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Improving the Genealogy Translation Patch


irtikliwT
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There seems to be a glitch at Chapter 10. If you attack Hilda with Serlis/Celice, a random villager sprite shows up in the battle conversation and the speech is different. Forgot to take a screenshot and record the convo, but it's there, apparently.

Here's almost the entire glitch, screencapped at points where the text pauses itself.

The conversation played is most of the closing conversation of Chapter 1 between Batou and Sigurd, cutting off just a small sliver of the beginning. I've by no means thoroughly tested it (just with Serlis, Phee and Tinny), but Serlis is the only one who triggers it. That something like this is even happening is interesting given how unique boss conversations happen outside the battle screen (speaking of, the only one associated with Ch10!Hilda - that with Tinny - works just fine).

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POSIX stuff

you should make something gcc-compatible for all of us here who are less willing to figure out new ways to build files

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It can use gcc? The configure stuff is supposed to deal with figuring out whether it should use gcc or cc or whatever and so on as far as I understand it.

checkingforgcc.png

Probably worth noting that while testing this I discovered that the FE4D program isn't compiling properly under SUA, and this breaks the whole sequence if you use make/gmake all. FE4D is just the dumper which was provided with the suite, and I already had my own at the time so I don't need it so I haven't bothered looking into it.

Plain make/gmake ips is enough to get everything set up with a sequence that doesn't touch FE4D.

Edited by irtikliwT
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  • 2 weeks later...



An error I found from 0.87f, however I didn't see it addressed and it wasn't on your list of things you fixed. Edited by Wood
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I think there was a typo at the end of Chapter 4 dialogue. One of Sigurd's lines is "This blah blah blah..." but I think it's supposed to read "This is blah blah blah..."

First time through the game, so I'm really enjoying this patch.

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Twilkitri, I'm dropping by your topic to tell you two things.

First, I'm glad to see you working on the patch again, and while I do not approve of the Celice/Serlis change, all the work you did so far is awesome. Keep up the good work!

Second, if you ever need translations on various parts of the Ending that aren't covered by what had been translated so far by Summerwolf or me, by all means contact me and provide me with the scripts you need a translation of: I'll be glad to help you.

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  • 1 month later...

This WILL support save files from FE4 ROMs with the previous patch, right? :D

If not, is there a way I can salvage my data? DDDD8

All save files and save states are completely interchangeable between past patches and even the unpatched version. There won't be any problems with your old save files.

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  • 2 months later...

I don't want to necropost, but this is the only good place to put this.

Irtikliwt, I've been playing through this gem again, and I found two errors in the script, both at the beginning of chapter 2. In the first screenshot, Sigurd says "I can't get you involved it this," instead of "in this." In the second, Eve says "in good conscious." The proper expression is "in good conscience."

I don't know when you plan to update the patch next, but I just wanted to alert you to these so you could include them in your future changes.

post-2664-010289000 1347045002_thumb.jpg

post-2664-002755700 1347045010_thumb.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just stumbled across this after it got bumped. Looks interesting, and might make me give FE4 another playthrough. Something caught my eye, though:

- Corrected a malingering use of Yurius (to Julius) in dialogue.

Does this mean that the character is called 'Julius' or 'Yurius' within the patch? This is something that's always bugged me. In most discussions on forums like this, I see people call him 'Yurius', and by extension his sister is 'Yuria'. Now, I know very little about Japanese, but just by cursory inspection I can't help but feel like those are wrong somehow, and that they should actually be 'Julius' and 'Julia', despite what the literal translation might be. It seems more logical that if the phonetic is very close to an English name, that that English name would be the intended one. Also, while I would assume that 'Yuria' is pronounced with the same intonation as 'Julia', it is still quite close to the English word 'urea', which has unfortunate implications (but that's merely an aesthetic thing).

But who knows, I may be completely out to lunch on this one.

On another note, this may be a bit late but with regards to the whole Forrest/Ranger/Hero/Swordfighter/whatever thing, what are the closest translations of the sword-wielding classes in Gaiden (Alm's classes + the 'Mercenary' chain), and how similar are they to the FE4 classes in question?

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Does this mean that the character is called 'Julius' or 'Yurius' within the patch? This is something that's always bugged me. In most discussions on forums like this, I see people call him 'Yurius', and by extension his sister is 'Yuria'. Now, I know very little about Japanese, but just by cursory inspection I can't help but feel like those are wrong somehow, and that they should actually be 'Julius' and 'Julia', despite what the literal translation might be. It seems more logical that if the phonetic is very close to an English name, that that English name would be the intended one. Also, while I would assume that 'Yuria' is pronounced with the same intonation as 'Julia', it is still quite close to the English word 'urea', which has unfortunate implications (but that's merely an aesthetic thing).

But who knows, I may be completely out to lunch on this one.

The patch goes with "Julius" and "Julia". As far as I can tell, an earlier version of the patch from years ago and before Twilkitri's work on it used "Yurius" and "Yuria". A later version from there did change it to "Julius", which required going over the script and finding and correcting every instance of "Yurius"; script editors are only human, however, so occasionally single instances of the older names slip through the cracks and persist in the newer patches. That was the case here: a single use of "Yurius" was still in there somewhere, which was finally found and fixed with this revision.

On another note, this may be a bit late but with regards to the whole Forrest/Ranger/Hero/Swordfighter/whatever thing, what are the closest translations of the sword-wielding classes in Gaiden (Alm's classes + the 'Mercenary' chain), and how similar are they to the FE4 classes in question?

Alm's classes are Fighter -> Hero. The normal FE2 sword class chain is Mercenary -> Myrmidon -> Demon Fighter (though the name of the third-tier one is very much open to interpretation, pretty much everyone calls it "Demon Fighter"). FE4's chain is a split one: Myrmidon -> Swordmaster or Forrest. As to similarities, not really; FE2's chain is pretty much the Mercenary chain as it exists in earlier and later games, with the addition of high Resistance. Meanwhile, FE4's Myrmidon/Swordfighter strikes me as a bit of a combination of the later separate Mercenary and Myrmidon classes, generally depending on the individual character (ie Ira is more of a Myrmidon, while Holyn is more of a Mercenary). The Swordmaster is just the same as it is in later games, whereas the Forrest is pretty much a Hero without axes. Meanwhile, "Ranger" is just what FE8 called the Forrest Knight (dual sword/bow in FE8, sword-only here).

Basically, if you're looking to compare the FE4 sword classes to anything, you're better served looking later in the series than to FE2.

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Greetings.

Could someone please send me the Japanese script, if it's not too much trouble?

I'd like to read it for a bit, but I wasn't able to extract it from the game.

I don't mind making a minor contribution to the translations or error correcting if someone is willing to send me the script.

Edited by Mracy
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  • 2 weeks later...

The patch goes with "Julius" and "Julia". As far as I can tell, an earlier version of the patch from years ago and before Twilkitri's work on it used "Yurius" and "Yuria". A later version from there did change it to "Julius", which required going over the script and finding and correcting every instance of "Yurius"; script editors are only human, however, so occasionally single instances of the older names slip through the cracks and persist in the newer patches. That was the case here: a single use of "Yurius" was still in there somewhere, which was finally found and fixed with this revision.

Alm's classes are Fighter -> Hero. The normal FE2 sword class chain is Mercenary -> Myrmidon -> Demon Fighter (though the name of the third-tier one is very much open to interpretation, pretty much everyone calls it "Demon Fighter"). FE4's chain is a split one: Myrmidon -> Swordmaster or Forrest. As to similarities, not really; FE2's chain is pretty much the Mercenary chain as it exists in earlier and later games, with the addition of high Resistance. Meanwhile, FE4's Myrmidon/Swordfighter strikes me as a bit of a combination of the later separate Mercenary and Myrmidon classes, generally depending on the individual character (ie Ira is more of a Myrmidon, while Holyn is more of a Mercenary). The Swordmaster is just the same as it is in later games, whereas the Forrest is pretty much a Hero without axes. Meanwhile, "Ranger" is just what FE8 called the Forrest Knight (dual sword/bow in FE8, sword-only here).

Basically, if you're looking to compare the FE4 sword classes to anything, you're better served looking later in the series than to FE2.

Several things are wrong with changing Yurius (the official translation from FE Museum) to Julius. I have never seen Yurius translated as Julius in anything from IS. Same with Yuria, that is how they translated her name. Unless FE 13 changes it, I see no reason to mess with the official names that Nintendo of Japan has posted on their site Fire Emblem World (the NoA stuff is just temporary given they haven't officially translated anything to do with FE4 yet). I believe that they are also the exact same names as the Trading card game and Treasure.

And yes ,Celis is the official translation on the FE World page (and in just about every FE book I can think of).

Then again, people have trouble with Lynn being called Leen officially, and Ares being called Aless (to be fair, they changed Mars' official name to Marth when the TCG came out....still have no clue why). FE Museum for FE4 can be found here

I think I will stick with the old partial translation patch, for I don't like most of the changes made (the classes and skill are different then the newer games, so even if they share the same kana, I can't see Prayer being Miracle (works different), and Shooting star/Meteor sword (Ryuuseiken) works different then Astra). I also see no reason to change most of the classes to the GBA names....most didn't make sense in the GBA and the FE9/10 and 12 names 'fixed' some (but alas not all) of those odd issues.

oh and for the people asking about the various 'thief' style classes, there are many odd class names and groups in the old FE games, including Dandelion....(I am not joking, it's a type of bandit group) I can't remember all of them, but there may be a straight up bandit class (I know there is a pirate, Orgahil Pirate, mountain thief, dandelion (could be FE5), Purple Dragon Mountain Bandit (think this one is FE5 but it is a silly name), thief, barbarian, hunter and thief fighter classes). What is really odd is that they use katakana (パイレーツ) for the pirate class, but some of the groups that have pirate in then name use kanji (オーガヒルの海賊 = Orgahil Pirate).

The other issue, is that if you start changing the class names, the FE5 stuff will be very odd, if not off because of it (there are classes in FE5 that are not in FE4: Archer, Mercenary, Dragon and Pegasus riders, soldier and berserker, though there may be more). Also, there is the 4 physical weapon Armor type classes though the generic Armor class is the lance wielding one in FE4 and the same holds true for knights, with Social Knight being the the 'multi' weapon knight (Free knight being the sword guy).

Oh, before I forget, Riziah (or however you want to romaniz it) is not Nosferatu (that was a weird localization for FE9, for the actual Nosferatu was also translated as Nosferatu in FE10). Given that they are 2 different (yet similar) spells (Riziah being the light version and Nosferatu always being the dark version), it is probably best to not confuse people with calling it Nosferatu like FE9 did.

too bad it is too much work to have 2 different version (one with the 'old' naming convention and one with the new).

I keep hoping that they will bring out the downloadable FE4 here for the Wii.....

Edited by Aquantis
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Several things are wrong with changing Yurius (the official translation from FE Museum) to Julius. I have never seen Yurius translated as Julius in anything from IS. Same with Yuria, that is how they translated her name. Unless FE 13 changes it, I see no reason to mess with the official names that Nintendo of Japan has posted on their site Fire Emblem World (the NoA stuff is just temporary given they haven't officially translated anything to do with FE4 yet). I believe that they are also the exact same names as the Trading card game and Treasure.

Yulia/Yuria IS how you pronounce Julia in other languages. It's the same name.

Unless you didn't know that and Katakana transcription is messy and it HAS been accepted just like how names like "Jonah" and others that start with J use the "y" sounds in katakana because that's how the foreign word was borrowed.

Except in English, it's simply Julia. It's a correct translation.

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Several things are wrong with changing Yurius (the official translation from FE Museum) to Julius. I have never seen Yurius translated as Julius in anything from IS. Same with Yuria, that is how they translated her name. Unless FE 13 changes it, I see no reason to mess with the official names that Nintendo of Japan has posted on their site Fire Emblem World (the NoA stuff is just temporary given they haven't officially translated anything to do with FE4 yet). I believe that they are also the exact same names as the Trading card game and Treasure.

And yes ,Celis is the official translation on the FE World page (and in just about every FE book I can think of).

Then again, people have trouble with Lynn being called Leen officially, and Ares being called Aless (to be fair, they changed Mars' official name to Marth when the TCG came out....still have no clue why). FE Museum for FE4 can be found here

Ah, Intelligent Systems, purveyors of such fine official Romanizations as "Siglud", "Eliwod", "Ralf", "Conomool", "Jeik" and "Minerba".

Most of the time, I'm inclined to agree - if the Japanese version's official Romanization is good, no point changing it. The thing is, though, "Yurius" and "Yuria" REALLY aren't examples of good Romanization, and it's rather obvious that they're "meant" (loaded word, I know) to be the western names Julius and Julia, which are typically rendered in Japanese under these names. Of course, sometimes the inverse happens - I for one personally feel that "Phee" (official Romanization) would make more sense than "Fee" (what the fan translation goes with), but whatever.

That's the thing with translation: if you're going to blindly follow what the original version has to say, you're gonna have a bad time. Some things which work in Japanese simply do not work in the context of English, while others carry over just fine. Interpretation and adaptation are vital skills in translation efforts of any kind. Of course, there's a fine line between this sensible practice and just completely disregarding the original work and fucking it over in the process.

Either way, it's already been established that once the PAL English version of FE13 hits, this fan translation will be adopting whatever it has to say on the Jugdral character and holy weapon names used in it.

(also last I checked pretty much every Japanese source I can think of, particularly modern ones like Treasure and the websites, romanizes it as "Celice", not "Celis"; that's the entire reason almost everyone calls him Celice in the first place. as someone comparatively new to FE4, I admit I'm entirely unfamiliar with any point in time before that, but I take it either some earlier sources or the earlier fandom did indeed call him Celis or Selis?)

I think I will stick with the old partial translation patch, for I don't like most of the changes made

As much as I don't quite agree with your reasoning, that's definitely fair enough. With the possible exception of bugs of varying levels of severity in older versions of the patch, nobody's forcing you to pick up this one.

(the classes and skill are different then the newer games, so even if they share the same kana, I can't see Prayer being Miracle (works different), and Shooting star/Meteor sword (Ryuuseiken) works different then Astra). I also see no reason to change most of the classes to the GBA names....most didn't make sense in the GBA and the FE9/10 and 12 names 'fixed' some (but alas not all) of those odd issues.

The variations between SNES!Astra and Tellius!Astra are minor at best; at their core they're always pretty much the same thing (five consecutive strikes), and it's only the minor details which vary (can you critical during it? does it deal full damage per strike?), and the same goes for Sol and Luna. The two incarnations of Miracle are a more reasonable case of arguably being different things.

On the other hand, your position here is mildly contradictory of your earlier position of adhering to what the Japanese version material has to say on names. Here, the Japanese versions are calling them by the same name and typically associate them with the same imagery, so it's reasonable for English translations to be similarly consistent with them nameways.

That said, again I think you kind of have a point here, if in a different way: I really do wish Intelligent Systems was more consistent with its names relative to functionality of the named subject. Though, I'm more concerned about the clusterfuck that is mounted sword/bow classes (Horseman, Ranger/Forrest Knight, Bow Knight).

The other issue, is that if you start changing the class names, the FE5 stuff will be very odd, if not off because of it (there are classes in FE5 that are not in FE4: Archer, Mercenary, Dragon and Pegasus riders, soldier and berserker, though there may be more). Also, there is the 4 physical weapon Armor type classes though the generic Armor class is the lance wielding one in FE4 and the same holds true for knights, with Social Knight being the the 'multi' weapon knight (Free knight being the sword guy).

It's honestly not as confusing as you make it out to be. The Bow Fighter and Archer are almost the same things and having them split into two different classes was a pretty retarded idea in the first place, so there's no harm in calling both "Archer" in fan translation (it's not like other classes have inconsistent sprites among themselves, eg Mage). The Pegasus Rider doesn't interfere with anything in FE4's translation, Soldiers and Berserkers are pretty much the same thing in FE5 and all subsequent games with no real changes in both languages, and the Dragon Rider already exists as a separate enemy-only class in FE4. With the exception of the Lance Armor replacing the Armor Knight in FE5 as the lance-specialist armoured class, the mounted and armoured situations are pretty much entirely identical between the two, and any attempts to apply English names to the classes (eg Social Knight -> Cavalier) won't create any clashes. The only real rough patch here is the Mercenary, but the problems there aren't the fault of non-Japanese versions.

At any rate, the FE5 translation isn't Twilkitri's domain. Assuming the efforts to fix/redo it ever get off the ground, it's up to them whether or not they want to pay attention to this translation's lead.

Oh, before I forget, Riziah (or however you want to romaniz it) is not Nosferatu (that was a weird localization for FE9, for the actual Nosferatu was also translated as Nosferatu in FE10). Given that they are 2 different (yet similar) spells (Riziah being the light version and Nosferatu always being the dark version), it is probably best to not confuse people with calling it Nosferatu like FE9 did.

Nope, sorry. What's known as "Resire" in Japanese has always been translated as "Nosferatu" in English versions. The Japanese Resire has been both light magic (FE3, 4, 5, 9, 10, 12) and dark magic (FE6, 7, 8, 13) at different points in the franchise, and has been consistently translated as "Nosferatu" (pending FE13's English release). The Japanese versions of the GBA trilogy did have a dark spell called "Nosferatu", which was completely unrelated and was translated as "Fenrir" (separate from the siege tome of the same name in FE4, 5 and 10, which was called Fenrir in all languages). I certainly won't deny that a light spell called Nosferatu is pretty weird, though.

I keep hoping that they will bring out the downloadable FE4 here for the Wii.....

So do I, but the thing is, odds are that any official English release of the game will likely be even more edited with unusual names than the fan translation is. Comparatively speaking the fan translation is actually rather conservative about all of this; with the exception of names provided by later installments of the series (classes, weapons, no characters aside from Serlis and Naga), pretty much everything is fairly easily recognisable as what the Japanese version says, even when the Japanese name is arguably dubious in the context of an English-language work (Tinny? I bet that one's gonna go the way of Asseray or Wayu should FE4 ever be officially translated).

tl;dr I make no sense at all and am terrible at arguing, and you'll probably have a better day if you disregard my disjointed rebuttals and ramblings

Edited by Rhinocerocket
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Nope, sorry. What's known as "Resire" in Japanese has always been translated as "Nosferatu" in English versions. The Japanese Resire has been both light magic (FE3, 4, 5, 9, 10, 12) and dark magic (FE6, 7, 8, 13) at different points in the franchise, and has been consistently translated as "Nosferatu" (pending FE13's English release). The Japanese versions of the GBA trilogy did have a dark spell called "Nosferatu", which was completely unrelated and was translated as "Fenrir" (separate from the siege tome of the same name in FE4, 5 and 10, which was called Fenrir in all languages). I certainly won't deny that a light spell called Nosferatu is pretty weird, though.

So do I, but the thing is, odds are that any official English release of the game will likely be even more edited with unusual names than the fan translation is. Comparatively speaking the fan translation is actually rather conservative about all of this; with the exception of names provided by later installments of the series (classes, weapons, no characters aside from Serlis and Naga), pretty much everything is fairly easily recognisable as what the Japanese version says, even when the Japanese name is arguably dubious in the context of an English-language work (Tinny? I bet that one's gonna go the way of Asseray or Wayu should FE4 ever be officially translated).

tl;dr I make no sense at all and am terrible at arguing, and you'll probably have a better day if you disregard my disjointed rebuttals and ramblings

I haven't played all the games yet, so I didn't realize that they have translated it both ways (I knew they renamed Nosferatu in the GBA games, but I didn't know to what).

I guess the translations for this game are not as confusing as some of the TCG ones then (which is what I have been working on). I have to translate those directly, otherwise things get really confusing and so I assumed due the bad habit of IS on changing their classes, that the same would hold true between the games (I haven't gotten very far in FE5, but I know of the extra classes).

Really, I think you are doing a good job, just the new class names will confuse me since they don't always get translated the same by NoA for each game.

I just figured I'd let you know about the FE Museum for the names that don't have a game in English yet. The big problem I have with Yurius and Yuria, is that in half the western countries, Julius is pronounced Yurius, but in the others, it's pronounced Julius. So to avoid the confusion, Yurius works (Johan as far as I know is always pronounced Yohan, so it's not a problem with that one).

oh and if you want a horrid example of the offical romanized names, try Eyrios and Eyvel (should be if you spell it correctly, Helios and Aoibel...though I doubt anyone who doesn't know Gallic would get the right pronunciation of Aoibel), so I know what...unusual names they end up with using their very odd rominization of the names. I just figured, they exists, so might as well use them. (though some that are obviously wrong, even looking at the kana like Sigurd's name, I can see tweaking it a bit).

I hope I wasn't too negative, I was just trying to point out things to help, not hinder. I typed my other post sometime after 4am, so I may have miss-types or not thought it all through.

I almost forget, the difference between the FE4 skill and the FE9/10 Astra is that A) if you have a hero weapon equipped, Shooting star can give you 10 attacks, not 5 (not the case in FE9/10), all attacks are at full damage (I know that FE9's are not, I'm nor sure on 10's), and the attacks can be critical hits in 4. - so yes it works differently.

come to think Nihil (what was called alertness. lit translation = abandonment) also works differently (one negates criticals, the other doesn't), but I can see using Nihil just to avoid confusion and it is close.

Moonlight sword negates all defense, I don't know if Luna does (also Moonlight sword can crit)

Edited by Aquantis
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