating or making a new tutorial/resource directory would be warranted

[ghast]

i think someone updating or making a new tutorial/resource directory would be warranted

yeah, there are a lot more folks more familiar with those tools than I am. You can update it if you want :o

[CT075]

If I was willing to update the directory thread I would have been doing it for the last three plus months :P

Edited June 24, 2015 by CT075

[ghast]

If I was willing to update the directory thread I would have been doing it for the last three plus months :P

you should make like Shia and just do it >:D

/edited op slightly

Edited June 24, 2015 by GhastStation

[Tangerine]

You could lead and carry out the update, and ask the community if you missed anything worth noting. I'm sure Cam, too, would pitch in if he noticed anything missing, as long as he didn't have to maintain it himself.

[Integrity]

goddamn you've already done more for the community with this thread than i ever did

shoutout to you

[Primefusion]

If Cam doesn't want to update the resource thread, I'll volunteer myself to make a new one. It'll take me a day or two to compile and organize everything, but I don't mind maintaining it.

[ghast]

goddamn you've already done more for the community with this thread than i ever did

shoutout to you

ayeeee :3 just doing my best!

If Cam doesn't want to update the resource thread, I'll volunteer myself to make a new one. It'll take me a day or two to compile and organize everything, but I don't mind maintaining it.

SOLD!

[CT075]

the reason i gave up on maintaining the resource directory was primarily laziness but also because i couldn't figure out what to do with things like nintenlord's utility patches - it isn't immediately obvious, for example, that you have to use a resource in there to make character banning/forcing work (i have a personal gripe with people going "THIS BE MAH SHIT" and then only putting their utility patches in that thread)

[ghast]

lol,

Okay, so what about 'Questions'

There's only one pinned post and that's Event Assembler questions. Do you think it'd be a good idea to make another pinned post regarding Nightmare questions, or feditor?

Or even making an FAQ would be interesting maybe?

Or just be like whatever, and leave that section the way it is?

[Primefusion]

I'm not sure about a Nightmare thread, but a FAQ and a FEditor thread seem like they could be pretty useful.

The biggest problem I'm seeing, though, is that even though we have an EA thread, people are still posting their own topics for event questions. I fear the same would happen for a FEditor thread.

I'd be okay with making the FAQ thread myself, if we think it's worthwhile.

[ghast]

boop

just trying to grab your attention, Cam. What are frequently asked questions? I know you tend to answer a lot of questions in that section.

/ thoughts of a FAQ thread?

[CT075]

by far the most common questions i answer are event-related but they aren't the kind of questions that can be put in an FAQ

E:

and by that i mean they're, as a group, too spread out (as in none of them are really "frequent")

the only answer i've really had to say more than once or twice involves an explanation of core concepts and i think that's a bit wordy for an FAQ

E2:

I'd be in support of an FAQ thread, though, I just can't think of any really frequent questions offhand

Edited June 26, 2015 by CT075

[ghast]

yeah, I'd need to sit down and brainstorm with some other hackers and see what are actual general questions. Hmm.

[Agro]

I actually think making separate topics for each question is far better than having one topic for all of them. The biggest problem is having "repeat" questions and the frustration that comes with having already dealt with the exact same thing in the past. FYI if you search for posts individually with the IPB search function it's very clinky to find each one. I think we should actually abolish the EA topic altogether - and it's not like the SF servers are going to be completely destroyed by separate topics for each question. This way the topic title for each question is absolutely descriptive of the problem and is much easier to find and link to should the same question arise.

If anything we need to overhaul how the questions forum is handled - we should be enforcing rules that people are allowed to ask as many questions as they want but they must provide as much information as possible in the topic title e.g. rather than "weird nightmare error" it should be "the game freezes after I've used Nightmare". Each topic should have a succinct description of what was done and EXACTLY what kind of error occurred. Once again this makes things much easier to track down if they are needed later.

Take Avril's music questions, for example. S/he gave vague descriptions of the errors like "it sounds like garbage" which is useless information to me and to make matters worse the user did not follow instructions given in the linked tutorial which led to a wild goose chase in terms of troubleshooting. Later I typed out an extremely detailed response which took an hour of my time and I didn't even get so many as a response from the user, so I have no idea if I helped at all.

It's these sort of practises that make helping new hackers very frustrating. There needs to be an overall attitude change. Stop with the "OMG IT BROKE HEELP" bullshit and start helping us help you.

Additionally it would be ideal if very good explanatory posts were separated into their own topics so that they too can be easily located.

(obviously keegs my anger isn't directed at you, it's more at the community.)

[ghast]

I actually think making separate topics for each question is far better than having one topic for all of them. The biggest problem is having "repeat" questions and the frustration that comes with having already dealt with the exact same thing in the past. FYI if you search for posts individually with the IPB search function it's very clinky to find each one. I think we should actually abolish the EA topic altogether - and it's not like the SF servers are going to be completely destroyed by separate topics for each question. This way the topic title for each question is absolutely descriptive of the problem and is much easier to find and link to should the same question arise.

If anything we need to overhaul how the questions forum is handled - we should be enforcing rules that people are allowed to ask as many questions as they want but they must provide as much information as possible in the topic title e.g. rather than "weird nightmare error" it should be "the game freezes after I've used Nightmare". Each topic should have a succinct description of what was done and EXACTLY what kind of error occurred. Once again this makes things much easier to track down if they are needed later.

Take Avril's music questions, for example. S/he gave vague descriptions of the errors like "it sounds like garbage" which is useless information to me and to make matters worse the user did not follow instructions given in the linked tutorial which led to a wild goose chase in terms of troubleshooting. Later I typed out an extremely detailed response which took an hour of my time and I didn't even get so many as a response from the user, so I have no idea if I helped at all.

It's these sort of practises that make helping new hackers very frustrating. There needs to be an overall attitude change. Stop with the "OMG IT BROKE HEELP" bullshit and start helping us help you.

Additionally it would be ideal if very good explanatory posts were separated into their own topics so that they too can be easily located.

(obviously keegs my anger isn't directed at you, it's more at the community.)

that sounds like a good suggestion.

i want ur attention

i also want ur attention

should we scrap the event assembler questions thread, leave all questions free to ask in that section and make a question asking guidelines topic?

[CT075]

There is nothing more disappointing than clicking on a "Weird Bug!1!" topic and expecting an actually interesting problem only to see a FEditor question

[ghast]

haha, then perhaps then new format can go like

for question thread titles:

Type of problem: problem

e.g.

Nightmare: How do I make fire effective against cavalry?

Event Assembler: How come this condition isn't working?

i mean its kind of wishful thinking that people asking the question will actually be /that/ specific. but it'd be really helpful for people actually doing the answering, eh?

Edited June 28, 2015 by GhastStation

[CT075]

So the biggest problem is that, especially for a newer hacker, articulating the exact source of the problem can be fairly difficult. For example, making a minor mistake when inserting a map sprite (maybe they clipped the prologue map or something but they didn't insert until a few chapters later) could lead to seemingly random complications a couple days later

I think the rule of thumb should be try to have a title that gives some indication or broad overview of what your problem is ("FEditor Animations pixellated", "Ballista randomly disabled"), and then give potential causes and other information in the post itself. Or, for more general questions, just ask the damn question in its simplest form as the topic title and clarify in the post

[Primefusion]

I very much disagree with getting rid of the Event Assembler thread.

This is because, no matter how well one person might create their question topic, a lot of people just don't do their homework. There will always be repeat questions, regardless of whether a question has been asked in a problem-specific thread, or a catch-all thread like the EA one.

At least with the catch-all thread I know what I'm getting into when I see there's a new post.

Also, some people might be intimidated by the idea of making a topic to ask a question (I know I was when I became a forum-goer), and posting in a catch-all thread can be slightly less intimidating.

[Klokinator]

I actually think making separate topics for each question is far better than having one topic for all of them. The biggest problem is having "repeat" questions and the frustration that comes with having already dealt with the exact same thing in the past. FYI if you search for posts individually with the IPB search function it's very clinky to find each one. I think we should actually abolish the EA topic altogether - and it's not like the SF servers are going to be completely destroyed by separate topics for each question. This way the topic title for each question is absolutely descriptive of the problem and is much easier to find and link to should the same question arise.

If anything we need to overhaul how the questions forum is handled - we should be enforcing rules that people are allowed to ask as many questions as they want but they must provide as much information as possible in the topic title e.g. rather than "weird nightmare error" it should be "the game freezes after I've used Nightmare". Each topic should have a succinct description of what was done and EXACTLY what kind of error occurred. Once again this makes things much easier to track down if they are needed later.

Take Avril's music questions, for example. S/he gave vague descriptions of the errors like "it sounds like garbage" which is useless information to me and to make matters worse the user did not follow instructions given in the linked tutorial which led to a wild goose chase in terms of troubleshooting. Later I typed out an extremely detailed response which took an hour of my time and I didn't even get so many as a response from the user, so I have no idea if I helped at all.

It's these sort of practises that make helping new hackers very frustrating. There needs to be an overall attitude change. Stop with the "OMG IT BROKE HEELP" bullshit and start helping us help you.

It doesn't matter if you write in the rules, pin it in a section, or even make a flashing notice on topic entry saying 'be descriptive with your titles!', people will always ignore it and type 'HALP ME WEIRD BUG FOUND' anyway. Partially because they're too lazy to search or don't know how to search, partially because noobs/newbs never read the rules, partially because most people are the kinds of people to think they're a unique butterfly with a unique problem, and partially... because in the end, they just don't care and they think quickly typing out a crappy title with a nondescript problem will get them quick results. To the majority of noobs who've never made a game or done anything actually productive before -and I think we've all experienced this at one point or another- a game is EZ 2 MAKE and can be made in like 2 months. Yep, you can throw together a Last Promise level of gameplay and customization by pressing the CREATE GAME button. To top it off, they think their time is important and/or running out quickly to maybe corner the market or draw attention to themselves/earn praise for their game. Add all this together, and you have a cocktail of 'nothing you say to them matters' where in the end, they just have to be told by someone else that their topic title is poor and their descriptions of the issue are useless.

You can sure try to remedy the problem... if you like futility. Having gone to dozens and dozens of forums in my life though, I can safely say it's definitely futile. Those who hear 'your problem describing ability sucks' and leave probably weren't going to be a community stay-in anyway, and those who learn from their mistakes are well worth weeding from the pack. That's my take, anyway.

Incidentally, I also say this because for years we've been trying to get people to just use the Search button first. It's never worked. It probably never will work. Actually, FEU is the only place with a workable solution, since it offers similar topics to your problem you're typing about on the side. Implement something like that, and you'll get much better results.

Edit: Example I threw together.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Klokinator