H5 Tier list topic

[Dat Nick]

I believe dondon mentioned 6x

I mentioned 6x.

[Don Draper]

So we'll say Chapter 6x. Assuming an 8/0 Caeda that just changed to a Mage.

Caeda: 19 HP, 7 Atk (Fire), 14 AS, 5 Def, 3 Res

Archer 1s: She 2RKOs them. They 2RKO back

Archer 3s: She 2-3RKOs them. They 2RKO back

Pirate Irons: She 3RKOs them. They 2RKO back

Pirate Steels: She 3RKOs them. They O-2RKO back

Pirate Hands: She 3RKos them. They 2RKO back

Merc 1s: She 4RKOs them. They 2RKO back

Merc 3s: She 5RKOs them. They 2RKO back

Mages: She 3RKOs them. They 2RKO back

So the only enemies that don't attack back on player phase are enemies she 3-5RKOs (AKA the only enemies she should be fighting). Meanwhile, she runs an ORKO risk in this chapter. I still don't see how this is remotely good, unless you can find a High Tier that does worse in this chapter.

[dondon151]

The point with mage Shiida is that the player at some point has to accept some cost in the short term for profit in the long term. The player can also accept no cost in the short term for less profit in the long term by sticking with PK Shiida. There is probably some optimal point where the transition yields the greatest total profit.

[Dat Nick]

The point with mage Shiida is that the player at some point has to accept some cost in the short term for profit in the long term.

In case you still haven't been paying attention, there is no cost for Mage in C6x because the Wing spear is completely useless in that chapter. From there it's just another half chapter of being stuck at E Tomes.

Edited November 24, 2009 by laws b122

[dondon151]

In case you still haven't been paying attention, there is no cost for Mage in C6x because the Wing spear is completely useless in that chapter. From there it's just another half chapter of being stuck at E Tomes.

Of course there is a cost. There is no such thing as a free lunch. And you acknowledge that there is cost past chapter 6x.

Edited November 24, 2009 by dondon151

[Dat Nick]

Of course there is a cost

Sucking less is a cost?

And you acknowledge that there is cost past chapter 6x.

For a very brief moment? Yes.

[grandjackal]

Chapter 7 and 8 have mounts. If we're changing her to mage in 6x, we're swapping her right back into pegasi for these two chapters.

[Colonel M]

If IOS can at least prove units hit about Lv 16 by C11, I win.

[Rodykitty]

If IOS can at least prove units hit about Lv 16 by C11, I win.

Why aren't you proving this?

Edited November 24, 2009 by FE3 Player

[grandjackal]

If IOS can at least prove units hit about Lv 16 by C11, I win.

In fact, I can say quite safely that the appropriate level for that specific chapter would happen to be around 12-13.

[dondon151]

Sucking less is a cost?

There is a cost associated with everything. A basic economic principle.

[Don Draper]

I say otherwise. Here are ThunderMan's levels at the end of Chapter 10:

Notes on my Playthrough: Recruited Maria and Minerva. Lena reached lvl 20 so she gets the Master Seal.

Marth = Lvl 8.76

Shiida = Lvl 5.96

Cain = Lvl 13.59

Abel = Lvl 14.49

Ogma = Lvl 14.74

Barst = Lvl 15.07

Wolf = Lvl 6.02

Sedgar/Zagaro = Lvl 6.31

Merric = Lvl 14.84 (Expect him to be the second Master Seal user).

I'd say Level 14-15 at the beginning of Chapter 11 is more reasonable.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Perhaps lower since I did intentionally focused most kills on the higher leveled units there. 12-13.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Vergil

[Dat Nick]

There is a cost associated with everything. A basic economic principle.

Okay then, I'll just assume Zag and Wolf reclass to Sorcerer in C6. Them sucking less is obviously a cost to our team.

While we're at it, Cain and Abel are not allowed to be anything except Archers before promotion, at which point we must reclass them to Sage.

Seriously, do you want to stop sandbagging here or what? Unless you're actually trying to argue that Peg>Mage for 6x [Which it doesn't, at all], your cost analogy makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Edited November 24, 2009 by laws b122

[Don Draper]

When I'm playing as efficiently as possible, I usually have everyone around 14/0 at the beginning of Chapter 11 on an 8-man team. Of that team, one unit is usually Zagaro (who gets very few kills, and one is Curate Merric). I also barely ever level up Marth seriously.

[Colonel M]

Nevermind, I lose.

I'm not even going to bother with it now.

[Interceptor]

I say otherwise. Here are ThunderMan's levels at the end of Chapter 10:

And just to add another data point, for what it's worth, here are the levels of my units in Chapter 9. Note that I'm only playing pseudo-efficiently, meaning that I tend to Rout, and I also killed a few waves of Cavs in Ch. 7.

Asskickers:

Marth  9.56
Caeda  12.16
Cain   10.50
Abel   10.70
Draug  13.77
Ogma   12.14
Barst  14.25 (cannot stop this crazy bastard from killing everything)
Sedgar 6.01
Athena 12.1

Curates:

Merric 13.58
Lena   12.85

[Rodykitty]

and I also killed a few waves of Cavs in Ch. 7.

Hmm, this might be an issue in terms of EXP accuracy since it's possible to bypass most of the waves completely.

[Colonel M]

Yeah, I can confirm levels similair to Int's, possibly a level or two higher.

I only asked because IOS only had... 5 units? deployed, or at least it seemed. He also did mention he wasn't taking Marth seriously.

[Interceptor]

I know, that's why I included the disclaimer. You can assume that my levels are higher than normal. You can see it in Merric/Lena's levels, too, because they have been heal-bombing like nobody's business.

[Don Draper]

Yeah, I really prefer smaller teams in this game. By the way, I'm interested in your comments on the characters after you're finished your playthrough Int, particularly on Draug (assuming he's a Hunter).

About Barst, another thing I want to mention is that I'm pretty sure he's the only character in the game that never has a period of suck. He has several midgame doubling issues, but those disappear instantly after promotion, and he's pretty much unstoppable after that with his crazy offence and defense (Yay for +30 avoid from supports). That and being the second best unit until Zag/Wolf class change says something.

[Colonel M]

Not to mention by C10 he can slap Hauteclere and, assuming something like 13/0 Barst, carry rofl32 Atk.

[Don Draper]

So what did we conclude from Caeda vs. Merric?

If that topic is about to end, then what are some more thoughts about Barst moving into his own tier?

[dondon151]

Okay then, I'll just assume Zag and Wolf reclass to Sorcerer in C6. Them sucking less is obviously a cost to our team.

The cost of Zag/Wolf not taking sorceror is that they take classes that can be given to other people, they lose staff utility, and they stop hitting res.

While we're at it, Cain and Abel are not allowed to be anything except Archers before promotion, at which point we must reclass them to Sage.

The cost of Abel/Cain not being archer is lack of access to better 2-range weapons. The cost of them not being sage is the same as Zag/Wolf not being sorceror.

All costs are costs regardless of how small they are. If you paid $2 for a $100 lottery slip, the cost of that lottery slip was $2, the revenue was $100, and the profit was $98. Let's not confuse those 3.

[Rodykitty]

I'm gonna rise Sheeda > Merric since I'm not really convinced Merric's innate advantages outweigh hers.