(Serenes Forest Mafia) General Discussion

[euklyd]

because I felt like it

also I might have forgotten that Warlocks were a thing

EDIT

Guys, could you please spam this thread instead: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=42916

got it

Edited May 2, 2014 by Euklyd

[Paperblade]

MY SOUL IS BURNING

I sort of want to host a crosstown game but I feel like Prims/BBM/SB would be better suited to a motk crosstown and a Smogon one would be horrible.

[Prims]

host evolution as a smogon crosstown, i want to play with jalmont

[Paperblade]

I could do that in theory

[Prims]

see: what i said on irc

[Paperblade]

I'm not at home and won't be for like 3 hours

[Prims]

<Prims> Paperblade hostsmogoncrosstowngame

<Prims> I'm sure it wouldn't be horrible if you just like, did it as an invitational

<Prims> also you could get BT and jalmont

<Prims> there are 0 downsides

<Prims> and zorbees

<Prims> lol

<Prims> Smogon Side : BT/jalmont/zorbees/Walrein/DLE/Metal Sonic

<Prims> SF Side : Prims/BBM/BBM/BBM/BBM/Sho

<Prims> there i got your playerlist

[Refa]

Sho didn't get enough representation IMHO.

[SB.]

[10:54:36] SB: i've considered doing a game where like
[10:54:48] SB: rather than trying to reach parity
[10:54:55] SB: scum are trying to find specific targets
[10:55:08] Boron: Hmm
[10:55:14] Boron: That would be interesting
[10:55:21] Boron: Kind of like .hack mafia
[10:55:25] SB: and kill those players to win
[10:55:26] Boron: Where both scum teams were hunting a specific townie?
[10:55:32] Boron: Except they WIN when they kill them?
[10:55:32] SB: yeah except there would be more of them
[10:55:36] Boron: That could work
[10:55:41] Boron: What's the rest of town, then
[10:55:44] Boron: The ones who are not targets?
[10:55:50] SB: just other townies
[10:55:54] Boron: Lol
[10:55:59] SB: who all work to try and lynch the scum

Uh yeah, any thoughts on a game like this? Also how big a game do you think this would justify and around how many targets do you think would fit for a game of that size?

[Refa]

So like Resistance?

[SB.]

I guess it's kind of like a Resistance Mafia hybrid, except scum needs to kill their targets through nightkills/lynches rather than one assassination at the end.

[Scarlet]

That'd probably tilt the game balance heavily into the mafia's favor, as they still win when they reach parity (since town no longer has any control over kills when that happens) and could, in theory, just randomly hit their targets withhin a day or two without giving the town any advantages to balance it out.

The scumteam would probably need to be really small for that to work. Maybe even just two independent assassins or something?

[euklyd]

Or it might work better if the mafia's killing power was weakened by a LOT.

[SB.]

I was thinking of a really small mafia for it to the point that they'd be screwed trying to reach parity in a normal game and a fair amount of targets and some deliberate designing to try and prevent the mafia from being able to sweep too quickly?

I dunno though, that's why I want other people's opinions on numbers and such, but I'd like to keep the sides at least somewhat equal in size (targets v mafia.)

[euklyd]

Making # targets = # mafia would be ridiculous imo.

Mafia would win simply by surviving as many nights as there were mafiosos even without any "on-target" lynches, which would make a small scumteam highly advantageous.

There's also much less incentive not to bus your own teammates for towncred if you're not trying to reach parity, which would make it much harder to scumhunt, I think. You'd have to reveal if someone was a "target" on-flip, I think, and even that wouldn't help a whole lot....

so that's also something to consider

[SB.]

Considering the mafia don't know who the targets would be (they'd be looking for flavour names or something, not specific players) I don't think a 4 man mafia would win in 4 nights unless town lynched their targets or something. And yeah, I would reveal targets (and probably numbers at the start of the game) when they died or whatever.

[euklyd]

OH okay. fsr I thought they did know, which seems totally silly in retrospect.

[Scarlet]

Maybe 12 players with a scumteam of two, who need to eliminate two of three targets to win?

That'd give scum a 30% chance N1 to hit one of their targets (assuming they act randomly).

Then again there's the possibility of town lynching the targets instead, so maybe two scum needing to eliminate three out of four targets would be more reasonable. I dunno.

Of course, another issue worth considering is whether the targets ought to be aware of the fact that they're targets or not.

[SB.]

Targets would definitely be aware, and I think the mafia should have to eliminate all of the targets?

I had 4/12/4 (target/normal townie/mafia) down as one possibility for numbers, but that has problems with how realistically large the game would be on top of just "would this actually work".

[Scarlet]

Hm, I see.

Thinking about it a little more, the number of targets should definitely be a bit higher than the number of mafia, as the mafia get two chances per day-night-cycle to kill one of their targets (lynch & kill), whereas the town still only has the lynch to eliminate the mafia.

...unless you were to add another twist and give the town a chance to win instantly by lynching the godfather or something.

Also important, for obvious reasons: would you give the mafia a rolecop?

[euklyd]

Flavorcop would probably work as well, while being somewhat less powerful, if that's a thing that might be needed.

[Grace]

thought, if it wasn't already mentioned: make the mafia have to guess the entire list of hunted players, and they can only guess once per night. mafia wins if they get the entire list (optional: tell them how many they got each night)

also make the list more vague and don't make flavor terribly obvious (see: Shipping Mafia pairings)

Edited May 24, 2014 by Curly Brace

[SB.]

I don't really like the whole guessing idea because there's not really much town can do about it if the mafia get it all right?

The number of targets thing is probably reasonable though. I probably wouldn't give town a particular advantage over them just being stronger than the mafia overall, making it really hard for the mafia to win by parity. Limiting mafia kills/inspects is probably worth considering too, but they probably need them both at least to an extent.

If anyone wants to co-host this thing with me or something, drop me a pm? Preferably someone kinda experienced at least because this could potentially be swingy.

[Grace]

I don't really like the whole guessing idea because there's not really much town can do about it if the mafia get it all right?

it's not a lot different to "kill these targets", and you can get away with less players if required

also if town don't out their flavor, then mafia have to kill the people anyway to find the flavor so??? (i admit that mafia could luckily guess but even on list a 3p list in a 12p game it's still 1 in 220 (edit: actually that doesn't consider the number of mafia, o well) on a blind guess, and the chances get worse on increasing either the number of players or number of people on the list)

Edited May 24, 2014 by Curly Brace

[SB.]

"Kill these targets" has to contend with protective roles and such, and town would probably out if they were a target getting lynched anyway? Plus there's potential investigations and other stuff, so I think the odds are a lot lower than that?