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H3 (Lunatic) Tier List


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#61 grandjackal

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 02:13 PM

Caesar/Radd not in bottom?


Why would they not be bottom? They barely qualify as better than Samuto. In fact, Raddy's just a weaker version of Sammy while Ceasar's just a slightly tougher one. All 3 of them don't have the speed it takes to be useful. Freaking Navarre barely has the speed to muster.

Sammy and these 2 clowns should basically be right next to eachother (The trio of which I am now dubbing the joker, the smoker and the midnight toker)

Warren above Ryan, despite the fact that he is literally worse in EVERY SINGLE WAY?


Ryan again has the utility of prologue (even dondon has pointed out before that he simply makes it possible unless you're using MU Armor), so no, Warren wouldn't be above him if just on that. Only thing I see Warren's got going for him is superior bases and 1 more move, but I'm not 100% sure how much utility Warren can muster from his join time onward.

#62 Don Draper

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 02:18 PM

Grandjackal, he was pointing out flaws in the other tier list posted <_<

#63 Blutritter

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 02:21 PM

SDS consulted with me, Paperblade, IOS, and Colonel M in #feto for this list. I can assure you, we've probably put more thought into this list than you have into yours, considering it's, you know, 5 people to 1.

I don't know what kinds of turtling strategies you employ, but you are falling into the same trap that early FEDS tier list debaters did: healers do not level quickly under the assumption of efficient play. Furthermore, the gains from promoting healers are minimal. They have 6 move compared to promoted 7-8 move for most foot units and 10 move for paladins, FKs, and DKs. Good luck blitzing with general equivalent move.


Uh......like I said, no turtling was involved. All those heads knocking and yet you don't seem to realize how much staff EXP exceeds that of combat. Just speak for yourself. Those other superior movement classes more suited for enemy phase still can't use staves, and badly hurting units is not a rarity. BTW, you might as well be upfront with me and quit mincing. I know how heated your interest is in low turn counts, but this site isn't Speed Demos Archive, and this game isn't Shadow Dragon. No warp is received early, and you have to be somewhat conservative with rescue + hammerne because the latter vanishes after only 3 uses and I think it's given you're going to want the former to last as far as lategame.

Furthermore, the gains from promoting healers are minimal.


Oh, please. Yeah, every bit as minimal as promoting some healer from any other Fire Emblem because healing + attacking <<<< healing as command options. Gains are gains, dude.

They have 6 move compared to promoted 7-8 move for most foot units and 10 move for paladins, FKs, and DKs. Good luck blitzing with general equivalent move.


Meaning it's easier for them to reach some pure melee who might be retreating from elsewhere or can't subsist off vulneraries alone or only for so long.

Warren above Ryan, despite the fact that he is literally worse in EVERY SINGLE WAY?


One more movement and higher bases for a ranged unit = worse? What makes extra chip damage for the prologue so much better than requiring mad attention to reach Warren's starting speed?

#64 grandjackal

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 02:24 PM

Grandjackal, he was pointing out flaws in the other tier list posted <_<


...In which case...I uhh...Fleshed out the arguments as to help SDS with pointing out flaws in the other tier list. ;;>>

#65 Super Mecha Death Christ

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 02:24 PM

Forgive me for being an idiot, but what's Free Silver and No Contest? I mean, no contest sounds obvious, right, but if so, why isn't it just the highest tier?

#66 Mr. Francis York Morgan

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 02:32 PM

Forgive me for being an idiot, but what's Free Silver and No Contest? I mean, no contest sounds obvious, right, but if so, why isn't it just the highest tier?

Free Silver is the only benefit you provide to the team is your starting weapon. All of these characters suck at join time. Healing/Trading doesn't count for utility. Thus the only benefit they may provide on a run is the weapon they give you which may or may not be worth actually getting.

Basically it's super duper bottom tier.

No contest is a giant seize/healer/thief/my unit argument of epic proportions.

#67 Super Mecha Death Christ

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 02:36 PM

Free Silver is the only benefit you provide to the team is your starting weapon. All of these characters suck at join time. Healing/Trading doesn't count for utility. Thus the only benefit they may provide on a run is the weapon they give you which may or may not be worth actually getting.

Basically it's super duper bottom tier.


Wow, really? So Michalis is that bad? He looks pretty decent to me. Then again, I don't know his growth rates and stuff.

#68 Paperblade

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 02:37 PM

One more movement and higher bases for a ranged unit = worse? What makes extra chip damage for the prologue so much better than requiring mad attention to reach Warren's starting speed?


Merged class sets. Ryan can go Hunter. Warren's only real lead is 2 base Speed, but if Ryan is level 5 or above, he doesn't even have that.

#69 Mr. Francis York Morgan

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 02:39 PM

Wow, really? So Michalis is that bad? He looks pretty decent to me. Then again, I don't know his growth rates and stuff.

With merged class sets he would actually have 28 base speed as a swordmaster.

#70 Sploosh

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 02:40 PM

He can go Hero and keep his Axe rank too.

#71 Blutritter

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 02:40 PM

Merged class sets.


Don't care about those atm. You're not taking into account the first completion of Lunatic which is still required to unlock them and is every bit as valid, besides.

#72 grandjackal

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 02:40 PM

Merged class sets. Ryan can go Hunter. Warren's only real lead is 2 base Speed, but if Ryan is level 5 or above, he doesn't even have that.


Speaking of which, Gordon as a hunter ties in speed, wins in HP and ties Def while having a whopping 3 more Str and more availability.

#73 dondon151

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 02:43 PM

Uh......like I said, no turtling was involved. All those heads knocking and yet you don't seem to realize how much staff EXP exceeds that of combat. Just speak for yourself. Those other superior movement classes more suited for enemy phase still can't use staves, and badly hurting units is not a rarity. BTW, you might as well be upfront with me and quit mincing.

We're drawing on Paperblade's full H3 experience and our collective experience with staff users in ever other FE game. Aside from the empirical evidence, drawing a logical conclusion from previous games dictates that staff EXP is difficult to obtain.

My customer service background prevents me from being brazenly inflammatory. I'm sorry, I can't help it.

I know how heated your interest is in low turn counts, but this site isn't Speed Demos Archive, and this game isn't Shadow Dragon. No warp is received early, and you have to be somewhat conservative with rescue + hammerne because the latter vanishes after only 3 uses and I think it's given you're going to want the former to last as far as lategame.

It is not up to you to decide what the objective of the tier list is. If you don't have a clear objective in mind, you cannot tier units with precision. Furthermore, Shadow Dragon or not, the game still gives you enough resources to rush through chapters. Warp didn't make much of a difference in Shadow Dragon until midgame, and earlygame enemies hit about as hard as they do in both games.

Oh, please. Yeah, every bit as minimal as promoting some healer from any other Fire Emblem because healing + attacking <<<< healing as command options. Gains are gains, dude.

Compared to DK, FK, paladin, swordmaster, sniper, hero, and berserker, healer promotion gains pale in comparison. Think about it this way: when you promote a healer, your only option is to remain in a magic class. When you promote a class set A unit, you get access to both flying and grounded 10 move classes plus automatic access to Wyrmslayer as SM. When you promote a class set B unit, if he used axes, he gets access to the class with the second highest base spd and an offensive powerhouse. Physical units are incredibly more versatile than magic units.

Meaning it's easier for them to reach some pure melee who might be retreating from elsewhere or can't subsist off vulneraries alone or only for so long.

Explain to me how 6 move is better than 5 move at catching up to 8 or 10 move. If you're left in the dust, it does not matter if you are left in the dust by hair or by a furlong.

One more movement and higher bases for a ranged unit = worse? What makes extra chip damage for the prologue so much better than requiring mad attention to reach Warren's starting speed?

The assumption that Ryan and Warren make poor long term units, that's what. If you kicked out, say, Luke in order to train Warren, would you think that Warren has actually helped you at all? Now, I admit that archers are incredibly clutch against the earlygame DKs (I put them there in the first place), but this sort of situational utility can only extend so far.

Don't care about those atm. You're not taking into account the first completion of Lunatic which is still required to unlock them and is every bit as valid, besides.

I'm pretty sure that you do not need to complete H3 in order to merge the class sets.

Edited by dondon151, 26 July 2010 - 02:46 PM.


#74 Sirius

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 02:45 PM

Don't care about those atm. You're not taking into account the first completion of Lunatic which is still required to unlock them and is every bit as valid, besides.

Unlocked after beating HARD mode.

Also, Berserker Michalis. 24 SPD, boosted Axe WEXP so he's closer to using A rank Axe and he'll grow to avoid being doubled by most enemies. If that doesn't work, Hero class.

Edited by Sirius, 26 July 2010 - 02:46 PM.


#75 Super Mecha Death Christ

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 02:49 PM

So it seems I'm right to suspect Michalis being too low in the list. You have to keep in mind that people will class swap in the game.

#76 dondon151

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 02:50 PM

The main issue that Paperblade had with Michalis is that he has 2 luk against 15-20 enemy crit. When you risk a 1 in 7 to 1 in 6 chance to die against any enemy attack... that's bad. This is compounded by the fact that he only has Maria to give +cev, but Maria only appears in the final chapter.

Edited by dondon151, 26 July 2010 - 02:53 PM.


#77 Mr. Francis York Morgan

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 02:50 PM

Unlocked after beating HARD mode.

Also, Berserker Michalis. 24 SPD, boosted Axe WEXP so he's closer to using A rank Axe and he'll grow to avoid being doubled by most enemies. If that doesn't work, Hero class.

His only problem is his luck. We can easily fix his other stats with a booster or two and he is good to go for the rest of the game.

Damn. Just checked his supports. Nothing except Maria goes to A rank so he is not gonna get any +5 crit evades.

#78 grandjackal

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 02:51 PM

Also, Berserker Michalis. 24 SPD, boosted Axe WEXP so he's closer to using A rank Axe and he'll grow to avoid being doubled by most enemies. If that doesn't work, Hero class.


Hero Michalis has 26 AS maxed speed, which is just enough to always be doubled by dragons without speed potions (26 Speed are hero caps), since the shards and Star Orb are essentially out of our hands.

#79 dondon151

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 02:53 PM

Speed potions won't break caps anyway.

#80 Sirius

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 02:53 PM

Hero Michalis has 26 AS maxed speed, which is just enough to always be doubled by dragons without speed potions (26 Speed are hero caps), since the shards and Star Orb are essentially out of our hands.

I'm aware. Hero if for whatever reason he can't level up and get the SPD needed to avoid being double by 28 or 29 SPD enemies. I haven't looked at how fast people level up in those last chapters. 3 SPD level ups or a Speedwing and a SPD level up to avoid being doubled.... Speed potion if you wanna go that far.




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