Fire Emblem 6 Mafia: (Day 4)

[MRDRHAWK]

Baldrick should get town MVP for that alone

ftr I don't care if he's playing or not

this was just that bad for town

[Baldrick]

I think that was the first game I "played" with Helios and kaoz since schoolteacher.

All the nostalgia. couldn't lynch helioscum this time, huh town?

Edited December 24, 2013 by Baldrick

[Baldrick]

I'd say shinori and/or rapier should get it for effort but they were literally the two mislynches so...

[Rapier]

Hi guys, I'm ready to go! I know bear got a bit sketchy near the end, but I will do my best to prove my towniness to you all.

At the moment, I'm most suspicious of Paperblade and kaoz. I agree with prims' reasoning and of the inactives kaoz sounds the worst out of all of them.

Pedit: cut by a few phases. WELP

wow your jointime is worse than yodel's

and Jedi was the hidden player that I mistook for Rein. *sigh*

That was a fun game, having stayed away from Mafia for so long and all. Granted, I failed miserably in the start, but the experience is what counts.

[Baldrick]

My character should have been Karel.

Doesn't join until after the bad ending.

[Elieson]

Fire Emblem 6 Mafia: Postgame

This game was designed at a time in which Boron and I were concerned about SF focusing too much on Rolespec. The intent of this game layout was to feature mafia having a powerful role that would likely be viewed as town due to the nature of SF, despite whether or not said player was scummy. We tried to throw in several roles that would lead the town to begin doubting itself, and force players to look at content rather than roleclaim. The main reason why I wanted to offer designs for fakes for all players and allow full PM posting was actually to discourage Rolespec, since I could easily generate pretty much any claim at all.



Mafia:

Zephiel, Day Vig 2-shot
Brunya, Odd night Safeguard (Disabled when 6 players or less are alive) / Even night Ninja Role Cop

We intended on having a sort of elite scumteam that would be small, but able to pretty much always nab a kill. Still, 12:2 seemed like a bit much with mafia having 2 extra kills (equivalent to 1 extra mislynch+nk), so we considered, and later included, a factional bonus. On Night 0, each of the two mafia members could sort of Prime / Preset a Vengeful kill (we called this "Deathmarking", and when one of the mafia team were to die under non-*YLO circumstances, both deathmarked players would go down with them. It wasn't intended to punish town for lynching correctly, but it was supposed to help mafia gain some tracks in case they weren't doing well early on in the game. It could've been used as a sort of threat "Hey, lynch me and 2 players I selected are gonna be killed simultaneously", or something similar. These would be untracable

Thus, we came to the roles themselves.

We pretty much decided on mafia being small early on, and that we wanted mafia to have a day-vig. Opted for 2-shot, because even with the game being the size that it was, for mafia to have 4 extra kills (instead of 2), one mafiaso would have to be dead by about D3-4, leaving the scary possibility of mafia successfully dayshooting on both D1 and D2 and the numbers being a 7:1 (following a successful Night kill).

What if the Double Dayvig was lynched early on? There was no assurance that a player would play well on Freetalk N0 and D1, so we opted for an combo partner. The partner would be a full strongkiller, but could only kill on alternate nights, with an informational role usable on inbetween nights. Went with Role Cop because it just seemed fitting, but with the design of the game, we later added in a Ninja modifier to the Role Cop, so that the multiple tracking roles wouldn't necessarily be able to catch this part of a role, helping with claiming. Then we scrapped the idea of a Strongkiller and changed it to a Safeguard, with the idea of claiming on the mind. It was originally 2-shot, but modifier to permanent (odd night).

Mafia having a Safeguard and a Dayvig seemed OP but with only 2 members, it seemed like a fine way to balance the team versus the town that we'd have to build.

Mafia also needed fakeclaims. They got a bunch (which I didn't think they'd use), including:
Safeguard, Coroner, Backup (all variants including Deputy and Universal), Weaponry Checker, Bomb (all variants)

It seemed like a lot, but everything aside from the Safeguard was unprovable, and would encourage more rolespec due to questionable results.

Thus, we needed to build a town around this that followed in the theme of our game




Town:

Day Desperado / Night Oracle
Tracker
Role Cop 2-shot
Role Blocker 3-shot
Compulsive Friendly Neighbor 2-shot
Motivator
Reporter
Mass 1x Nightshot Restorer 1-shot
Martyr 1-shot OR Watcher 1-shot
Miller Macho-Enabler 2-shot
Odd Night Jailer
Doctor

Starting off, we needed to include some information. With the mafia Safeguard (Odd night, but still) floating about, we felt that a Tracker was needed. If the tracker was removed from the game early on, we included the Reporter (which could check if a user acted or not). It wasn't as powerful as tracker, and would be a half-decent backup to check for liars primarily.

Then came the Miller. The Miller would've shown as mafia aligned to any Alignment Check (which wasn't included in the game, specifically because Rolespec would make people assume things, and that would break the game's theme). The Macho-Enabler part existed for three reasons. One, it would conflict with the Safeguard in terms of claim discussion. Two, it would allow any player he used it on to bypass the mafia Safeguard. Three, when combined with the Miller, it would make the player attempt to play in a way that it wouldn't be PoE lynched later on in the game, since it's quite powerful with multiple claims on the floor.

Then a new role. We wanted to include an oracle, thinking that with one of the 4 kills that mafia could pull off as an extra, this would help narrow things down just a little bit. What if the Oracle claimed and never got targetted/killed? What if it got lynched instead of killed? That's where the idea of the Day Desperado came into mind. The Oracle could suicide to provide a clear/guilty, and contribute without being alive. It seemed like a bit much with the Day-vig, but that was an oversight not noticed until the game started.

Another semi-unused role was the Friendly Neighbor. I thought of it while re-reading School Teacher Mafia, and figured that one claiming this could be viewed as town or cult, which may do several things with regards to discussion. I didn't want a player to sit on this, (I don't like giving roles to players that don't end up using them), and I didn't want a player to save it for lategame, so it was designed to be both limitted (for balance) and compulsive (for early use, when targets might be removed from the game in one way or another).

Basic protection included an obligatory Doctor, and we added in a Jailer with a modifier because many other roles had modifiers, and a Jailer is twice as strong as a doctor (so gets half of the uses). With a Jailer included, we figured to add in a limited use Roleblocker. It was originally 4-shots, but we kicked it down to 3.

Town needed a bit more of actual flat information, so while an alignment cop seemed neat, it went against the Miller, so we opted for a Role Cop. Limitted of course, we thought 3-shots would be fair, but kicked it down to 2, to encourage more thought per use.

Thus we had 3 undesignated roles. A Motivator sounded neat, as it would allow any player to act twice. This would help both sides, so it didn't seem like a huge boon to include. It would also force x-shot users to use a second charge, which would be both good and bad.

Then a watcher. Original design called for a Lightning Rod 1-shot + Watcher 1-shot, but it was changed to Watcher OR Martyr[Decoy] 1-shot, because the lightning rod seemed to strong for town.

Lastly, with all the X-shot roles, an X-shot Restorer. A single target X-shot restorer sounded lame (if poorly used/blocked by the SG, well there goes that), so it was changed to Mass, restoring 1 shot for all people who used 1 of their shots. It would benefit the Watcher, Friendly Neighbor, Macho Enabler, Role Cop and Role Blocker.



Self-Aligned:

The game needed a self-aligned player, but it really didn't. We thought one might balance things out a bit better, but then opted for a Hidden player that couldn't affect the game in a serious way. Thus, the Fa role. Fa had to guess the identity [read as Nameclaims] of most of the players. It was originally set to all players, but then reduced down to 13 (including herself), because if mafia fakeclaimed and a guess was submitted, Fa would lose. It was never intended to be a serious threat to any side, and just sort of testing the waters for a Third Party that didn't have a straight "Be the last man standing" wincon. You should all know me by now, that I like to include out-of-the-ordinary wincons for Thirds aside from typical SK and/or Cult (see Bakura, Battle City Finals Mafia; Cowboy Bebop and Yu-Gi-Oh!, Toonami Mafia; Lemon, Shining Force 2 Mafia)

(Hidden Miller Free Communication Null Vote Character Guesser)
Must correctly guess 13/15 player character claims by Game End to win. May use flips as confirmation of character identity. May submit guess as Day/Night X: I know who they are! [uSERS 1-15] are {characters}!. Gets one attempt.
Cannot vote. Ever.
A single post in thread reveals identity of this character, and forces them onto the playerlist.
If revealed and added to Player List, cannot vote but affects Hammer count regardless. Dies the day after being revealed. May participate in discussion.
May communicate in OC, but if recipient contacts a host regarding communication, Fa is immediately revealed and added to Player List.
Is displayed as Goon if checked, and cannot claim this knowledge (or else immediate modkill).

It was added more for the purpose of having an extra character with an extra mission, rather than a player that had to play the game + follow their mission. It was conceptual, but affected the game in pretty much no way at all, unless revealed, and then, only temporarily.

Also, we modifier Rule 28 to hint at the existence of a hidden.



Scrapped:

Town initially had a PGO 1-shot included in the game, to counter the Day-vig, but it just seemed like too much. It would've made the game 13:2, which was even more lopsided, and been a counter to only 1 role/faction, which seemed like too much of a boon.

Originally, the Miller wouldn't be flipped properly if the Oracle/Desperado targetted him, but that treaded on bastard territory and was scrapped.

Extra thoughts:

Considering that Touhou had some modifier for scum getting a Vengeful kill if scum died by D3 (It didn't activate), it's not like this was the first time it has ever been designed and implemented; it's just the first time it had been activated in a game-changing way, that could be manipulated by the side that had access to it. The Deathmarks were a sort of controversial thing in our development, but it went with the theme of the game, and was a primary element of the smaller, kill oriented scumteam.

I didn't originally view the game as swingy during development. FMPOV, mafia had so many ways to eliminate players, so having town be strong when town would die like crazy only seemed fair. A weaker town would've had to rely more on scumhunting and have had less protection from the stronger team. Rutger was swingy yes, but I think N0 had benefits to both sides. Brunya couldn't be tracked on N0, meaning that only the Role Cop could catch her, but heck, any game with an alignment checker could catch mafia on Night 0, if there was a Night 0. In Hindsight, I probably would've added one additional player to each side, though as for their roles, I'm not sure what I'd add (Probably give the mafia a full time Godfather Ninja that would display as some other passive role, and give the town an X-shot redirecting role of some sort)

Edited December 24, 2013 by The Protown SK

[Shinori]

I'm kind of annoyed that I wasn't even given a chance to argue the position.

Just kinda said "IM LYNCHING SHINO YOLO"

[Elieson]

Player Analysis...I'm in the middle of that and cooking dinner for the kids. That'll be up in a couple of hours

[Elieson]

Also, I liked the Rutger role. A lot. If y'all didn't like it, tell me, because I'll likely include it in a future game (that's not already on the Queue because Host meta lol plus they're already done.

[Baldrick]

It's alright. I think the best way to use it is to not use the desperado part until MYLO. Preventing a possible D1 mislynch isn't worth suiciding yourself for.

Also, two millers without a cop? scandalous

[Refa]

Honestly I think SB hurt town more than he helped it.

EDIT wrt to his role, and I was even worse in that regard, so not trying to be a douchewhistle to him.

Edited December 24, 2013 by Refa

[Prims]

Rutger was cool but kinda made Paper's role obvious

[Paperblade]

SB's role was fine but it made my safeclaim really not safe at all

[Bluedoom]

tbh

Kaoz's fake implied he was scum via rolespec, if you looked at my flip and Refa's.

[eclipse]

Also, I liked the Rutger role. A lot. If y'all didn't like it, tell me, because I'll likely include it in a future game (that's not already on the Queue because Host meta lol plus they're already done.

I liked it, too. However, I'd put a few modifiers on it if I decide to steal it.

[Paperblade]

because we never gave Elieson logs

[spoiler=Superior Mafia Chat]

[2013-12-15 11:58:27] <Kuroz> you gotta announce your shot in the thread, right?

[2013-12-15 11:58:31] <Paperblade> yes

[2013-12-15 11:58:34] <Paperblade> or else I would've

[2013-12-15 11:58:37] <Paperblade> insta shot someone

[2013-12-15 11:58:45] <Paperblade> and by someone

[2013-12-15 11:58:47] <Paperblade> I mean Vhaltz

[2013-12-15 11:58:50] <Paperblade> just on the offchance

[2013-12-15 11:58:53] <Paperblade> he had inspected your slot

[2013-12-15 11:59:07] <Kuroz> yeah... "I-I-I didn't mean to shoot guys, I just typed it out for fun and my finger slipped"

[12/15/2013 7:38:27 PM] Kaoz: who dies tonight?

[12/15/2013 9:14:45 PM] Brad: not sure

[12/15/2013 9:15:18 PM] Kaoz: we could kill Vhaltz, or if you want to go super challenge mode we can kill bearclaw

[12/15/2013 9:15:34 PM] Brad: what is bear

[12/15/2013 9:15:47 PM] Kaoz: idk, probably town?

[2013-12-19 09:44:26] <Paperblade> it depends on who we best think

[2013-12-19 09:44:30] <Paperblade> you can beat at lylo

[2013-12-19 09:44:31] <Kuroz> wait, Prims and scorri both die when either of us gets lynched? I thought it was a 1-1 trade

[2013-12-19 09:44:35] <Paperblade> nope

[2013-12-19 09:44:40] <Kuroz> neat

[2013-12-19 09:44:43] <Paperblade> we both die

[2013-12-19 09:44:45] <Paperblade> er

[2013-12-19 09:44:48] <Paperblade> they both die

[2013-12-19 09:44:50] <Paperblade> if either of us dies

[2013-12-19 09:45:04] <Kuroz> uh, tbh I don't expect to beat anyone 1v1, no matter who it is

[2013-12-19 09:45:16] <Paperblade> where's your confidence

[2013-12-19 09:45:29] <Kuroz> whereever my activity is

[2013-12-19 10:09:06] <Kuroz> also why are people always killing themselves in games I play

[2013-12-19 10:09:15] <Paperblade> you have that effect on people

12/21/2013 7:38:47 AM] Kaoz: ok, so here's my plan, right - as soon as the phase starts, I'm gonna claim one shot roleblocker who stopped Refa last night and pray that the other two will lynch him before he can say anything

[12/21/2013 7:39:04 AM] Brad: lmao

[12/21/2013 7:39:05 AM] Brad: best plan

[12/21/2013 7:39:13 AM] Brad: 10/10

[7:16:43 AM] Kaoz: and hopefully Poly quickhammers or something

[7:17:13 AM] Brad: good luck

[7:17:49 AM] Kaoz: thanks

[7:18:12 AM] Kaoz: let's face it, one of the two is just gonna kill themselves by breaking some rule

[7:18:27 AM] Brad: that would be anticlimatic

[7:18:48 AM] Kaoz: you're the one who said I have that effect on people

[2013-12-23 22:26:40] <Kuroz> I should write a guide: How to win a mafia game in 10 posts

[Grace]

Wait what, so it's actually a real hidden player? I thought you were just poking fun at last game

If it's manix then lol

[18:40] <awaynix> not sure how i would be the hidden as checker but okay

[18:41] <@Kuroz> it's the perfect disguise

[18:41] <awaynix> totes

[eclipse]

[18:40] <awaynix> not sure how i would be the hidden as checker but okay

[18:41] <@Kuroz> it's the perfect disguise

[18:41] <awaynix> totes

Brush up on your history, kiddo~! Death Note did it first~!

[Percivalé]

[2013-12-19 10:09:06] <Kuroz> also why are people always killing themselves in games I play

[2013-12-19 10:09:15] <Paperblade> you have that effect on people

favorite

[BBM]

I thought Rapier was incredibly obvtown because he was actually committing to reads, even if they were sometimes questionable, and being super active, whereas his scum meta is pushing people really weakly.

If I had SB's role I would have YOLO'd and Orced Paper off his first RVS post because it gave me really bad vibes. Personally I think with that sort of role I would use it near the beginning of the phase rather than near the end, whether that be D1 or some other day. The latter can force you to consolidate on one person if the targets flips town and also means that the phase gets kind of wasted for people who go after one guy only for them to get confirmed town a few hours before phase end.

I also think town had a bit too much investigation. In particular the Tracker could have been really strong in this setup if the Brunya role had gone down early, and it wasn't even limited.

Marth voting Eury at some point was kind of wtf?

Edited December 27, 2013 by BigBadMarshmallow

[Paperblade]

the town had like 7-8 info roles it was actually sort of ridiculous

[Sunwoo]

Totally not late and stuff

SB: He did pretty well for having existed only in D1. Reads weren't entirely accurate, but D1. Not sure why you decided to explode yourself the way you did, though, that hurt town a lot.

Rapier: Was actually active, a nice change of pace. Try to keep your thoughts organized and consistent, though, if you're having a hard time keeping track of people's posts and content. Also, keep track of who's playing and try not to go off on tangents with non players.

Vhaltz: Died because he got scanned by mafia. Just be sure you can explain things, that other people are understanding your points, and don't rely on meta so much.

Marth: Reads were good (suspected Paper D1) but I have to question why you dropped him for Polydeuces later without explaining why. Be sure to always explain why you are changing your vote if the person who your vote is on still is scummy to you. Also, why the fuck did you vote Eury when she was confirmed town to you at the end of N0? This is just ?_?

Eury: Read the rules, and try not to nitpick so much when defending yourself. A lot of your posts are okay/read townish at first, but you get over defensive and nitpicky when people think you're scum. That gets you lynched more often than not.

Xinnidy: I think you were playing while in a bad headspace, which never helps. Just keep in mind that mafia is a game and no one wants to hurt you for real, and not everyone knows that there are triggers that will set you off or what those triggers are.

kirsche: You tunneled a bit on Marth for when you did exist, try to let up a bit on that tunneling.

bearclaw: Exist more, please.

Baldrick: lol

Paperblade: Your early stuff looked mostly all right, although hounding on Marth after SB's flip was not a good move. It literally looked like scum trying to opportunistically mislynch a townie. Also, try to explain your reasons for what you think about players before you're actually prompted and give more solid opinions. (As in, don't do one liners like, "X bugs me fsr" and leave it at that).

scorri: Try to exist more. Your D2 was better when it came to opinions and scum hunting, but your D1 felt a bit weak as was your presence in the game.

Prims: Aside from Paper I feel that your reads were kind of "off", but I can't really fault his play too much. I'd suggest posting more opinions instead of one-liners that don't really add to the game (which is something that can go for some other players as well).

Refa: Less walls of text please. I think he did all right scum hunting and explaining WHY he didn't like people doing what they were doing. I think he just needed a better scumdar this game. Also, be sure you can step back and look at your case with a detached view. I feel that at times you can be a bit … well, forceful, when you're trying to argue your cases and people who argue against your cases, and I think you should tone it down a bit.

Shinori: Did all right this game, although the Marth case based on his role PMs was bad. You wouldn't have known how SB's role against Marth would've worked, so it seemed to me like you were making assumptions about how other people's roles worked to make a case that someone was scum. Screwed over in LYLO.

Polydeuces: NEVER THROW DOWN A VOTE IN LYLO WITHOUT 100% CERTAINTY THAT SOMEONE IS SCUM. Confirmed town doesn't mean that your reads are automatically right. And just try to be more consistent and don't coast on your role/being confirmed town.

Helios: Who

Kaoz: Dazzled everyone with his existence and was the last man standing. Didn't post a lot, but what he did have was solid enough to keep people from suspecting him.

[Baldrick]

I demand a proper postgame.