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Red Fox (Nephenee) vs Ether (Ilyana)


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#1 Vykan12

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 06:51 PM

When we're talking a country girl against a hungry girl, everyone's a winner.

#2 Red Fox of Fire

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 08:33 PM

When we're talking a country girl against a hungry girl, everyone's a winner.

Until we're out of food. Then we're screwed. (lolrhyme)

To start, the bottomless pit of a mage is in chapters 8, 9, and 10 before the shy-and-embarrassed-about-her-accent-with-green-hair lancer is recruited. She'll get maybe 2 turns in 8, so she can't do much. She can help a bit on 9 and then 10 is all stealth, so she most likely does absolutely nothing there since the BEXP > the CEXP. So Ilyana gains about a chapters worth of utility before Nephenee joins the fray, which is pretty much null. But she will level a bit, so I'll give Ilyana two levels in the following comparison. (It should probably be only 1, but what the hell?)

Ilyana, level 8, Thunder/Elthunder
HP: 20.9
Atk: 13/16
Hit: 114/104
AS: ~8/~5
Avoid: ~22/~17
Crit: 10/15
Def: 3.3
Res: 11

Nephenee, level 7, Iron Lance/Javelin
HP: 22
Atk: 15/14
Hit: 106/86
AS: 11/8
Avoid: 28/22
Crit: 5
Def: 9
Res: 3

Nephenee's durability lead is quite clear. 1.1 HP, 5.7 Def, ~5-9 avo > 8 Res since magical enemies are much more rare than physical enemies (only 2 even exist on ch. 11, and even they are 3 rounding Nephenee).

But then comes offense. No matter what the case, Nephenee will always have more AS, and this continues throughout the rest of the game (25% higher Spd growth). For now, anything in the 5-7 AS range can only be doubled by Nephenee, which is the majority of Lance Knights and Steel Sword Myrmidons. Other than that, neither are doing well on offense. Both are 3+ rounds on mounted enemies and ~2 on most other guys, though Nephenee borderline 1 rounds Steel Sword Myrms and Ilyana can 1 round the fighters. But both are likely going to need a forge anyway. This will bring them both to 2 rounding most enemies, 1 rounding on occasion (especially on doubles).

Let's take a look at their growths and see where they're headed. Both are pretty much the same level, so they'll be even on experience gain.
HP/Str/Mag/Skl/Spd/Luck/Def/Res
Ilyana: 45/25/50/45/30/45/15/50
Nephenee: 55/40/20/55/55/25/35/25

All of Neph's defensive growths are better save Res, which generally isn't a big deal, so she's always more durable. Much higher Speed (including possible Knight Ward usage for an uber boost) means Neph doubles a lot more frequently, which pretty much nullifies any Def/Res gap on enemies and gives Nephenee an offensive advantage. Both have viable 1-2 range, so that's nothing to boast about. And then Neph will also always have +1 move on Ilyana, meaning she can reach enemies a bit faster and farther away.

Let's try on supports. Ilyana's first:
Gatrie: If he's in play, this is a good one for her. But he's not very good and it's slow, so this isn't likely.
Mia: She's bad and so are the bonuses. Pass.
Mordecai: Her most desired option, and fairly fast at that. She can get a B with him since he wants A Mist.
Zihark: This will be her A if Brom is not in play, but only B if Brom is in play, since Zihark has an easier time sticking with Brom and it's faster.
Lucia: lol

Nephenee:
Brom: A possible B for her, since he'll likely take Boyd or Zihark over her if they aren't full.
Devdan: Another possibility. He only really as Tormod otherwise, and Tormod isn't too likely to be in play as it is.
Calill: Her most likely A. It's fast and both love the full avoid.

Both should be able to fill up their slots with decent/good characters. However, Nephenee is arguably in a better position. Calill practically needs her for the avoid and supports as a whole, and the same with Devdan though to a somewhat lesser extent. All Ilyana gives her partners is Defense, but Gatrie and Mordecai are very tanky as they are and Zihark is more avoid reliant than anything, so he doesn't benefit much either.

Better durability + similar/better offense + more beneficial supports = better character.

#3 Ether

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 07:37 AM

Ok,let's see what we can do here.

To start, the bottomless pit of a mage is in chapters 8, 9, and 10 before the
shy-and-embarrassed-about-her-accent-with-green-hair lancer is recruited. She'll get
maybe 2 turns in 8, so she can't do much. She can help a bit on 9 and then 10 is all
stealth, so she most likely does absolutely nothing there since the BEXP > the CEXP.
So Ilyana gains about a chapters worth of utility before Nephenee joins the fray, which
is pretty much null. But she will level a bit, so I'll give Ilyana two levels in the following
comparison. (It should probably be only 1, but what the hell?)


To begin,why is Ilyana being recruited so late into the map?Ike,Oscar and Soren can
go over to that side and have her recruited about half way through the map,so that's a
half chapter right there.
She is your best ranged attacker in chapter 9 (as Soren probably isn't out of his
earlygame fail yet,and LolRolf),so she can fulfill a good role here.

As for chapter 10,although we are stealthing the chapter,a few people need to go kill
the boss so Volke can pick those chests.And,well,the boss is an armour knight without
a ranged weapon.Ilyana is probably the best person to ferry up there with one of your
horsies,as she never has to take a counter,and the bitch to kill boss has a 7 Def-Res
gap for Ilyana to take advantage of.

This means she is more than likely to build up utility on chapter 10 as well,but I'll count it
as less than a whole chapter,just to even her out at 2 chapters worth of utility before
Neph joins.

Let's look at Levels then.

Ilyana has about half a chapter in ch.8,she can nearly gain a level here,let's say about
80 exp.

In ch.9,she is being available for the whole chapter,with an abundance of enemies.
Assuming she kills 4 enemies and damages 4,she gains ~ 184 exp.
(Considering equal treatment,if all combat units we have available (even Rofl) are being
used,everyone gets 4 kills,if we are only fielding 7/9 (Drop Rofl and someone
else),then she gets 5 kills,which is 217 exp)

So far,this is 297 exp total,however,Ilyana ,likely gets a bit more than this due to several
factors.
1) She generally isn't counterattacked,so she can get player phase kills more safely
than other units.
2) Marcia and Ike have to hang back for a couple turns,so they get less kills than
others,Ilyana can get these.
3) The boss auto equips a knight killer,which means that Ilyana can get free shots on
his so long as it is equipped,as well,Titania and Oscar will want to avoid fighting him.

So,Giving Ilyana one more kill equates to 330 exp.

In chapter 10,she goes up there against the boss,and gets the kill exp from him,since
he can't counter her and she actually hurts him because she hits Res,this nets her 66
exp,as well as however times she hits him beforehand (17 exp per hit ).
Paired with Titania using a hand axe,the boss takes 3 rounds to kill,so Ilyana gets 2 hits
and a kill (lol,100 exp exactly)

So by the time Neph joins,Ilyana is level 10 with 30 exp,but we can easily cap that level
off with Bexp,so Ilyana becomes level 11.If it's not imposing too much,I'll give her the
Bexp for level 12,and Give Neph 2 levels of Bexp.

Now one thing to note is that Danomill just gave us a master seal,and,let's face it,Ilyana
is probably our best candidate for early promotion.

Soren would like to maintain his lategame,since that is his best time,and promoting
early would jeapordize this.

Rhys gains terribad offense...or he would,if we could get light tomes yet...

Mist needs a big chunk of Bexp to even be level 10 by now,and would most likely
prefer more level ups for her strength.

And to cushion Ilyana even more here,we get another Master seal in the next
chapter,lolz.So,now we have a promoted Ilyana.

So an 12/1 Ilyana looks like this.

HP: 26.7
Str: 4.5
Mag:12
Skl: 14.7
Spd: 12.8
Lck: 8.7
Def: 5.9
Res : 15

Compared to a 9/0 Neph,who looks like this

HP:23.1
Str: 8.8
Mag: 2.4
Skl: 11.1
Spd:12.1
Lck: 6.5
Def: 9.7
Res: 3.5

Let's see how they fare in combat stats.

Ilyana 12/1 (Thunder/Elthunder/ Max Forged Thunder)
Hp: 26.7
Atk: 16/19/21
Hit: 121/111/146
AS: 12.8/10.8/12.8
Avoid: 32/28/32
Crt: 12/22/26
Def: 5.9
Res: 15

Neph 9/0 (Iron/Javelin/ Max Forged Iron)
HP:23.1
Atk: 15.8/14.8/20.8
Hit: 108/88/133
AS: 12.1/9.1/12.1
Avoid: 30/24/30
Crt: 5/5/14
Def:9.7
Res:3.5

Durability wise,it is 3.6 HP,11.5 Res, and 2/4 Avo VS. 3.8 Def,Against the majority of
enemies(Mounted and armour knights) They face death in the same number of
rounds.so Ilyana's extra avoid is slightly more helpful.They also tie against
soldiers.Against the vigilantes,Neph is invincible(Ilyana is lol9HKO'd though.),while
against Mages Ilyana is invincible (Neph is 3HKO'd).Overall,I would say Ilyana wins
durability here,but it's close.

Offense wise,Ilyana wins Hit by varying amounts, and wins AS by 0.7,as well as winning
crit by between 7 and 21 points.And they Tie attack.
Unless Neph wants to have 1-2 range.If Neph has a Javelin,Ilyana wins AS by up to 3.7
Points,and has an attack lead of between 1.2 and 6.2,plus she targets Res.


Add in her new found healing ability and this is a clean sweep for Ilyana.

Also to note on Neph's 2 range,is that enemies can have up to 20 - 24 Avo! 68 display
hit with a javelin,no thanks,even her Iron Lance nets her 84 - 88 Display hit,so she can
have an unlucky Miss.With Thunder,Ilyana nets 97 Display hit,needless to say,she
won't miss.

Next up,forges.

Without a forge,Neph 3RKO's horses if she doubles them,and if she doesn't,6RKO's
them,Tinks Knights,and generally 2 rounds others.
While Ilyana 1RKO's about 1/4 of the enemies and 2RKO's the others(except mages)

With a forge,Neph 2RKO's horses if she doubles,3RKO's if she doesn't.She also 3-4
RKO's the armours,and 1RKO's weighed down Soldiers and Myrms(but everyone
does that basically).
While Ilyana with a forge 1RKO's everything except 1 mage,priests,and the boss.

Another thing to note is that Ilyana's forge costs us less.
Neph needs full Mt as well as a good chunk of hit in order to work,while Ilyana only
needs 3 Mt to go on a killing spree(she misses out on a one more Mage,but Meh).
As well,using a forge means Neph loses her enemy 1-2 range,while Ilyana keeps hers.
This means that giving Ilyana a forge is more benificial to the team than giving Neph a
forge,and since only 4 forges are available at this point,this may very well mean Neph
doesn't get one while Ilyana does.

Ilyana also gains D rank magic in all 3 types now,which means she has many ways to
rack up effective damage.


Let's try on supports. Ilyana's first:
Gatrie: If he's in play, this is a good one for her. But he's not very good and it's slow, so
this isn't likely.
Mia: She's bad and so are the bonuses. Pass.
Mordecai: Her most desired option, and fairly fast at that. She can get a B with him
since he wants A Mist.
Zihark: This will be her A if Brom is not in play, but only B if Brom is in play, since Zihark
has an easier time sticking with Brom and it's faster.
Lucia: lol

Nephenee:
Brom: A possible B for her, since he'll likely take Boyd or Zihark over her if they aren't
full.
Devdan: Another possibility. He only really as Tormod otherwise, and Tormod isn't too
likely to be in play as it is.
Calill: Her most likely A. It's fast and both love the full avoid.

Both should be able to fill up their slots with decent/good characters. However,
Nephenee is arguably in a better position. Calill practically needs her for the avoid and
supports as a whole, and the same with Devdan though to a somewhat lesser extent.
All Ilyana gives her partners is Defense, but Gatrie and Mordecai are very tanky as they
are and Zihark is more avoid reliant than anything, so he doesn't benefit much either.


On the contrary,I would say that Ilyana is in quite a good position in comparison to
Nephenee.
Firstly,on the Mordy support,he is not guaranteed A Mist.Mist has tonnes of support
options,and a very prominent one,Jill,comes to mind.
Mist could very well take A Jill because Mordy's 1 att won't fix her offense,while Jill gets
her best support option possible,meaning she doesn't have to rely on Haar or Lethe for
her A support,this also gives Jill more Def than any of her other options,so it helps her
tank.

Secondly,I like how you knock the Gatrie support because he's not good,when all of
Neph's options are only slightly better than him,if not equal.
Going by this,it's very possible that Ilyana gets A Mordy B Zihark,while Neph get's
nothing.
Even if Ilyana gets double B supports,because Brom is in play and Mist supports
Mordy,she can still grab a C with Gatrie without losing anything.
Overall,better partners and better bonuses mean that support wise, Ilyana >>>
Nephenee.

As the game goes on,Ilyana gains more Mt than Neph,and hits Res,so as long as she
can still double,she retains an offensive win.

Let's look at chapter 17-1 for an example. I'll put Ilyana at 12/7,which is one level per
chapter,since she can gain healing Exp if she needs to,since her level doesn't effect
that.

With a + Spd band,she has 15.1 AS.Let's see what this doubles...Anything that isn't
promoted,or isn't a Myrmidon,so about half the map.So they are near even here,but
Enemy AS is generally pretty high here,for example,in 17-2 she doubles 19/24,in 17-3
she doubles 37/43,and in 17-4 she doubles just over half ( although she may have
gained speed by now,and if so,she doubles 25/34).

Nephenee does edge her out on promoted enemies and Myrms,although,it should be
noted that if Neph isn't promoted yet she only has 18 AS,which misses Paladins.

At this point in the game and onward,I concede durability,but Ilyana isn't doing too bad
herself. On average,in 17-1,she is borderline 3HKO'd (does 30 damage out of 29.4
Hp),facing average hit rates of 46.56 % True.

Considering she may still have shade to lower exposure and can avoid counterattacks
on Player phase,with low enemy density,she has no problems surviving.

All of this is not even accounting for staff utility,and with Ilyana healing 35 Hp with a
mend staff,she is clearly doing her job.Support wise,Ilyana is already giving out B
Mordy C Zihark,while Neph only has C Brom,and Ilyana's supports grow faster.

So,to conclude,
Crushing earlygame lead, + slight Midgame lead + supports + healing > a Lategame lead.Therefore Ilyana > Nephenee.
:awesome:

#4 Red Fox of Fire

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 04:44 PM

To begin,why is Ilyana being recruited so late into the map?Ike,Oscar and Soren can
go over to that side and have her recruited about half way through the map,so that's a
half chapter right there.

This chapter is meaner than that. We're facing a 3 front war with 7 units, 3 of whom (Rhys, Soren, Mia) can't wall at all. To add to that, we get more BEXP if we don't deploy extra people here. This chapter is much more likely to be done defensively, since if we recruit Ilyana fast, it's unlikely we'll have the necessary means to protect her unless she dashes back to the base, but then she won't get any experience anyway. We only have four units that can effectively wall, but even that is tough because of the maps setup. At the south end, we have like 6 Cavaliers that like to attack and Canto out so another dude can come in. At the east end we have a million ranged enemies to pwn the face out of anyone that tries to choke that spot. And then at the east is mainly Lance enemies, and Ike, who needs to recruit Ilyana, uses Swords, which is obviously a bad sign. Our units will need a lot of healing, and Rhys is the only healer, so they'll be healing themselves a lot.

Also, due to the fact that Ilyana won't actually attack us, it's much safer to wait for a while before recruiting her. So I can't see how Ilyana is realistically getting a lot of experience in this chapter, if any at all.

She is your best ranged attacker in chapter 9 (as Soren probably isn't out of his
earlygame fail yet,and LolRolf),so she can fulfill a good role here.

I beg to differ. Soren for one needs to have gotten 5 levels to beat Ilyana's Magic. Given his low base level and BEXP, this is easy to do. He'll also be tying her AS at this point, so Ilyana has no sort of advantage on him. And then you seem to forget that Boyd, Titania, and Oscar all have access to range as well.
Level 7 Ilyana w/Thunder: 12.5 atk, 7 AS
Level 2 Titania w/Hand Axe/Javelin: 19.45/18.45 atk, 13/14 AS
Level 8 Boyd w/Hand Axe: 17.6 atk, 5.7/6.7 AS (based on his Str)
Level 9 Oscar w/Javelin: 14.7 atk, 6.7/7.7 AS (based on his Str)

1x Sword Knight lv 7 (steel sword)
25 hp, 16 atk, 4 AS, 85 hit, 10 avo, 9 def, 2 res, 2 crit, 2 cev
1x Sword Knight lv 10 (iron sword)
26 hp, 14 atk, 9 AS, 102 hit, 20 avo, 10 def, 4 res, 2 crit, 2 cev
1x Lance Knight lv 6 (javelin)
24 hp, 13 atk, 4 AS, 69 hit, 9 avo, 8 def, 2 res, 2 crit, 1 cev
1x Lance Knight lv 7 (javelin)
24 hp, 13 atk, 4 AS, 70 hit, 10 avo, 9 def, 2 res, 2 crit, 2 cev
1x Axe Knight lv 6 (iron axe)
24 hp, 15 atk, 4 AS, 84 hit, 9 avo, 8 def, 2 res, 2 crit, 1 cev
1x Axe Knight lv 7 (iron axe)
24 hp, 16 atk, 6 AS, 84 hit, 13 avo, 9 def, 2 res, 2 crit, 1 cev
Only Titania and maybe Oscar can double (except those 2 guys that only Titania doubles). Otherwise, Ilyana 3 rounds everything, possibly 4 rounding that 4 Res Sword Knight if she didn't get Magic on her level. Titania 1-2 rounds them all. Boyd 3 rounds most, but 4 rounds the Sword Knights. If Oscar doubles the 4 AS guys, he 2 rounds them.

So Ilyana loses range cleanly to Titania, kind of evens out with Boyd, and loses to Oscar if he's doubling, which he has a decent chance of doing. And then Soren beats her because he's likely 2 rounding them as well. So Ilyana really isn't our best ranged attacker. Also, these guys and the Knights have the biggest Def/Res gaps, so it only gets worse for Ilyana in comparison to other enemies.

As for chapter 10,although we are stealthing the chapter,a few people need to go kill
the boss so Volke can pick those chests.And,well,the boss is an armour knight without
a ranged weapon.Ilyana is probably the best person to ferry up there with one of your
horsies,as she never has to take a counter,and the bitch to kill boss has a 7 Def-Res
gap for Ilyana to take advantage of.

Not likely. Titania, Oscar, and Marcia are our only mounted units. One needs to Rescue Ike, one Volke, and the other Sephiran. We might even end up needing room for Nephenee. Titania, Oscar, and Ike (and possibly Marcia) can and should take out the boss just fine when it's appropriate to do so, or if we have room for another combat unit, Soren is a better choice because he's more powerful, and we'll want to deal all the damage we can to the boss so he can be defeated fast.

(Considering equal treatment,if all combat units we have available (even Rofl) are being
used,everyone gets 4 kills,if we are only fielding 7/9 (Drop Rofl and someone
else),then she gets 5 kills,which is 217 exp)

But this isn't really the way Fire Emblem works. All units are not created equal. We won't be spreading kills "equally" among our time, because certain units have a much easier time at than others, like anyone with an enemy phase to speak of (of which Ilyana is not one). Also, I don't know the experience calculations for this game, but I'm pretty sure 5 kills =/= 217 experience, especially since she'll get slightly less upon leveling up.

1) She generally isn't counterattacked,so she can get player phase kills more safely
than other units.

This is countered by the fact that she can't do much, if anything, on the enemy phase. She'll only have player phase, and she won't get a kill every player phase, thus reducing her experience count overall.

3) The boss auto equips a knight killer,which means that Ilyana can get free shots on
his so long as it is equipped,as well,Titania and Oscar will want to avoid fighting him.

Titania and Oscar can also fight at range. So can Boyd and Soren, and there are only 3 spots to fight him from, and he has a Javelin he can use on the enemy phase. There are plenty of problems with this. Ilyana can't safely fight him without someone to Rescue her, but then you could consider that favoritism since another one of our units that could be fighting is instead taking time to save poor Ilyana.

Oh, and apparently Kotaff has Counter. If Ilyana is level 8 (an appropriate level for here) and gets hit by Counter, Kotaff on the enemy phase can kill her with his Javelin and our hungry Mage has had her last meal.

Paired with Titania using a hand axe,the boss takes 3 rounds to kill,so Ilyana gets 2 hits
and a kill (lol,100 exp exactly)

There are multiple problems with that. First, the boss moves, so he'll attack Titania on the player phase, reducing the amount anyone else gets to attack him. Then, if we assume Titania is blocking him, the guards outside can probably see Ilyana from where she would be standing behind Titania, causing us to miss out on that BEXP. And also, the turn limit is 12 for max BEXP, so we want to clear out the boss in less than 3 turns.

So by the time Neph joins,Ilyana is level 10 with 30 exp,but we can easily cap that level
off with Bexp,so Ilyana becomes level 11.If it's not imposing too much,I'll give her the
Bexp for level 12,and Give Neph 2 levels of Bexp.

That's pretty extreme. Aside from your inflated level, you handed Ilyana ~290 BEXP and Nephenee only 198, which obviously doesn't make a fair comparison.

Now one thing to note is that Danomill just gave us a master seal,and,let's face it,Ilyana
is probably our best candidate for early promotion.

It's a double-edged sword. It'll give her better utility for now, but it will kill her lategame, since she'll be growing slowly with fairly bad stats, meaning enemies will catch up and beat her because her growths aren't good enough to compensate (lol30% Speed). Also, other units like Master Seals because it means they don't have to gain the extra experiencefor a promotion. Like, if Boyd gets lucky and caps his Str early, he can use a Master Seal to uncap it and get quick promotion bonuses at almost no cost to other stats. And this generally works for anyone. If a character caps an important stat like Str or Spd early (about 16-19 I'd say) they can promote for much more positive returns.

Soren would like to maintain his lategame,since that is his best time,and promoting
early would jeapordize this.

It's pretty much the exact same scenario for Ilyana. Both would like the Seal for the same reason. You can't say it's a good idea for one but bad for the other.

Rhys gains terribad offense...or he would,if we could get light tomes yet...

Mist needs a big chunk of Bexp to even be level 10 by now,and would most likely
prefer more level ups for her strength.

The healers both get access to offense on promotion, and Mist especially gets a horse, which has all sorts of advantages. I can't see how Ilyana is a better candidate for them.

And to cushion Ilyana even more here,we get another Master seal in the next
chapter,lolz.So,now we have a promoted Ilyana.

Two Seals for a lot of potential units.

So an 12/1 Ilyana looks like this.

Compared to a 9/0 Neph,who looks like this

As I've pointed out, that's a pretty inflated level. 10/1 would be more accurate, or you can wait to promote her and leave her at level 10. Now, since I've already shown how Nephenee > Ilyana w/out early promotion, let's check the other side out. Ilyana likely will win for a short time, so let's jump to chapter 14. With some adequate leveling and BEXP, I'll put Ilyana at 10/4 and Nephenee at 16/0.

Ilyana, Thunder/Elthunder, C Mordecai
HP: 27.15
Atk: 16.5/19.5
AS: 13.1/12.1
Avoid: 31
Def: 7
Res: 16.5

Nephenee, Steel Lance/Javelin
HP: 27
Atk: 21.6/17.6
AS: 14/16
Avoid: 36/40
Def: 12
Res: 5.25

Unfortunately, we don't have many stats for chapter 14, but you can see that Nephenee is already closing the gap pretty nicely. Durability-wise, 5 Def + 5-9 avoid > 11 Res, as Mages are generally few in number and Nephenee ORKOs them anyway. In fact, Ilyana misses the ORKO on chapter 13 Mages, and she's often borderline on physical enemies, so Nephenee is doing very comparably on the offense as well, especially considering she's much better on the enemy phase.

Add in her new found healing ability and this is a clean sweep for Ilyana.

Ilyana's healing ability isn't all that special. We have Mist and Rhys right away, and also Soren and/or Tormod when promoted. Mist and Rhys will both have higher ranks for better staves, Rhys will have more Magic, and Mist has a whole bunch of other advantages (staff, supports, etc.) that make her an ultimately superior healer. Plus, once the majority of our team promotes, the demand for healing goes down, so one healer will generally suffice.

Another thing to note is that Ilyana's forge costs us less.

Minor point here. This game throws a lot of money at us, so using a bit more cash is not going to be an issue.

Firstly,on the Mordy support,he is not guaranteed A Mist.Mist has tonnes of support
options,and a very prominent one,Jill,comes to mind.

MistxMordecai is the best option for both. It's among the fastest and gives the best bonuses. Swapping Mordy for Jill means Mist loses 2 atk for 7 avoid, and I daresay she'd like the 2 atk better. On the other hand, Mordy swapping Mist for Ilyana gives him lolHit over an atk boost, and Mist better matches his mobility. For Mist, A Mordy B Jill is the best she can do, and her partners respect the boosts as well.

Mist could very well take A Jill because Mordy's 1 att won't fix her offense,while Jill gets
her best support option possible,meaning she doesn't have to rely on Haar or Lethe for
her A support,this also gives Jill more Def than any of her other options,so it helps her
tank.

If Mist goes A Jill instead of B, Jill gets 1 more defense and 2 avoid, as opposed to Mist getting her full atk. Jill will still be very tanky regardless by the time the support actually builds, so the atk is better.

Overall,better partners and better bonuses mean that support wise, Ilyana >>>
Nephenee.

But see, you missed my original point. Ilyana doesn't help her partners. Mordy gets much more help from Mist due to +atk, Zihark gets much more from Brom for the same reason (and it's faster), and even Gatrie won't get any help because his Def is naturally unpenetrable. Calill, being the low defense Sage she is, really likes that full avoid, and Brom likes the B support to add 5 more avoid to the 15 he can already get from Zihark, making him virtually invincible to everything. Or even Devdan, since Devdan just wants a support.

As the game goes on,Ilyana gains more Mt than Neph,and hits Res,so as long as she
can still double,she retains an offensive win.

Only, Ilyana won't always double. For example, the average AS on chapter 21 is ~12. Ilyana needs to be 10/13-14 to double anything with 12 AS, higher for any faster enemies. That's a high level for chapter 21, obviously, and it only gets worse because Ilyana's Spd growth sucks and she doesn't grow fast enough.

On the other hand, 20/4 Nephenee has 22 Spd, which doubles literally everything on the map. In fact, since enemies reach up to 18 AS, and 10/6 Ilyana has 14 Spd, Ilyana could be just a bit Spd screwed and can be in danger of getting doubled by some enemies.

Let's look at chapter 17-1 for an example. I'll put Ilyana at 12/7,which is one level per
chapter,since she can gain healing Exp if she needs to,since her level doesn't effect
that.

That's a majorly inflated level. Healing doesn't get that much experience, and someone like Mist and Rhys do it more often because, unless they got promoted early, it's all they do, and Ilyana doesn't get a lot of CEXP. One level per chapter promoted at this point in the game is just too much.

Considering she may still have shade to lower exposure and can avoid counterattacks
on Player phase,with low enemy density,she has no problems surviving.

Now that you mention it, I forgot about Nephenee's innate Wrath. Since Nephenee is generally getting 3+RKOd for the last half of the game or so, she can often be in Wrath range, equip a Killer, and insta-kill pretty much any enemy she comes into contact with. If you give her chapter 14's Vantage, she'll be an insta-killing machine, capable of killing any enemy she comes into contact with without them even knowing what happened.

Now, you may say this is too much favoritism, but who else can use Vantage to the same effect? No one else has innate Wrath, and other characters don't have crit chances nearly as reliable as Wrath Nephenee to actually make good use of Vantage. What's better than killing everything without being attacked?

Crushing earlygame lead, + slight Midgame lead + supports + healing > a Lategame lead.Therefore Ilyana > Nephenee.
:awesome:

More like, comparable mid + clear late win > minor early lead + fairly negligible staff utility.




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