177 replies to this topic

[Progenitus]

I figured I might as well nab this one before anyone else does.

Like my FE10 one, it's based on beating HM as quickly and efficiently as possible, with multiple playstyles considered beyond what could be considered as the most efficient. It's based on a scale of 1-10, with 5.5 being roughly neutral utility, and in increments of 0.5.

Ratings are also subject to change. And since I haven't really looked at this game in a long time (only recently have I started up again), they're subject to change a lot.

Characters significantly different on routes (e.g. Cormag) will receive separate ratings.

Here's a scoreboard for future references...

10: Seth
9.5: Franz, Ephraim (Eph)
9: Eirika (Eir), Vanessa, Moulder the Boulder, Colm, Gerik (Eir), Tethys (Eir)
8.5: Lute, Kyle, Tethys (Eph)
8: Artur, Natasha, Forde, Gerik (Eph)
7.5: Saleh (Eir)
7: Innes (Eir)
6.5: Joshua, Ephraim (Eir), Tana
6:
5.5: Eirika (Eph), Gilliam Bojangles, Garcia
5: Neimi, Saleh (Eph)
4.5:
4: Ross, Innes (Eph), Dozla
3.5:
3: Marisa (Eir)
2.5:
2: Marisa (Eph)
1.5: Amelia (Eph), Ewan
1: Amelia (Eir)

Edited by IMPrime, 14 April 2012 - 08:59 PM.

[Mekkah]

FE5 and FE8 are the best games for tier/ranking discussion. 8)

[Progenitus]

Eirika

Eirika is eerily similar to Lyn from FE7 (a lot of FE8 units are like that). Of course, Eirika actually knows what durability means.

She does start off rather unimpressive, though. 9 spd is good, and... rapier. Which will generally face WTD against the enemies it's effective against (it's still good though). And that's about it. 16 HP, 4 str, 3 def, 5 con doesn't do her any favors. Earlygame chapters do tend to have a lot of axe enemies, but she's still getting 2HKO'd at 40ish displayed hit rates, which is not very reliable. She can double them after a couple of levels though, since they hover around 6-7 spd and she has a 60% spd growth. So her offense is pretty good, but her durability is still meh. So she's about average for awhile.

Things change once she gets supports going, though. She has a very fast +3 support with Seth, who was wtfanima, which gives her full att and def, which is basically what she needs. Later, Forde, Innes, and even Saleh and Tana pop up as options, although they're not as good as the Seth support (crappier affinity, start later), but it's certainly better than nothing and make a fine B support. This, on top of her 180% avo growth, gives her pretty good durability. And her high spd growth means she doubles everything (more or less) and the att from supports gives her good pow, making her offense good.

By promotion she becomes scary. It's slightly later than everyone else (end of ch 16, rather than ch 15-16), but she gets good promo bonuses (3 def for starters, with 4 HP and 2 str too, and a frickin horse), and her own personal 30 use, 21 effective att weapon that has triple mt on monsters. And she loses a game breaking 2 AS from it. Oh noes. Still, 30 uses doesn't last forever, but it's a great weapon for tight spots, since usually even stuff like silver swords are enough for Eirika.

So her offense throughout the game ranges from "pretty good" to "lolpwn". Her durability goes from "meh" to acceptable to good. Her only big drawback is mono swords, which have no good 1-2 range options. That combined with her shaky earlygame durability is probably a point taken or so.


Unfortunately, the above only applies to her own route. On Eph route, she takes a huge hit. Since she disapoofs for chapters 9-14, and starts on the opposite side of the map in 15, she becomes much less attractive for supports, and not just that, she has less time to build said supports, and also rejoins underleveled. The supports is probably the biggest hit, since her big str/def gains from them helped make her so good on her own route. And she also loses several chapters of positive utility on top of that.

Still, on Eph route, she's usable. She still has pretty good offense, and gets that ridiculous sword after promotion. Her durability drops though. So she's probably closer to average on Eph route.

Eir route: 9/10
Eph rotue: 5.5/10

[Progenitus]

FE5 and FE8 are the best games for tier/ranking discussion. 8)

I have fond memories of 8 because it was my very first FE8 game.

[Skyward]

Of course FE8 was your first FE8 game, what did you expect?

[Don Draper]

FE5 and FE8 are the best games for tier/ranking discussion. 8)

Off topic, but speaking of FE5, could you have a look at the tier list in the near future? I think we agreed on Machua up above at least Olwen/Eryios (possibly Mareeta), and Trewd below Fred/Glade

[Mekkah]

sure.

Also Eirika takes up no unit slot, has the 100 item convoy and all that during earlygame + Eirika route. And unlike others she has no option of promoting much earlier than usual (not like 18/0, but things like promoting at 14/0 for people like Gerik and Cormag) Oh, and sacred twins have double, not triple effective might. Other than that, looks solid.

[Colonel M]

Actually IIRC Eirika doesn't start out that terribly underleveled. She gets beefed up to Level 15 (same with Ephraim) if they didn't go toward their route. They can also hold back on the promotion too. The main issue becomes supports then, and at least Seth can build up his with her which should maintain her ground for a while.

I look forward to this.

[Progenitus]

Eirika's problem in supports for Eph route is that Seth might not want her. If he's supporting Eirika, that means no one else can fill that slot, which means only one person will be benefiting from Seth's anima. Unless you only field one of Franz, Natasha, or Cormag, which is possible, but rather unlikely given that those three are good units.

Oh, and the convoy thing/double mt thing. Forgot about that.

[Progenitus]

Seth

I can sum this guy up in three words; rape, awesome, and rape. Cause he likes rape.

This guy is so amazing I have no idea where to start. He one rounds everything for liek the first half of the game (or longer), and never dies, and has 8 move, and anima affinity. He's an amazing clutch unit. Something like chapter 6 would be a nightmare without Seth, with cavs coming from the north and generally getting swarmed in all directions, and that ba'al approaching the civilians, which means Seth not only makes a great tank, but he can bumrush the boss to end the chapter before the ba'al kills off anyone whenever you want. And that's just one chapter. Imagine this for over half the game.

The fact that the other top tier characters in the game (Franz, Eph, etc.) don't even match Seth's non-spd base stats until several levels before promotion is a testament to how long Seth is your best or second best unit. For example, Ephraim does not match Seth's base str and def until ~15/0.

So skipping towards the lategame because there's really no point on elaborating further about how Seth makes everyone his bitch before then...

And surprise, he's still very good. He's no longer the best, largely due to some spd problems (12 base with 45% growth is a little low, for a 20/1 unit). However, due to supports and his good growths, he has very good str/def/avoid. Every single one of his supports gives him a full bonus in two of str/def/avo, just to give an idea. And while his spd is a little low, he still doubles quite a bit (I have no enemy stats, though, and right now I'm too lazy to look them up).

Ridiculous earlygame/midgame + solid endgame = wtfisthisshit

10/10

[Candlejack]

I'm actually on a HM playthrough of FE8 Ephraim Route, which I hear is the easier one because of WTFDUESSEL.

I'm on that chapter right now!

Sadly, I can't get to him WITHOUT having Cormag killing somebody before recruiting him. Because I won't use Tana.

EDIT:

FFFFFF SETH IS SECOND BEST?!?

I didn't know Duessel was THIS good...

Edited by OliverXRenning, 16 September 2009 - 11:58 PM.

[dondon151]

Too bad for smash that there aren't any male playable black-armored soldiers in this game.

[Candlejack]

Too bad for smash that there aren't any male playable black-armored soldiers in this game.

The armor looks more purple-y in art, but its definitely black.

/joke.

[Skyward]

I'm actually on a HM playthrough of FE8 Ephraim Route, which I hear is the easier one because of WTFDUESSEL.

C11 and C12 = WTFIMGONNAKILLMYSELFHELPMEPLS

I recruited Cormag AND Duessel without getting either of them killed in C10 on an Ephrai msolo. Too bad all the cavs died.

Just have Seth rescue Ephraim and charge down to Duessel while the 3 cavs beat the shit out of the enemies.

I'm gonna predict Franz gets 8.5/9.

Edited by Joshybear25, 17 September 2009 - 03:49 AM.

[Candlejack]

He's going to rip apart Gilliam.

Oh well, the guy deserves it.

BASE 3 SPD. JESUS

[Orange Crush]

Yeah, I can't wait until the second half of October when we get to see Gilliam's rating.

[Mekkah]

He'll be more like "ok Gilliam's offense sucks when people double things, and his movement sucks, but his hp/def is good."

[Candlejack]

He's gonna give him around a 5 or a 4.5.

Anything higher would be generous and anything lower would be a bit too cruel.

It'd be like giving an okay earlygame character- bad endgame character a 1.

Plus, I don't think you hate knights when they don't double things. Last I checked, that wasn't their forte.

Knight sucks in this game. :C

Let's see, I'll help out smash. A bit.

55% DEF Growth? Nice; it isn't even counting the class growth. And a base 9 DEF as well as base 9 STR is good too. Plus he gets a level lead and an auto-C in lances, so Javelin usage is good for the slow knight. Speaking of slow: lol base 3 SPD. lol 30% growth. Gill is getting doubled by every dude except Knights. Technically, even Gheb could double him if Gill had a Steel.

Oh well, Knights are Knights. So all those tinks in his armor mean little. Except when he can't normally cap shit except for DEF... at 20/20. And that is the AVERAGE stat.

You know that if you need to use a Dracoshield on a KNIGHT of all classes, they have problems.

He supports Moulder, which isn't so bad- Anima support for DEF/AVO/ATK for Gill, which he likes. And Moulder enjoys the good AVO/DEF boost Thunder provides. So while Gill hammers away, Moulder stays behind him. Then we get to Garcia, who wants Thunder's AVO/DEF boosts, but Garcia also gives boosts to AVO/HIT. The last part is awesome because of the low accuracy of Javelins. LOLFranz with 7 move won't keep up with Gill. Plus Light is shit for Gill, who needs a defensive boost rather than a HIT boost. Then there is Neimi, who you won't be using anyway, and lolSyrene.

So while he's beating down bad guys earlygame, at around Ch. 8/9, he starts to slow down. That's when you move to somebody else for a tank. Like Duessel. If you are playing Eph Route.

I'll leave the rest to the pro.

[Progenitus]

Franz

Franz' only flaw is that he's not Seth.

For a unit who joins in ch 1, he has good bases, good growths, a decent support list, and most of all an amazing class. Cavalier is so ridiculous. It's the only unpromoted class with two weapon types, and 7 move. If they had canto/re-move like the FE9 and 10 mounted units they'd be laughably broken.

One of Franz' other great points is his spd. With 50% growth, it doesn't take long for him to double. And his two best supports (Seth and Forde) give full att, so he'll be doubling on top of good att. He also has Gilliam and Natasha as backup options, although the former has some mobility issues before promotion (7 vs 4). He also gets full def from every support other than Forde, so he gets good durability as well.

And then promotion comes and then he can take Great Knight, which has big promo gains (3 HP, 2 str/spd/def, 4 con, and axes, at the expense of 1 move), and then it gets even more ridiculous. Of course, if the promo bonuses are overkill (e.g. Franz is getting RNG blessed, or you just feel Franz doesn't need more stats), you can take paladin, which has 8 move over the great knight's 6. You'll be working with inferior promo bonuses in everything else though.

In a normal environment I'd give Franz a 10/10. He's always one of the best units in the team at any given chapter (except maybe ch 15, f'ing desert). However, Seth exists, and the rankings are supposed to be relative to the other characters in the game. So I'm going to have to dock half a point for not being Seth.

9.5/10

[Progenitus]

Gilliam Bojangles

Poor Gilliam. In a game where most everyone is a buffed up version of their FE7 counterpart, Gilliam was actually a downgrade of Oswin.

Still, he's not terrible by any means, although his start is a bit shaky. Since he has 3 base spd, a 30% growth, and the bandits can reach up to 7 spd, they can double him, which results in a 2RKO. Once he gets +1 spd, or after the first few chapters (where it's no longer an axe fest), he gets better very quickly. His 55 def growth, on top of his supports (which give him even more def, and avo just for lulz), means he becomes invincible. I don't really need to say much else other than watch enemies tink him or deal single digit damage. Be careful of mage knights though, as they are likely fast enough to double him (don't have enemy stats).

Unfortunately, his offense is poor. He's never doubling anything except the slowest enemies, and even with a speedwing or two it seems doubtful (only 10.8 spd at 20/1, assuming general, since great knight is 1 less spd). He actually gets full crit from every support except Moulder though, so stick to killer weapons if you want a prayer at ORKOing. Brave weapons might work too as he has 16 con as a general, and brave weapons are pretty heavy (brave sword is already 12 wt), so your other units may not want to use those weapons or else suffer some heavy avoid penalties. That's assuming they actually care about the -spd though, since some units won't care (like supported Vanessa who has 123561236163 spd and avo).

Gilliam seems pretty easy to rate. Very good defense + poor offense/mobility = average to me.

On a side note, I don't know who or where the Bojangles fad started.

5.5/10

Edited by 8========================D, 30 October 2009 - 05:01 AM.