If You Had To Get The Holy Weapons Again

[Jotari]

Seliph, unlike the other units, has to earn his Holy Weapon in the Second Gen. Everyone else has to get them through magical space time distorting inheritance. Which is kind of strange plotwise, you'd imagine the villains would want to keep their hands on these uber powerful weapons. So if the Holy Weapons weren't inherited, where do you think in the plot characters could or should get them?

I believe I heard Levin was going to appear on the field at some point to give Holsety to his kid so that's an easy one, question would be when in the plot would be most appropriate for him to do it and the most balanced place in terms of gameplay. It would make sense plotwise if Faval was recruited with his since the bad guys were kind of using him for that purpose, of the child units he's also the only Holy Weapon user who is set apart from Seliph and Altena. That would only really leave the Valkyrie staff (though personally I think you should be able to use Mjlonir, Valflame and Helswath). Anyway, it's just a few ideas I've been throwing around in my head. Does anyone else have any thoughts on the subject?

[Soledai]

I'm onboard with the idea of getting Swanchika, because it's great. Beat Brian and get it, why not?

But also don't forget Shanan had to earn his holy weapon, albeit in a different way, but still he had to earn it. If there was no Patty/Daisy, it's implied he was prepared to fight for it, or steal it back at least.

Oh, and Julia had to more or less earn hers too.

Falaflame and Mjolnir on the other hand, I think those are fine as enemy exclusive, I mean, we have these terrific weapons, why not the enemy too?

Though in Mjolnir's case, if we could get it, I would prefer getting it in the vein of getting Ishtar too, at least as an NPC or some such..

If Levin was to really give his son Holsety, I say during chapter 10, It seems like a good time in my opinion, since you see a modicum of what the the child hunting is like(though the game paints it pretty well I think), what with rescuing those children and all that, and Levin could deem it a good time, or something along those lines.

And the Valkyrie staff... maybe it was given to the user by Hannibal, maybe?

[bookofholsety]

forseti is pretty feasible as things stand; obviously lewyn is still alive, fe5 makes clear that he regularly travelled around before joining up with seliph properly, and in chapter 10 lewyn!leen says this:

Y’know, I think you’re right. All my life, even when I was little, I’ve always felt like someone’s been watching over me... That has to be Dad... I just know it! But why... If he’s still alive like this, why won’t he come out to see me?! I’ve been waiting all my life for him... I’m... I’m so lonely without him...

this strongly suggests that lewyn would occasionally come to keep an eye on his kids, whoever they are, so it'd make sense if he just straight-up left forseti with them while completely avoiding being noticed long before the start of chapter 6

not sure about all the others, though

Edited December 17, 2014 by bookofholsety

[Refa]

Presumably Valkyrie isn't enough of a threat for the forces of evil to make an active effort to take it from Corple (especially since he's allied with the enemy anyways). Not so sure about the other users.

[BrightBow]

The one weapon that always confused me is the Mistoltin. There is just no way that this weapon could have ended up in Aless hands. Sure, somebody from Sigurd's army could have tried to track down Eltoshan's son. But if he ever meet one of his followers, it's unlikely for him to hate Sigurd like he does since they would have explained to him what was going on back then.

I think Aless shouldn't have started with the sword but should instead have gotten it from Nanna in their conversation in chapter 8. It would make sense for Nanna to have it since the sword should have been taken by Sigurd's army after Eltoshan's death and would have consequently ended up in the hands of Lachesis. And Lachesis had no reason to take the sword with her when she left the others to search for Delmud.

In fact, in that conversation Nanna actually does give something to Aless that she inherited from her mother so that she would hand it over to him. We don't know what it is besides the fact that it instantly convinces Aless that Sigurd wasn't the enemy of his father.

Edited December 17, 2014 by BrightBow

[Jotari]

forseti is pretty feasible as things stand; obviously lewyn is still alive, fe5 makes clear that he regularly travelled around before joining up with seliph properly, and in chapter 10 lewyn!leen says this:

this strongly suggests that lewyn would occasionally come to keep an eye on his kids, whoever they are, so it'd make sense if he just straight-up left forseti with them while completely avoiding being noticed long before the start of chapter 6

not sure about all the others, though

Well considering the fact that Lewyn is Holsety at this point, he might not be too comfortable giving up the source of his power until it actually seems like the kids have a chance of success. At least if we want to get Holsety later in the game. By the current logic it does make sense for one of them to have it, Ced even has it in Thracia for what its worth.

Presumably Valkyrie isn't enough of a threat for the forces of evil to make an active effort to take it from Corple (especially since he's allied with the enemy anyways). Not so sure about the other users.

Corple is allied with Thracia who is only very tangentally connected to the empire. Really Thraia is the empire's biggest enemy, they should have been doubly interested in getting the Valkyrie Staff off them. Corple also isn't the only one who can use the Valkyrie Staff.

The one weapon that always confused me is the Mistoltin. There is just no way that this weapon could have ended up in Aless hands. Sure, somebody from Sigurd's army could have tried to track down Eltoshan's son. But if he ever meet one of his followers, it's unlikely for him to hate Sigurd like he does since they would have explained to him what was going on back then.

I think Aless shouldn't have started with the sword but should instead have gotten it from Nanna in their conversation in chapter 8. It would make sense for Nanna to have it since the sword should have been taken by Sigurd's army after Eltoshan's death and would have consequently ended up in the hands of Lachesis. And Lachesis had no reason to take the sword with her when she left the others to search for Delmud.

In fact, in that conversation Nanna actually does give something to Aless that she inherited from her mother so that she would hand it over to him. We don't know what it is besides the fact that it instantly convinces Aless that Sigurd wasn't the enemy of his father.

Sigurd's army doesn't necessarily have to have Mistoltin. Remember a common cause of his death is returning to get his head lopped off, in which case he would have taken it with him. And in the case where he did die at Sigurd's hand, showing his son his father's sword that was taken from his dead body isn't really the best thing to convince you you're the good guys. I suppose he could, expecting his death, have given it to Lachesis along with the Earth Sword. Actually what might be a good idea would be for you to have to choose between the Earth Sword or Mistoltin. If Eltoshan retreats and gets killed then the Mistoltin is lost to the enemy, but if he is killed by Sigurd and you miss out on the Earth Sword, Nanna gives it to Aless in the second generation. On paper Mistoltin is way better but you would be getting the Earth Sword for much longer with both generations in mind.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Jotari

[bookofholsety]

Well considering the fact that Lewyn is Holsety at this point, he might not be too comfortable giving up the source of his power until it actually seems like the kids have a chance of success. At least if we want to get Holsety later in the game. By the current logic it does make sense for one of them to have it, Ced even has it in Thracia for what its worth.

don't forget that DIVINE CHESSMASTERY is kind of lewyn's thing by this point. he knows full well that blowing shit up with forseti is no longer his job, but rather his son's; if august's work for him is anything to go by, he's now just the guy who orchestrates everything and makes sure the right people go to the right places and do the right things, all to contribute to the empire's downfall. and in terms of that picture, it'd be clear to him that his son has far more use for forseti (well, the physical tome at least) than he does

honestly, "lewyn did it" might be an acceptable justification for most of them, except perhaps mystletainn

Edited December 17, 2014 by bookofholsety

[Cymbalina's Revenge]

don't forget that DIVINE CHESSMASTERY is kind of lewyn's thing by this point. he knows full well that blowing shit up with forseti is no longer his job, but rather his son's; if august's work for him is anything to go by, he's now just the guy who orchestrates everything and makes sure the right people go to the right places and do the right things, all to contribute to the empire's downfall. and in terms of that picture, it'd be clear to him that his son has far more use for forseti (well, the physical tome at least) than he does

honestly, "lewyn did it" might be an acceptable justification for most of them, except perhaps mystletainn

I think the preponderance of evidence suggests that Raquesis delivered Mystletainn to little Ares before Granhye told her to GTFO and shut the door in her face. Kaga's own thoughts on the matter certainly go that way even if that doesn't make it game canon.

As for Faval, though, I don't think we need Lewyn's involvement either

1) Faval remembers his mother, Patty does not. This suggests Faval was 3-5 when Briggid disappeared-- possibly placing her disappearance well after the Belhalla Surprise.

2) When Briggid does "die" she then washes up on the eastern coast of the Thracia peninsula and her kids wind up in Conote. This might indicate that Briggid 'n' kids were in Northern Thracia at the time they parted ways.

3) Based on 1 + 2, it's possible that Briggid left Faval and Patty in some safe place and gave Faval the Yewfelle for safekeeping.

[quasimopho13]

At least in the Oosawa manga, Chagal has the knights from Sivail deliver it back to Nodion. He told his knights to tell Nodion that Eltoshan died in battle, probably to cover up his corruption in executing Elto. Grahnya keeps it after that. So that's another possible explanation. If Eltoshan died against Sigurd's army, it's likely that Lacheis picked up the Mystletainn upon Elto's death and gave it to Grahnya when they both took refuge in Leonster after the Balhara massacre. Lacheis probably didn't go back to Nodion because Sigurd's army retreated from Augustria when the Granbell army arrived. Although, I guess Lacheis could have returned to Nodion during the 17 year time skip.

Edited December 17, 2014 by quasimopho13

[Cymbalina's Revenge]

At least in the Oosawa manga, Chagal has the knights from Sivail deliver it back to Nodion. He told his knights to tell Nodion that Eltoshan died in battle, probably to cover up his corruption in executing Elto. Grahnya keeps it after that. So that's another possible explanation. If Eltoshan died against Sigurd's army, it's likely that Lacheis picked up the Mystletainn upon Elto's death and gave it to Grahnya when they both took refuge in Leonster after the Balhara massacre. Lacheis probably didn't go back to Nodion because Sigurd's army retreated from Augustria when the Granbell army arrived. Although, I guess Lacheis could have returned to Nodion during the 17 year time skip.

Everything points to Raquesis going to Leonster to deliver the sword to Ares and Grahnye after all the bad stuff happened. Looks like Grahnye was happy to take the sword but did not want any explanations of how Sigurd was innocent in Eldigan's demise.

[quasimopho13]

Unless the sword was sent to Nodion upon Elto's execution. Then Grahnye would've had it instead of Lacheis.

[Guy Starwind]

Just on a side note: I always liked that the bad guys had exclusive holy weapons

[Sikker]

I always just assumed Arvis gave the weapons to the kids because he thought he would be a good emperor, so he didn't fear any rebellions. He thought the people would be happy. It could even benefit him, Faval almost ends up fighting for him with Ichival. Seliph is an exception because he is the rightful emperor, so to Arvis he is the only one with a legit reason to rebel so that's why doesn't give the Tyrfing back right away. Maybe he found out Shanan hangs out with Seliph and that's why he kept Balmung from him.

The thing about Arvis is, he's willing to do evil things to accomplish his goals, but not any more then neccesary. So betraying and murdering a bunch of people is fine but stealing their weapons just cus he can is something he wouldn't do.

Also, when Ethlyn goes to the desert in chapter 5 she doesn't have her weapons with her. She left them in Leonster so that's why Leif gets them.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Sikker

[sirmola]

It is also possible that claude survived belhala, given that a priest in fe5 states that he is "the eyes of claude", which seems to imply that claude needs eyes (ie: that he is alive but blind). If he survived and held onto the valkerie staff, then he probably aranged for it to be given to his son.

As for mistotlin, kaga gave possible stories that might have been written into the third part of the game had it been produced, and this is one of them:

Nanna (0)

The pregnant Lachesis (19) entrusted Delmud to Oifey and returned to her parent’s home in North Thracia to protect Eltshan’s wife and son. She received a cold welcome from Eltshan’s wife (who despised Sigurd and Lachesis) and so left the Demon Blade Mistolteen in her hands, before leaving. Afterwards, the Empire’s eyes were concentrated at Tirnanogue, so Lachesis instead escaped to Fin’s location. She gave birth to Nanna in the following year and raised her together with Fin. When Nanna was 8 years old, Lachesis wished to reunite with Delmud at Tirnanogue. Despite Fin’s strong warning, Lachesis made her decision and afterwards there was no news of her.

Later, Agustria was conquered and the prison camp at Silvail was liberated. Many children were held here, by order of the Loputo Sect, but they were cared for by a woman who they adored like their own mother (she had also been taken prisoner by the empire). As the commander of Agustria’s liberation army, Delmud reunited with his mother here. Lachesis briefly noticed it at a glance, perhaps he reminded her of Beowolf? Afterwards, Lachesis also happily reunited with Nanna and Aless.

THat is probably not cannon(the source states that only some of the information given would have been true on any given playthrough), but it still provides a probable explanation for how aless got mistotlin.

Source: http://serenesforest.net/general/designers-notes/holy-war/shouzou-kagas-comments/

Edited December 22, 2014 by sirmola

[bottlegnomes]

It is also possible that claude survived belhala, given that a priest in fe5 states that he is "the eyes of claude", which seems to imply that claude needs eyes (ie: that he is alive but blind). If he survived and held onto the valkerie staff, then he probably aranged for it to be given to his son.

I don't think they meant eyes in that sense. I think they meant eyes as in someone to gather information for him and keep watch on the goings on in the world while he was doing other stuff. I'm assuming you're talking about Sleuf, correct?

Edited December 22, 2014 by bottlegnomes

[sirmola]

I don't think they meant eyes in that sense. I think they meant eyes as in someone to gather information for him and keep watch on the goings on in the world while he was doing other stuff. I'm assuming you're talking about Sleuf, correct?

I thought of that too(and honostly, it seems more likely). the reason that i suggested blindness was another one of those blurbs:

Leen (1)

Sylvia (aged 18) escaped to a monastery at Darna, as per Claude’s recommendation. After leaving Leen behind, she left and wandered around in search of Claude. Three years later, she reunited with Claude, but he had tragically changed. Sylvia became his eyes and his limbs, watching the changing times and keeping an eye on their children. As for Corple, he was born when Sylvia was 23 years old. Afterwards, Leen married Aless and become the Queen of Agustria, while Corple became the head of Edda. Two years later, they finally reunited with Sylvia (aged 38). However, Claude perished after his role ended. Later, his name was carved into the relief at the altar of the 26 saints.

And yes, i am talking about sleuf

[Jotari]

It is also possible that claude survived belhala, given that a priest in fe5 states that he is "the eyes of claude", which seems to imply that claude needs eyes (ie: that he is alive but blind). If he survived and held onto the valkerie staff, then he probably aranged for it to be given to his son.

As for mistotlin, kaga gave possible stories that might have been written into the third part of the game had it been produced, and this is one of them:

THat is probably not cannon(the source states that only some of the information given would have been true on any given playthrough), but it still provides a probable explanation for how aless got mistotlin.

Source: http://serenesforest.net/general/designers-notes/holy-war/shouzou-kagas-comments/

Of course that beggars the question, if Claude was alive with Valkyrie working, why didn't he use it to revive Sigurd? stupid plot breaking revival staves

[bookofholsety]

It is also possible that claude survived belhala, given that a priest in fe5 states that he is "the eyes of claude", which seems to imply that claude needs eyes (ie: that he is alive but blind). If he survived and held onto the valkerie staff, then he probably aranged for it to be given to his son.

sleuf also makes it abundantly clear that claude is, in fact, 100% dead. the claim that he's the "eyes of claude"? that comes from him praying to commune with claude's dead spirit

[Jotari]

sleuf also makes it abundantly clear that claude is, in fact, 100% dead. the claim that he's the "eyes of claude"? that comes from him praying to commune with claude's dead spirit

Though given Sleuf and Claude's respective ages, it seems unlikely they would have known each other before the Balharaa Massacre, in which case, why would he pray to, and manage to contact beyond the grave of some random Bishop? Purely because he was allied with Sigurd? Or was Claude a super big deal and pretty much the pope when he died?It's possible Claude could have both survived but died by the time Thracia happens. Or Sleuf could be related to Claude by blood beyond just both being priests.

[Baldrick]

Claude is the lord of Edda (Holey Holepunch, Celice!), a martyr, and a Major Blagi Blood carrier. iirc Sleuf is described as a priest of Blagi, which would make it logical for him to pray to Claude even if he never knew him.

[bookofholsety]

Though given Sleuf and Claude's respective ages, it seems unlikely they would have known each other before the Balharaa Massacre, in which case, why would he pray to, and manage to contact beyond the grave of some random Bishop? Purely because he was allied with Sigurd? Or was Claude a super big deal and pretty much the pope when he died?It's possible Claude could have both survived but died by the time Thracia happens. Or Sleuf could be related to Claude by blood beyond just both being priests.

they may not have known each other personally, but claude is far from just "some random bishop". even before his death his religious insight and opinions clearly held enough sway across grannvale to necessitate that reptor discredit him, and as far as the world at large knows, his death brought an end to saint bragi's bloodline. that, combined with him being a belhalla victim, is likely to catapult him into being a pretty significant figure

that said, it is a bit odd that it's claude that sleuf is getting his DIVINE REVELATIONS from claude and not bragi, but it's not exactly completely inexplicable and out of nowhere

Edited December 23, 2014 by bookofholsety

[Jotari]

So yeah, he was pretty much the pope. Still it seems odd to be able to contact the dead so easily without having a connection to them. We should have force ghost style appearances from all the important Blagi figures if it's that easy. I guess Claude could have been particularly powerful even for his blood line but it still seems odd to me. I think they just threw it in there to reference another character from Gen 1 Holy War.