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FE9 Tier list v3


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I have four things to say.

I know that an accurate comparison doesn't start in Ch19, I should have mentioned that they are really similar in 11-17, except that Vantage matters less because Mia's crit pre-promotion isn't so good. Zihark doesn't have a very significant durability lead pre-promotion, but Mia isn't having any real significant leads either, so it balances out.

Mia has a huge level lead over Zihark in 11, and she rapes 12 like he can't. Well, he can do 12 if we give him like 7-8 levels. I'm not sure you want to go down that route, but here's your map.

Needs Armorslayer to do damage against Knights, kills her Avo more. They 3RKO her, she 3RKOs back.

Mia 3HKOs Knights, since she does double 10's to them. This is a 2RKO.

It's not terrible, but it isn't that good either.

Chapter is verifiably harder without Mia. Titania can ably hand the south Paladin-bomb, but that leaves two entry points. Mia and Ike can two-man the west passage. You can, in fact, position Mia to battle a Knight on the very first Enemy Phase, which cripples him immediately for an easy PP kill (3HKO, Mia does not get countered).

As for Mia vs. Stefan, I'd like to see soem more evidence. If Stefan is beating Mia for their shared existence, Stefan is clearly the winner because Mia's 7-14 performance is underwhelming.

Underwhelming for who, exactly? I detailed exactly what she was doing, so I think you either need to start explaining why what she does in earlygame (when this game actually makes you rub two brain cells together, unlike 17+ when everyone rapes on auto-pilot) isn't worth much, or you need to say that I'm full of shit. Your move.

EDIT: btw Narga, it is Hard Mode for sure. Save game color and lack of Clear BEXP, etc.

Edited by Interceptor
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EDIT: btw Narga, it is Hard Mode for sure. Save game color and lack of Clear BEXP, etc.

I figured. I think if I play this game again I need to do way less bexp hoarding and probably try HM on fixed mode to prevent the need for me to resist the temptation of resetting in the event of a 0 or 1 point level up with bexp. Never did HM on fixed mode before. I don't think my levels were quite like yours, and I did use a pretty small team too, and got 6 to 8 characters to 20/20 by the end of the game. Around 4 or 5 by the start of endgame, too.

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I figured. I think if I play this game again I need to do way less bexp hoarding and probably try HM on fixed mode to prevent the need for me to resist the temptation of resetting in the event of a 0 or 1 point level up with bexp. Never did HM on fixed mode before. I don't think my levels were quite like yours, and I did use a pretty small team too, and got 6 to 8 characters to 20/20 by the end of the game. Around 4 or 5 by the start of endgame, too.

Indeed. All of my PoR runs involved BEXP/stat hoarding, which makes using even Nephenee a bit of a chore. Couple that with the BK fight, and how I didn't know what Ashnard could insta-blick all of my people and take no damage (first run was a HM run, and oh was it painful), and I briefly entertained the thought that this game posed a bit of challenge. Naturally, I was in for a rude awakening this weekend when I discovered that everyone except Rolf is basically Jesus when you actually play to win.

Spoiler: you get 0-stat level-ups on Fixed mode. It's very infuriating.

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I'm pretty sure the only reason people said Stefan over Lethe was crit and crit alone. Despite the fact she's far more durable by his arrival (The averages for laguz I should note are off. She has over 100% HP growth, but it treats it like 100%), while doing well enough offensively. Her transformation issue isn't so big a deal, considering she starts every battle transformed, meaning she doesn't need the demi-band to be instantly useful.

Then factor in she can benefit people early when they have basically no one else (B B Jill, Muarim, they get bonuses nowhere else until Largo/Haar, not even much better bonuses to compensate for all the time, gives her +2 Def and 12 avoid, lolhit), Stefan's options are rather iffy on choosing him aside from Soren (sweet, a B with Soren, 6 avoid and 1 mt). On top of this, Stefan has bad luck, meaning periodically he could end up eating a crit just from basic noobs, cutting more into his already worse durability. In fact, Lethe has some of the best luck in the game, which helps her be one of the best crit avoid units for some of the pests with killer weapons. Won't exactly be facing crit from weapons that have crit padding, like Spears and what have you.

Further more, I do wonder who cares for the Energy Drop exactly? Others can just forge something up, we have no reason not to give them to her. Not that she really faces problems until quite a bit later, but I'd think Stefan's defensive concerns are far more worrying.

Both are hot though

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Mia having a level lead is dependent upon BEXP, obviously we can give Zihark BEXP as well, which is all I really have to say about that, I haven't seen enough for Mia>Zihark and they're much closer now.

Lots of people who don't naturally ORKO want an Energy Drop, not everyone an have forges all the time, and even then some still fall short.

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Spoiler: you get 0-stat level-ups on Fixed mode. It's very infuriating.

There is that, but it should remove the temptation to reset. Unless it hits .95 and a different weapon would give me the stat and I knew it, but even then, I know in the end the character should end up close to it's averages, or more with band usage, regardless of whether or not I reset. So I'm okay with it. I really should play a HM runthrough in which Mist doesn't just need a draco to cap defense and a skill book to cap skill. That was a lot of resets. Her/Mia/Marcia are definitely my faves

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Mia having a level lead is dependent upon BEXP, obviously we can give Zihark BEXP as well, which is all I really have to say about that [...]

Mia's level lead is actually only partly BEXP. I'm giving her 4 levels, basically, which enables her to more easily take for-reals CEXP from kills, which in turns leads to more levels. Zihark's AS is insufficient for Slayer shenanigans, so he requires more BEXP than what I gave to Mia to do what she's doing. It seems to this soldier that this, coupled with Mia's prior 4-5 chapters, means something for the comparison.

Also, Zihark can't do anything about the level lead in Ch. 11. No base for him until 12.

I haven't seen enough for Mia>Zihark and they're much closer now.

At least they are in the same tier. But again: shitting on Mia's earlygame is going to result in objections from me. All complaints directed at my rant, where I was intentionally giving Mia Milestones.

Her/Mia/Marcia are definitely my faves

Well, nobody's perfect.

Edited by Interceptor
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Her/Mia/Marcia are definitely my faves

Well, nobody's perfect.

Mist is okay though?

As for Marcia, I suppose her personality is odd, etc. Maybe I just like pegs and fire.

And I think the personality of my #4 can be summed up in an 8 letter word that starts with T and ends with apeworm.

um, on topic, uh, I got nothing.

Edited by Narga_Rocks
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With availability considered, might Oscar or even Boyd have a case for moving up? And Ike could maybe jump the tier gap with Tanith not existing until Chapter 18. By that point the game is already on Easy Mode, right?

Well, with the assumption of Ike at neutral utility (or close to it) for most of his pre Tanith existence causing them to be so close (I think so, anyway), you'd think maybe, now that we know you'd have to be Rolf to be neutral.

As for Oscar and Boyd, who knows? Kieran and Jill are similar for availability, just chapter 11 and access to the chapter 12 base + a few turns being the difference there.

Boyd v. Kieran and Oscar v. Jill/Kieran. Who wants it? But Oscar v. Kieran was done partly with availability in mind. I think it was not needing forges to ORKO or something that put Kieran > Oscar. Not sure if there was more to it than that. Possibly lack of bexp pre chapter 8 is hurting the units that start nearer the beginning in getting the full strength of their availability lead, considering as Int pointed out they do need bexp to really start going in chapter 8 (thus in theory they aren't quite as good beforehand, but at least they exist).

19/30 chapters (counting P) vs. 28/30 chapters (or does Oscar miss more than just chapter 3?). The typical argument here is "are you 1.48x as good in your 19 chapters as the other guy is in his 28 chapters?" Although it's not likely so clearcut, considering Oscar's performance and Kieran's performance are not constant throughout their existence (separate and combined).

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Ike into Top has been brought up many times before, but the general consensus was that parts of his earlygame were too rough for him to actually be there comfortably. From what I remember, the main argument was that several enemies past...I dunno, Chapter 8, I can't remember the exact argument correctly, had WTA over him and his supports weren't quite built enough yet to make him an avo-tank.

Well, that and the fact that he has absolutely no 1-2 range. I dunno how much weight we give that during the early chapters.

EDIT:

Boyd v. Kieran and Oscar v. Jill/Kieran. Who wants it? But Oscar v. Kieran was done partly with availability in mind. I think it was not needing forges to ORKO or something that put Kieran > Oscar. Not sure if there was more to it than that. Possibly lack of bexp pre chapter 8 is hurting the units that start nearer the beginning in getting the full strength of their availability lead, considering as Int pointed out they do need bexp to really start going in chapter 8 (thus in theory they aren't quite as good beforehand, but at least they exist).

I recall someone arguing that Oscar having to take away kills from Ike/Boyd in the earlier chapters is a slight disadvantage, hence Kieran rising. I think I just skimmed the thing, because I wasn't really interested in more paladin arguing.

Edited by Sol Hiryu
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Mist is okay though?

Naturally. Mist is my favorite character, she's better than jellybeans.

Ike into Top has been brought up many times before, but the general consensus was that parts of his earlygame were too rough for him to actually be there comfortably. From what I remember, the main argument was that several enemies past...I dunno, Chapter 8, I can't remember the exact argument correctly, had WTA over him and his supports weren't quite built enough yet to make him an avo-tank.

Well, that and the fact that he has absolutely no 1-2 range. I dunno how much weight we give that during the early chapters.

Ike is so very not Top tier. He's got all of the problems of a Myrmidon without the bailout of an early promotion. I was quite surprised to see how underwhelming he is as a Ranger. Boyd and Oscar are blowing him away from the word "go". It's maddening how long he gets weighed down by anything that he might find useful, and Regal just doesn't have enough reach. It's also really hard to justify too much BEXP for him, since he stops growing if you lean on him too much, and it's not as if he's amazing as a level 20 tier 1.

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Ike into Top has been brought up many times before, but the general consensus was that parts of his earlygame were too rough for him to actually be there comfortably. From what I remember, the main argument was that several enemies past...I dunno, Chapter 8, I can't remember the exact argument correctly, had WTA over him and his supports weren't quite built enough yet to make him an avo-tank.

Well, that and the fact that he has absolutely no 1-2 range. I dunno how much weight we give that during the early chapters.

Sounds good.

EDIT:

Boyd v. Kieran and Oscar v. Jill/Kieran. Who wants it? But Oscar v. Kieran was done partly with availability in mind. I think it was not needing forges to ORKO or something that put Kieran > Oscar. Not sure if there was more to it than that. Possibly lack of bexp pre chapter 8 is hurting the units that start nearer the beginning in getting the full strength of their availability lead, considering as Int pointed out they do need bexp to really start going in chapter 8 (thus in theory they aren't quite as good beforehand, but at least they exist).

I recall someone arguing that Oscar having to take away kills from Ike/Boyd in the earlier chapters is a slight disadvantage, hence Kieran rising. I think I just skimmed the thing, because I wasn't really interested in more paladin arguing.

Ugh. I vaguely remember reading that stuff. I think it was the idea that this game rewards focusing and focusing on Ike and Boyd to make them even stronger is better. However, Ike basically has all the time in the world to hit level 20, and if Oscar is > Ike by this much in the tier list (not disputing) then it seems to me that getting him there faster rather than Ike is better for the team.

However, Ike does have a small spd lead and similar str, and a better str growth and speed growth, so it could be argued that Ike helps more early (despite massive durability wins for Oscar like 7 hp and 3 def though Ike has .2 higher hp growth and .05 higher def growth), but considering the small number of units in some early chapters I'd have to say that growing Oscar as well is nothing but a help. But I haven't played it recently, so...

Mist is okay though?

Naturally. Mist is my favorite character, she's better than jellybeans.

Is jellybeans > doritos?

Ike is so very not Top tier. He's got all of the problems of a Myrmidon without the bailout of an early promotion. I was quite surprised to see how underwhelming he is as a Ranger. Boyd and Oscar are blowing him away from the word "go". It's maddening how long he gets weighed down by anything that he might find useful, and Regal just doesn't have enough reach. It's also really hard to justify too much BEXP for him, since he stops growing if you lean on him too much, and it's not as if he's amazing as a level 20 tier 1.

That sounds bad. I suppose Mia/Zihark have way more spd for a while, too.

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Lots of people who don't naturally ORKO want an Energy Drop, not everyone an have forges all the time, and even then some still fall short.

If these mystery people fail so hard that not even a forge can help them, then I say they have far greater problems than needing a stat booster on top of it.

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Anyway, Tormod vs. Devdan.

Lv12/1 Tormod (+ Paladin Band):

26.75 HP, 5.0 STR, 13.25 MAG, 13.0 SKL, 13.5 SPD, 9.75 LUK, 7.25 DEF, 13.25 RES

> Elfire: 18.25 Atk, 115.875 Hit, 6.5 Crt, 13.5 AS, 36.75 Avd

Fire Forge (+5 Mt): 21.25 Atk, 125.875 Hit, 6.5 Crt, 13.5 AS, 36.75 Avd

Lv--/4 Devdan:

36.0 HP, 14.0 STR, 7.0 MAG, 15.0 SKL, 13.0 SPD, 16.0 LUK, 11.0 DEF, 10.0 RES

> Steel Lance: 24.0 Atk, 108.0 Hit, 7.5 Crt, 13.0 AS, 42.0 Avd

Iron Forge (+5 Mt): 26.0 Atk, 118.0 Hit, 7.5 Crt, 13.0 AS, 42.0 Avd

Javelin: 20.0 Atk, 98.0 Hit, 7.5 Crt, 13.0 AS, 42.0 Avd

Devdan only joins rather late in the chapter, but I'm too lazy to pull out the next chapter's enemies, so chapter 16's will have to do. Also, Tormod could actually have gained a level until he joins, but since it hardly changes anything, I'll leave it out for now and just take the stuff I already had.

Lv15 Myrmidon (Steel Sword): 26 HP, 7 Def/4 Res, 14 AS, 32 Avd | 20 Atk, 105 Hit, 7 Crt

---> Tormod 2RKOs at 84 DHit, gets 3RKO'd at 68 DHit in return

---> Devdan 2RKOs at 86 DHit, gets 5RKO'd at 53 DHit in return

Lv15 Fighter (Steel Axe): 36 HP, 9 Def/4 Res, 8 AS, 20 Avd | 24 Atk, 85 Hit, 4 Crt

---> Tormod 2RKOs at 96 DHit, gets 2RKO'd at 48 DHit in return

---> Devdan 2RKOs at 78 DHit, gets 3RKO'd at 53 DHit in return

Lv16 Mage (Elthunder): 25 HP, 6 Def/13 Res, 8 AS, 19 Avd | 20 Atk, 96 Hit, 15 Crt

---> Tormod 4RKOs at 77 DHit (2RKOs at 87 DHit with the forge), gets 4RKO'd at 69 DHit and 5 Crt in return

---> Devdan ORKOs at 89 DHit, gets 4RKO'd at 54 DHit in return

Lv14 Knight (Iron Lance): 30 HP, 18 Def/6 Res, 4 AS, 11 Avd | 18 Atk, 97 Hit, 4 Crt

---> Tormod 2RKOs at 100 DHit (ORKOs with the forge), gets 3RKO'd at 60 DHit in return

---> Devdan 3RKOs at 97 DHit (2RKOs at 100 DHit with the forge), gets 6RKO'd at 55 DHit in return

Lv14 Soldier (Steel Lance): 30 HP, 9 Def/4 Res, 7 AS, 17 Avd | 20 Atk, 93 Hit, 5 Crt

---> Tormod 2RKOs at 99 DHit (ORKOs if his MAG happens to round up or if he uses the forge), gets 3RKO'd at 56 DHit in return

---> Devdan ORKOs at 91 DHit (2RKOs at 81 DHit with Javelin), gets 4RKO'd at 51 DHit in return

Their performance actually is frighteningly similar. Their offense is pretty much the same (both have an enemy which they do better against than the other and tie at the rest). Devdan admittely is a bit more durable, but Tormod has +1 MOV and staves.

Fast forward to chapter 22 'cuz I'm lazy.

Lv12/10 Tormod, B Reyson, C Calill, (+ Paladin Band):

31.7 HP, 6.8 STR, 17.3 MAG, 16.6 SKL, 18.0 SPD, 12.9 LUK, 9.5 DEF, 17.3 RES

> Elfire: 25.3 Atk, 136.9 Hit, 8.3 Crt, 18.0 AS, 51.4 Avd

Fire Forge (+5 Mt): 28.3 Atk, 146.9 Hit, 8.3 Crt, 18.0 AS, 51.4 Avd

Lv--/11 Devdan, B Nephenee (+ Knight Ward):

41.25 HP, 18.25 STR, 9.1 MAG, 17.8 SKL, 17.55 SPD, 18.8 LUK, 14.15 (+2) DEF, 11.75 (+2) RES

> Steel Lance: 29.25 Atk, 125.0 Hit, 8.9 Crt, 17.55 AS, 58.9 Avd

Iron Forge (+5 Mt): 31.25 Atk, 135.0 Hit, 8.9 Crt, 17.55 AS, 58.9 Avd

Javelin: 25.25 Atk, 115.0 Hit, 8.9 Crt, 17.55 AS, 58.9 Avd

Lv4 Halberdier (Steel Lance): 38 HP, 13 Def/8 Res, 13 AS, 30 Avd | 22 Atk, 100 Hit, 7 Crt

---> Tormod 2RKOs at 100 DHit (ORKOs with the forge), gets 3RKO'd at 49 DHit in return

---> Devdan 2RKOs at 95 DHit (ORKOs with the forge if his STR happens to round up), gets 7RKO'd at 41 DHit in return

Lv4 Paladin (Steel Lance): 35 HP, 16 Def/9 Res, 15 AS, 35 Avd | 25 Atk, 92 Hit, 5 Crt

---> Tormod 3RKOs at 100 DHit (2RKOs with the forge), gets 3RKO'd at 41 DHit in return (2RKO'd if his DEF rounds down)

---> Devdan 3RKOs at 90 DHit (4RKOs at 80 DHit with Javelin), gets 5RKO'd at 33 DHit in return

Lv6 Warrior (Steel Axe): 45 HP, 11 Def/6 Res, 13 AS, 31 Avd | 28 Atk, 91 Hit, 6 Crt

---> Tormod 2RKOs at 100 DHit (ORKOs with the forge if his MAG happens to round up), gets 2RKO'd at 40 DHit in return

---> Devdan 2RKOs at 84 DHit, gets 4RKO'd at 42 DHit in return

Lv5 Sage (Elthunder): 31 HP, 9 Def/15 Res, 13 AS, 29 Avd | 21 Atk, 102 Hit, 16 Crt

---> Tormod 2RKOs at 98 DHit, gets 7RKO'd at 61 DHit and 3 Crt in return

---> Devdan ORKOs at 96 DHit, gets 6RKO'd at 43 DHit in return

Lv4 Wyvern Lord (Steel Lance): 38 HP, 19 Def/7 Res, 12 AS, 26 Avd | 26 Atk, 100 Hit, 7 Crt

---> Tormod 2RKOs at 100 DHit (ORKOs with the forge), gets 2RKO'd at 49 DHit in return

---> Devdan 2RKOs at 99 DHit (4RKOs at 89 DHit with Javelin), gets 5RKO'd at 41 DHit in return

Okay, so their offense still is almost exactly the same (or actually, Tormod slightly wins with the forge). Similarly to Gatrie, Devdan has an epic durability lead over Tormod; however, it doesn't look quite as epic anymore if you consider that Tormod doesn't need to eat counters on Player Phase while retaining full offense. All in all, it just allows Devdan a bit more enemy exposure, but that's about it really. However, unlike Gatrie, Devdan doesn't have an epic earlygame to answer Tormod's staves and +1 MOV with. Actually, it's Tormod who has half a chapter of an availability lead, lol.

I'd say this one's pretty clear. Staves > a bit more durability (especially after seeing how high Mist is on the list).

Tormod > Devdan please.

...no thoughts on this at all...?

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Can't speak to it authoritatively, owing to my inexperience with both Tormod and Devdan. I will say, though, that it's a bit silly to dump 5 BEXP'ed levels and a Seal on Tormod, and then do a comparison between them before Devdan even gets a turn at the trough.

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Ike into Top has been brought up many times before,

By me, I might add.

but the general consensus was that parts of his earlygame were too rough for him to actually be there comfortably.

Was it? I thought it was a lack of 1-2 range until chapter 28. Ike's > Boyd in the early chapters too, so Idk where you got that from.

Well, that and the fact that he has absolutely no 1-2 range. I dunno how much weight we give that during the early chapters.

I never would agree that it warrants a tier gap, but I can definitely see Boyd > Ike because of it.

@Int: You said Boyd won from the word "go" but I'm not seeing it:

Level 3 Ike with an iron sword: 20.5 HP, 11 Atk, 7 AS, 21 Avo, 6 Def, 3 Crit

Base Boyd with a steel axe: 30 HP, 18 Atk, 0 AS, 4 Avo, 5 Def, 2 Crit

3x Fighter lv 1 iron axe: 24 hp, 13 atk, 0 AS, 81 hit, 0 avo, 3 def, 0 res, 1 crit, 0 cev

2x Myrmidon lv 2 iron sword: 18 hp, 9 atk, 3 AS, 102 hit, 6 avo, 3 def, 0 res, 3 crit, 0 cev

One thing you'll notice is that Ike deals 18 damage to the fighters whilst Boyd only deals 15 and that Ike deals 16 damage to the myrmidons compared to Boyd's 14. Plus, Ike has a better chance to critkill (5.91% vs 2%). As for durability, Ike gets 4RKO'ed by the fighters, as does Boyd, except the fighters only have 50 displayed against Ike, whilst they have 77 displayed against Boyd. Seems to me Boyd's got it worse here. As for the myrmidons Boyd gets 6RKO'ed, Ike gets 7RKO'ed. This is a lead without even looking at hit rates. Ike > Boyd in chapter 1.

Level 4 Ike with an iron sword: 21 HP, 11.5 Atk, 8.5 AS, 23-25 Avo, 6 Def, 3.5 Crit

Level 3 Boyd with the steel axe: 31 HP, 19 Atk, 0 AS, 4 Avo, 5 Def, 2 Crit

3x Fighter lv 1 iron axe: 24 hp, 13 atk, 0 AS, 81 hit, 0 avo, 3 def, 0 res, 1 crit, 0 cev

2x Myrmidon lv 3 iron sword, vulnerary [1d]: 19 hp, 10 atk, 5 AS, 102 hit, 10 avo, 3 def, 0 res, 3 crit, 0 cev

2x Bandit lv 3 iron axe: 27 hp, 14 atk, 1 AS, 79 hit, 2 avo, 3 def, 0 res, 1 crit, 0 cev

Ike deals 18-20 damage to the fighters/bandits whilst Boyd only deals 16 damage. Boyd's only possible win is his extra damage output against the myrmidons, that is, if Ike can't double them. If he does then Ike wins. Also, Crit. Defensively, The fighters 4RKO them both, the myrmidons 3RKO Boyd, but 6RKO Ike. The Bandits 3RKO Ike but 4RKO Boyd. Overall, being better again 5 enemies > being better against 2, so Ike > Boyd overall in chapter 2. Skip ahead to chapter 5:

Level 6 Ike with the regal sword: 23 HP, 14.5 Atk, 10 AS, 28 Avo, 7 Def, 14 Crit

Level 4 Boyd with the steel axe: 31.5 HP, 19 Atk, 0 AS, 5 Avo, 5.5 Def, 2 Crit

Even with 14 Atk, it takes 9 def for Boyd to match Ike's damage output, which is only achieved by the enemies the regal sword deals bonus damage to anyway. So it's moot. Ike also has a schmexy 12 base crit lead, which increases even futher thanks to doubling. As for durability, they're getting similar RKO rates, really, and Ike's avo lead should make up for it.

Level 7 Ike with the regal sword: 23.5 HP, 15 Atk, 10 AS, 28 Avo, 7 Def, 14 Crit

Level 6 Boyd with the steel axe: 33 HP, 20 Atk, 2 AS, 10 Avo, 6 Def, 3 Crit.

2x Soldier lv 9 javelin: 26 hp, 13 atk, 3 AS, 78 hit, 8 avo, 7 def, 3 res, 4 crit, 2 cev

2x Knight lv 9 javelin: 26 hp, 15 atk, 4 AS, 74 hit, 10 avo, 13 def, 4 res, 3 crit, 2 cev

1x Soldier lv 8 iron lance: 26 hp, 13 atk, 5 AS, 95 hit, 11 avo, 6 def, 2 res, 3 crit, 1 cev

Ike 2RKO's the lot. Boyd, on the other hand, 4RKO's the knights. Ike also wins crit. Ike wins offence once again. Durably, Boyd appears to win, with a 2 round lead ahead of Ike on all the enemies. But this is only really against the lance users that don't double him. Against the 7 enemies that double Boyd, and the 11 enemies that RKO both the same number of times, Ike wins for better avo (and better RKO rates in teh former case). So overall, Ike > Boyd still stands.

Level 8 Ike with the regal sword: 24 HP, 15.5 Atk, 11 AS, 30 Avo, 8 Def, 14.5 Crit

Level 7 Boyd with the steel axe: 34 HP, 21 Atk, 3 AS, 12 Avo, 6 Def, 3 Crit

3x Soldier lv 7 steel lance: 25 hp, 16 atk, 0 AS, 85 hit, 1 avo, 6 def, 2 res, 3 crit, 1 cev

2x Archer lv 6 steel bow: 21 hp, 14 atk, 2 AS, 89 hit, 5 avo, 6 def, 1 res, 4 crit, 1 cev

2x Knight lv 7 steel lance: 25 hp, 18 atk, 0 AS, 81 hit, 1 avo, 13 def, 3 res, 2 crit, 1 cev

Again, Ike beats Boyd when it comes to RKO's on the knights thanks to his regal sword, and his crit is also superier. Basically, Ike wins offence yet again. As for defence, Boyd gets RKO'ed at simialr rates to Ike, however, Boyd does have leads against lance users, including those I presented her. Overall, it's Ike's avo against non-lance users vs Boyd's RKO lead against lance users. Very close. I'd say they about tie in utility her.

Adding in Ike's chapter 3, Ike is most definitely > Boyd's pre-chapter 8 overall.

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Can't speak to it authoritatively, owing to my inexperience with both Tormod and Devdan. I will say, though, that it's a bit silly to dump 5 BEXP'ed levels and a Seal on Tormod, and then do a comparison between them before Devdan even gets a turn at the trough.

yeah, my Mia v. Stefan gave him bexp in chapter 16, even though it's arguably a waste on him. Considering two levels (possibly 3) on Devdan in the base with the KW means 14 speed easy and maybe 15, that helps give him a fair amount more doubling in chapter 17 than he has without it (ie: not a waste in the slightest). I'm not sure if your chapter 22 levels assumes that Devdan got bexp in chapter 17 or not, but it should be noted what Devdan's speed can be in chapter 17.

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@Int: You said Boyd won from the word "go" but I'm not seeing it:

I'll concede that Boyd's not stomping Ike until Ch. 8. Although, it IS a stomp, good sir, what with Boyd ORKO'ing essentially the entire map. I am iffy on the prior chapters owing to that fact that I was not paying attention to the difference between the two of them during my run, so numbers will rule the day there, and it seems like you have a solid argument.

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@Int & Narga: FFFFFF-- I knew I forgot something. >_<

My comparison is without BEXP for Devdan, though that of course is nonsense. Devdan gets almost 3 levels with the amount of BEXP I gave Tormod, which means +2.25 HP, +1.8 STR, +0.9 MAG, +1.2 SKL, +1.95 SPD (Knight Ward already considered), +1.2 LUK, +1.35 DEF and +0.75 RES.

I'm not sure if this changes any of his #RKO numbers, but it probably makes him another slight bit more durable. And yes, he gets this bonus starting at chapter 17.

Not so sure on this anymore, though unless Devdan does quite notably better than Tormod in combat, I'd still argue staves > him.

I'm too lazy right now, but if wanted, I can redo my comparisons with the BEXP for Devdan considered.

I already compensated the Master Seal by giving Devdan the Knight Ward and allowing him to keep it though, so the BEXP should be the only issue.

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Still, I don't see the stomping:

Level 10 Ike with the Regal sword, 'C' Oscar: 26 HP, 16.5 Atk, 12 AS, 43 Avo, 9 Def, 4 Res, 15 Crit

Level 10 Boyd with an Iron axe: 36 HP, 20 Atk, 10 AS, 27 Avo, 7 Def, 2 Res, 4 Crit

1x Sword Knight lv 7 steel sword: 25 hp, 16 atk, 4 AS, 85 hit, 10 avo, 9 def, 2 res, 2 crit, 2 cev

1x Sword Knight lv 10 iron sword: 26 hp, 14 atk, 9 AS, 102 hit, 20 avo, 10 def, 4 res, 2 crit, 2 cev

1x Axe Knight lv 7 iron axe: 24 hp, 16 atk, 6 AS, 84 hit, 13 avo, 9 def, 2 res, 2 crit, 1 cev

1x Archer lv 7 iron bow: 22 hp, 11 atk, 7 AS, 105 hit, 16 avo, 6 def, 2 res, 4 crit, 2 cev

1x Knight lv 7 steel lance: 25 hp, 18 atk, 0 AS, 79 hit, 1 avo, 13 def, 3 res, 2 crit, 1 cev

1x Knight lv 8 iron lance: 25 hp, 15 atk, 2 AS, 92 hit, 6 avo, 13 def, 3 res, 2 crit, 2 cev

1x Knight lv 8 javelin: 25 hp, 15 atk, 0 AS, 71 hit, 1 avo, 13 def, 3 res, 2 crit, 1 cev

3x Knight lv 8 steel lance: 25 hp, 19 atk, 0 AS, 82 hit, 2 avo, 13 def, 3 res, 2 crit, 2 cev

2x Soldier lv 10 iron lance: 27 hp, 14 atk, 7 AS, 100 hit, 16 avo, 7 def, 3 res, 4 crit, 2 cev

1x Knight lv 10 iron lance: 27 hp, 16 atk, 2 AS, 94 hit, 6 avo, 15 def, 4 res, 3 crit, 2 cev

1x Knight lv 10 javelin: 27 hp, 16 atk, 2 AS, 74 hit, 6 avo, 14 def, 4 res, 3 crit, 2 cev

1x Lance Knight lv 6 iron lance: 24 hp, 14 atk, 7 AS, 89 hit, 15 avo, 8 def, 2 res, 2 crit, 1 cev

1x Lance Knight lv 7 iron lance: 24 hp, 14 atk, 7 AS, 90 hit, 16 avo, 9 def, 3 res, 2 crit, 2 cev

1x Myrmidon lv 11 steel sword: 24 hp, 17 atk, 8 AS, 100 hit, 19 avo, 6 def, 2 res, 5 crit, 3 cev

Here's a bunch of enemies Boyd loses offence too. I can't be bothered to look up durability, but I doubt it's that far apart. So yeah, stomping? I highly doubt it.

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Still, I don't see the stomping:

That's cuz you didn't give Boyd a forge. All things considered, he does the best with one at this stage of the game. Regrettably, there is only one forge. I play efficiently and there's no way to justify a forge for Ike at this point. Oscar could benefit from a forge, but Titania won't (not yet), and forges let Boyd ORKO. Boyd starts cracking the Knights apart in two hits.

Edited by Interceptor
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You have to draw the line with "This person uses this resource the best and so he gets it" somewhere. Ike with a forged steel ORKOs all of those enemies, for instance. Furthermore, a forge doesn't make enemy AS drop, and half of Boyd's problem here is doubling. He can't double anything with 7 AS or over, and quite a few enemies have around that number.

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No way to forge Steel in Chapter 8, or otherwise I would agree with you. Fact of the matter is, Boyd ORKO'ing Knights is a really big deal.

EDIT: WRT Boyd's AS, he's levelling up during this chapter. It just so happens that the enemies he facing in his most likely spot (the east side) are doubled by him.

Edited by Interceptor
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