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S Rank FE5 Tier List


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#1 Don Draper

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 04:10 PM

S rank has two conditions:

1) Complete the game in 219 turns or less
2) 47 characters must be alive (One of Eryios/Olwen)

Therefore, turncount is still extremely tight, and characters that help cut down on turncount (Assassin's like Othin, staff users) are extremely useful.

A route is assumed

Sample turncount for each chapter, largely based on http://www.pegasuskn...5/ct_index.html
Spoiler ()


Notice there are 6 leeway turns. These can pretty much apply to whatever chapters in the event that something unpredictable occurs (miss a key hit, etc). Having a buffer is always good.

-Staff h4x featuring Lara Tier-
Saphy
Lara
Salem
Sleuf
Sara
Linoan
Tina

-Top Tier-
Othin
Asvel
Karin
Lifis
Pahn

-High Tier-
Fin
Dagda
Leaf
Dean
Fergus
Halvan
Shiva

-Upper Mid-
Eyvel
Nanna
Brighton
Sety
Galzus
Homer
Eyrios
Amalda
Xavier
Mareeta

-Lower Mid-
Ralph
Fred
Delmud
Glade
Eda
Olwen
Misha
Selphina

-Low-
Machua
Hicks
Tanya
Carrion
Trewd
Dalshien

-Bottom-
Ronan
Marty
Kein
Alva
Robert

-Not recruited-
Shanam
Miranda
Conomore
Cyas

Edited by The Robfather, 23 February 2011 - 05:33 PM.


#2 Salad Utensil

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 04:19 PM

1)The biggest issue I see here is that Homer isn't even on this list
2)Why is Amalda in High tier? She starts with C staves with only 3 more outdoor maps not counting her own
3)Why is Misha in upper mid when you only have 4 more outdoor maps and exist in a period when you have likely 7 or more A staff users which outclass flying utility completely?
4)Eda probably should not be in upper mid when she only becomes available after you have access to 103781231 people who can start to warp and rescue to give you good mobility.

Edited by Brighton, 21 April 2010 - 04:21 PM.


#3 Don Draper

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 04:38 PM

1)The biggest issue I see here is that Homer isn't even on this list
2)Why is Amalda in High tier? She starts with C staves with only 3 more outdoor maps not counting her own
3)Why is Misha in upper mid when you only have 4 more outdoor maps and exist in a period when you have likely 7 or more A staff users which outclass flying utility completely?
4)Eda probably should not be in upper mid when she only becomes available after you have access to 103781231 people who can start to warp and rescue to give you good mobility.


1) Will add him
2) I misjudged her use in the SSS playthrough I saw, she's really only used in the final chapter. Down she goes
3) I meant to move her up to Lower Mid instead of Higher Mid. Her offense with the Wind Sword she comes with is acceptable, and she makes a decent fill-in
4) Mainly for Chapters 15 and 17. She cuts down turncount huge. She may be a little high where she is right now though

#4 dondon151

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 04:38 PM

Lifis is absent. Also, if you have characters in "not recruited" tier, I wouldn't put them in elsewhere on the list.

Also... Eyvel being invincible in the beginning of the game is a nice boon.

Edited by dondon151, 21 April 2010 - 04:44 PM.


#5 Don Draper

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 04:46 PM

I was actually thinking of moving Eyvel up to where Sety and Galzus are now. Eyvel is incredibly useful for cutting down turncount in the four beginning chapters, while Sety is good for essentially 3 and Galzus for 2. Eyvel will probably move to where they are now.

#6 Salad Utensil

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 05:04 PM

4) Mainly for Chapters 15 and 17. She cuts down turncount huge. She may be a little high where she is right now though

According to YayMarsha's SSS run video's all Eda does in chapter 15 is save you 1 turn at most or 1 use of a warp staff. That strategy can be replicated in 3 turns instead without her or 2 turns with a warp staff. In chapter 17 all she does is visit a village that Karin probably could have visited instead. Also if the RNG was not in his favor Eda would have died anyway(since its possible for the enemies she was distracting to kill her if she didn't dodge two of those hits or has higher stats). Of course if you plan on getting the dragon lance without wasting a use of warp and rescue she is somewhat useful since she is forced anyway.

I mean Karin is good because she has flier's utility for the whole game, makes the Manster saga actually doable with her support with Fergus, and a large opportunity span to train her. Dean has flight on top of good combat without training. Eda is basically Karin with about 15 less chapters of availability and comes at a time when flight is starting to become outclassed by staff uses.

Also there shouldn't be a tier gap between Pahn and Lifis, especially when Lifis is around much longer and is your main supplier of tomes/lockpicking for about half of the game.

Edited by Brighton, 21 April 2010 - 05:06 PM.


#7 Don Draper

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 05:13 PM

Fair point. Where do you see Eda though? She's still probably not bottom tier.

Lifis will move to top tier then.

#8 Salad Utensil

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 05:18 PM

Fair point. Where do you see Eda though? She's still probably not bottom tier.

Lifis will move to top tier then.

Probably in lower mid above Misha since they both suffer similar problems, they are outclassed in many ways. Their differences however are Eda has availability and Misha has combat(well kinda).

Edited by Brighton, 21 April 2010 - 05:19 PM.


#9 Don Draper

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 05:23 PM

Done.

I'm wondering what to do with Ralph. He makes a decent filler unit for the Final chapter, and he's essentially a 15/1 Halvan without Ambush:

Ralph Base: 38 HP, 12 Str, 12 Skl, 14 Spd, 6 Lck, 9 Def, 14 Bld
15/1 Halvan: 38 HP, 14 Str, 13 Skl, 14 Spd, 6 Lck, 12 Def, 16 Bld

So -2 Str, 3 Def, -2 Bld, no Ambush. Obviously he's much worse then Halvan when you consider availabilty and scrolls, but for a character that needs no buildup he's a decent filler and I could see him above the growth units like Kein, Robert, etc

#10 Salad Utensil

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 06:00 PM

I agree with the above about Rolph.

I can't see Eyval in upper mid though, considering a six turn completion of chapter 1 is doable without her though slightly luck reliant due to hammer's bad hit. She is necessary for the 4 turn completion of chapter 2. I've completed 2x in 10 turns without her and chapter 3 is doable in 14 turns without her if you don't care able the civilian's. What she does help with though is supporting basically all your "good" units and contributing leadership stars and rescue chaining too I guess. I guess she should get points for saving Nanna too in chapter 5, but to me it feels more like a plot related event. When she is recruited again, she is almost useless.

My point is she exists for 4.5 chapters of being your "best" character. The problem is those 4.5 chapters are by far the easiest in the game and you don't need her technically and still can get a good turn count but she is still stealing valuable exp from your other characters if you do use her and that should be a negative placed against her. Rank running means your exp gets limited anyway since all you end up doing in the later chapters is warping from point A to B, killing some boss and warping Leaf to the throne. Availability for such a short period over the easiest portion of the game just doesn't merit a upper mid position IMO.

Edited by Brighton, 21 April 2010 - 06:02 PM.


#11 grandjackal

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 06:31 PM

Why is Dalshien above Glade? Chapter 6x and 7(because he's doing dick in chapter 8 and 9)? I would take Glade making his opening chapter's castle unconquerable so LEaf's team can actually complete the chapter and then his leadership star making leadership heavy chapters more bearable (for example, the route split with Cyrus, him and other leadership giving units make crossing hte bridge and reaching the fortress far more bearable than without) over Dalshien being a hurf-a-durf for his chapters. From there, I'd also take his decent stats, weapon rank and mobility over whatever the hell Dalshien has.

Base Glade: 34 HP, 11 Str, 2 Mag, 12 Skill, 11 Speed, 4 Luck, 10 Def, 12 Build

15/1 Fin: 34.8 HP, 12.8 Str, 2.4 Mag, 13.4 Skill, 15.8 Speed, 8.6 Luck, 11.4 Def, 10.8 Build

He's barely that different from Fin. Fin seems faster, but not by much thanks to his build, as he can feel it reduced by Javelins and anything heavier. He'd still be faster, but it's there. Get this, he didn't need a promotion item either.

Oh right, did I mention he supports the ever-godly Fin (or can)? I dunno about you, but giving 10 crit and avoid to the dude with the +10 Luck giving Brave Lance sounds pretty awesome to me. Yet again though, how can Dalshien counter this? He cannot, because he is a gimp.

Furthermore, he's got A rank lances, of which probably only Fin would otherwise have until Dean shows up (who has his own personal lance anyways). He's got good excuse to pack silver.

It's too bad we can't kill Dalshien off when he starts to slow us down (immediately in chapter 8) in this sort of rank...

Edited by Cait Sith, 21 April 2010 - 06:32 PM.


#12 Salad Utensil

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 06:37 PM

Why is Dalshien above Glade? Chapter 6x and 7(because he's doing dick in chapter 8 and 9)? I would take Glade making his opening chapter's castle unconquerable so LEaf's team can actually complete the chapter and then his leadership star making leadership heavy chapters more bearable (for example, the route split with Cyrus, him and other leadership giving units make crossing hte bridge and reaching the fortress far more bearable than without) over Dalshien being a hurf-a-durf for his chapters. From there, I'd also take his decent stats, weapon rank and mobility over whatever the hell Dalshien has.

Base Glade: 34 HP, 11 Str, 2 Mag, 12 Skill, 11 Speed, 4 Luck, 10 Def, 12 Build

15/1 Fin: 34.8 HP, 12.8 Str, 2.4 Mag, 13.4 Skill, 15.8 Speed, 8.6 Luck, 11.4 Def, 10.8 Build

He's barely that different from Fin. Fin seems faster, but not by much thanks to his build, as he can feel it reduced by Javelins and anything heavier. He'd still be faster, but it's there. Get this, he didn't need a promotion item either.

Oh right, did I mention he supports the ever-godly Fin (or can)? I dunno about you, but giving 10 crit and avoid to the dude with the +10 Luck giving Brave Lance sounds pretty awesome to me. Yet again though, how can Dalshien counter this? He cannot, because he is a gimp.

Furthermore, he's got A rank lances, of which probably only Fin would otherwise have until Dean shows up (who has his own personal lance anyways). He's got good excuse to pack silver.

It's too bad we can't kill Dalshien off when he starts to slow us down (immediately in chapter 8) in this sort of rank...

I tend to just "forget" to have him escape during chapter 5 and re-recruit him in chapter 21X(?). Dalshien is pretty useful to capture with and tank during the manster chapters though so I tend to think he should go under where-ever Eyval is on this list since his moments to shine are limited, but then (for me) gets to disappear for the rest of the game :newyears: .

#13 Don Draper

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 06:48 PM

Fair point about Ethel. I was going too far into the assumption that we're going for minimum turns, when in fact we have a bit of leniancy (6 turn completion instead of 4 for Chapter 1 as an example). She can probably drop.

Glade isn't quite as good as the other filler prepromotes, but he does have a leadership star which counts for something (although you mentioned Cyrus, we would be partially warp skipping 17A). I'll move him up for now. Only problem is I see a significant performance gap between Glade and Xavier (Glade only really has Chapter 14 to be useful; 15 is useless for mounted units; 16A is warpskipped unless you want to reduce turncount in other chapters; 17A is partially warpskipped and 18 is indoors. Then Xavier>>>him). This tier list is new though, so I'll worry about that later.

Next thing I'm unsure about is whether the growth units could fall to bottom. There's really not enough time to make them useful. A Marty vs. Alva comparison could be made for example

Edited by IOS, 21 April 2010 - 06:51 PM.


#14 grandjackal

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 11:28 PM

Let's just review how flexible Amalda is.

-She has a mount. This comes with great movement, canto, and being able to capture nearly everything. Obvious advantages.

-Actual sword rank, so being dismounted indoors is not anything close to how bad other mounts suffer indoors.

-Staff rank for all the staff goodness she can manage. No warp, but can still use some level of staffs.

-Leadership star, to help counteract leadership heavy maps. Her, Glade, Fin, Nanna, Delmud, and the King Sword would give a total, through leadership, an amazing +39% avoid and hit. Get Sety in there, that's 42%, Cryus is 48%. Let's say someone had max speed and luck (for how late it is and the fact you have scrolls, not out of imagination). We'd start you off with an additional 23.4 avoid. 83.4 avoid, basically nullifies Jormungand's hit and beats it to the negatives of -13.4. Unless the basic enemies of lategame have huge skill and luck, this is significantly boosting the survivability of your team, and Amalda's helping add on.

-Adept. Always nice.

Now, let's see who's above her.

Tanya

-Forced chapter utility.

...That's it? Come on, I highly doubt Tanya's doing anything to outperform the flexibility that is Amalda. I would easily take what Amalda could be capable of just in the final chapter over just...Tanya.

#15 Aquilae

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 03:28 AM

Carrion > Machua. Carrion has a mount and 4 PCC, and better growths than Machua except in Speed. Carrion also has Lances giving him higher Mt and damage against weighed down enemies. Machua does have better Weapon Ranks, but Carrion's better Str and Mov would offset that, along with his ability to use Lances.

I think Marty could stand a chance against Kein and Alva as well. He is decent in his forced period as well as the chapters after 8, and can be okay in a pinch with his great promo gains. Kein and Alva remain sub-par, and are gimped indoor as well. 5 Mov and being locked to Swords is very bad.

Also, Amalda's lategame contributions are marginal at best. Her leadership star doesn't count for that much as it only provides a bit of evasion, but she can use a Sleep Staff with the Fire Sword to Sleep stuff, and the Master Sword and Libro which is great. I'm not sure if Tanya's forced period and the later chapters, in which she is mediocre at best, can beat that.

Also to IOS, I went really slow in the first few chapters, so you could probably subtract a few turns from Chapters 1-5 and add them to 18, because Xavier is hard to recruit within 14 turns. I think around 20 turns would be more or less acceptable as you may not have as much capable units / resources on hand to deal with the Chapter, unlike the SSS runs on Elite Mode.

#16 Don Draper

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 01:26 AM

The one thing I'm hesitant with about Carrion>Machua is that Machua has the Manster chapters which should be plenty of time to give her a reasonable level advantage over Carrion. I'm not sure what level your Machua was when coming out of Manster but its something to look into. I'll do a direct comparison soon.

I agree with Marty>Kein/Alva and will drop them down to bottom.

I also agree with Amalda>Tanya, just because even C staves still give her plenty of flexibility, and she can easily use a 1 use Elite Sword in her inventory to propel her level up (although your only real chance to do this is in Chapter 20). I think I'll put Amalda>Tanya for now, just because Tanya is barely used in earlygame chapters, and therefore comes at a level disadvantage when coming out of 8x. I wonder how she does against the Chapter 9 dragons though...

I'll rethink turncounts, and actually plan to AAA rank the game myself (highest rank I've received is A). I've already pulled off a 4 turn completion of Chapter 1/2 and an 8 turn completion of Chapter 2x (I still can't figure out how to 6 turn Chapter 3 without RNG abuse). 20 turns for Xavier sounds fine with me, although I still think around 14 turns might be possible as long as your unarmed unit is durable enough (enemy density is low outside the throne room). I'll have a look at it when doing my playthrough. More leniency in later chapters would be nice, since potential exp would probably increase.

#17 Mekkah

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 04:10 AM

She has a mount. This comes with great movement, canto, and being able to capture nearly everything. Obvious advantages.


There's too little outdoors left after Amalda joins for this to be a very significant point.

Leadership star, to help counteract leadership heavy maps. Her, Glade, Fin, Nanna, Delmud, and the King Sword would give a total, through leadership, an amazing +39% avoid and hit. Get Sety in there, that's 42%, Cryus is 48%. Let's say someone had max speed and luck (for how late it is and the fact you have scrolls, not out of imagination). We'd start you off with an additional 23.4 avoid. 83.4 avoid, basically nullifies Jormungand's hit and beats it to the negatives of -13.4. Unless the basic enemies of lategame have huge skill and luck, this is significantly boosting the survivability of your team, and Amalda's helping add on.


That's great, but she's adding 3%, not 48%. This is like saying Ronan is great because combined with Tanya, Alva, Kein, Robert, Eda and Marty, they would be able to kill a 50 hp enemy because they're all doing like 9 damage.

Now, let's see who's above her.

Tanya

-Forced chapter utility.

...That's it? Come on, I highly doubt Tanya's doing anything to outperform the flexibility that is Amalda. I would easily take what Amalda could be capable of just in the final chapter over just...Tanya.


Why did you not mention how Tanya gives Othin and Dagda 10% support? Or at least her potential as a growth unit? Not that she'll ever reach the potential, but you're cutting her awfully short.

#18 grandjackal

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 09:41 AM

There's too little outdoors left after Amalda joins for this to be a very significant point.


Eh, I suppose that's true.

That's great, but she's adding 3%, not 48%. This is like saying Ronan is great because combined with Tanya, Alva, Kein, Robert, Eda and Marty, they would be able to kill a 50 hp enemy because they're all doing like 9 damage.


Regardless, she helps stack onto this.

Why did you not mention how Tanya gives Othin and Dagda 10% support?


How often does this come into play, especially with her "fantastic combat" not encouraging me to field her more often?

Let's also go over the logistics of it. I believe that since this is a bond, they have to be right next to eachother. For when they go melee, if she's not doing enough damage that they need a crit to kill what she just shot at, then she is just failing at her job of chipping, further encouraging me not to use her. Given the situation on enemy phase, that bond is somewhat pointless as he has Wrath. Dagdar's also got capable ways of dealing with range as he has bows too along with hand axes. If he attacks something at range, chances are that Tanya won't be standing right next to him when she attacks something.

Really, it only helps Dagdar perhaps avoid a few Duels causing him to eat more attacks, and even then it's not like it's by much thanks to his 1 PCC. Idon't think it's an earthshattering deal in this comparison.

Or at least her potential as a growth unit? Not that she'll ever reach the potential, but you're cutting her awfully short.


Considering Ronan starts significantly better (1 more Str, has good enough speed anyways, has more build at base than she does at 20/20, has Adept, support from the everpresent Leaf), I really am not convinced I want to train her in the first place.

Though that does bring me to an interesting question. I know Adept attacks in FE10 don't build weapon rank, but do they in this game?

#19 dondon151

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 09:45 AM

I believe that since this is a bond, they have to be right next to eachother.

"Supports may be one-way. The support bonus is to accuracy, avoid, critical and critical evade, and comes into effect when the supporting characters are within 3 squares radius of one another."

PLEASE check you information. That is quite literally 2 clicks away from the main page.

#20 Rodykitty

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 10:11 AM

Really, it only helps Dagdar perhaps avoid a few Duels causing him to eat more attacks, and even then it's not like it's by much thanks to his 1 PCC. Idon't think it's an earthshattering deal in this comparison.

+10 crit while potentially quad-attacking units. It's still a significant increase outside of PCC.

Killing before a Duel trigger is significant because it's making the most out of a single hit for a character with accuracy problems.

Not taking an extra counter doesn't cause you to eat more attacks, it causes you to have the same durability while potentially killing more on the enemy phase.

And Tanya support increases accuracy (which is very important to Dagda), evasion (helping avoid counters on said enemy phase), and critical evade (it's possible to see existing crit rates due to FE5's formula).

Considering Ronan starts significantly better (1 more Str, has good enough speed anyways, has more build at base than she does at 20/20, has Adept, support from the everpresent Leaf), I really am not convinced I want to train her in the first place.

What's cool is that Tanya surpasses Ronan statistically in just a couple of levels.

Ronan has a cool skill, but that's because IS is trying to tell us how overpowered these skills are by giving them to a unit that can't outdamage units that don't carry these skills. Tanya's high skill, 2 PCC, and actual strength growth are going to carry her more than landing 4 hits for 5 damage as if it were an FE9 Astra proc.

Ronan's only win that will last beyond Tanya growing three levels is mobility via 7 Move and re-move.




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