356 replies to this topic

[eclipse]

There is literally no evidence to support this Guy = Gui nonsense. It could be that way, or it could be the British pronunciation, which is simply how the gender is pronounced. Of course, I can't comment on this whole "katakana" point, but I'm going to assume it's a complete fabrication so that I may continue to live in a fantasy world where Guy = Guy.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n08/ae7j/chara/index.html

Go argue with the official site.

[Geriba]

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n08/ae7j/chara/index.html

Go argue with the official site.

eclipse: Overlooking sarcasm since 2011.

In seriousness, I'm surprised dondon didn't mention the possible River Path strategy for Chapter 13, which also allows for a 6-turn completion. It involves using Hector to rescue Marcus and bring him over the river, and I've employed it effectively before, most recently in my SOYO playthrough. Though I'd be interested to see this possible 5-turn for myself...

Edited by Jaffar7, 04 February 2011 - 12:24 PM.

[dondon151]

I totally forgot that lords can cross rivers. It usually isn't a useful trait because of how slow it is, particularly since on this map the river is 2 tiles wide at all of the locations that you'd want to cross over.

[Red Fox of Fire]

It also helps that I believe the katakana support this, being ギィ.

Tangent: In the past I (unsuccessfully) tried to convince the translator of a fan translation project (for a different game) that this was the proper pronunciation, and the result was the unfortunate use of Gii throughout the game.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n08/ae7j/chara/index.html

Go argue with the official site.

Somehow I doubt the localization team expected us to say "Gee." "Guy" (pronounced gie) is a legitimate name in English and is used fairly commonly. However, I also don't think dondon wants his topic cluttered in a pronunciation discussion, so I'll leave it at that.

[dondon151]

Somehow I doubt the localization team expected us to say "Gee." "Guy" (pronounced gie) is a legitimate name in English and is used fairly commonly. However, I also don't think dondon wants his topic cluttered in a pronunciation discussion, so I'll leave it at that.

I was originally on pronouncing it like you would the English word, but having taken French in high school, and also after checking the katakana, I decided to go with the pronunciation in the video.

The NoA localization is usually fairly close to the Japanese names, unless the localized name is completely different.

[Red Fox of Fire]

I was originally on pronouncing it like you would the English word, but having taken French in high school, and also after checking the katakana, I decided to go with the pronunciation in the video.

The NoA localization is usually fairly close to the Japanese names, unless the localized name is completely different.

I'm not saying you're wrong. It's not like I can prove it. It's just what my speculation leads me to believe. In the end it will just be another unanswered mystery of Fire Emblem.

But enough of that. Post more videos!

[dondon151]

Chapter 13 (alternate strategy):


Since there is no continuity between this attempt and the rest of my playthrough, it will have to stand alone just as a point of reference.

About the randomized starting positions: the starting positions listed on FEWoD (http://www.fireemble...7/hhm/cap13.htm) are the same as in my playthrough. This leads me to believe that it's either a coincidence or that there is a default starting conformation that changes depending on a certain yet unknown variable.

One last note about risk: Marcus does have to not get crit by Guy in this chapter. Guy also needs to either not get hit by Marcus's counterattack or have one of the brigand or archer miss. The brigands both have 0 hit on Guy when he is on a fort.

(Oh by the way I suddenly moved closer to the mic at around 2:29)

Edited by dondon151, 05 February 2011 - 04:01 AM.

[Mekkah]

I just realized that this videos have sound.

[Geriba]

Appreciate the shout-out in the video! It's like I'm a part of FE7 history.

"...but I'm not sure how adequate it [the river strategy] is at completing the other chapter objectives." -- dondon

I confess that I've never done a 5-turn completion while saving both villages using the river strategy, but I'd suspect that it's certainly possible. The upper-left village is easily secured, and the mine village can be saved without too much hassle with a Lowen blitz after clearing out some of the enemy debris (the nasty archers in particular). The real problem I could see would be in recruiting Guy, which wasn't an issue on my SOYO run (as I hadn't drafted him), but definitely would be on an efficiency playthrough.

I don't have access to an FE7 rom (as my cartridge battery is still alive, I try to go all-natural to avoid the temptation to use states, etc.), but if someone wants to do some experimenting, I'd love to see if such a strategy is doable. At the end of the day, it's not going to be any better in terms of turn count... but there's something really novel about crossing the river that just feels right.

Edited by Jaffar7, 05 February 2011 - 12:14 PM.

[dondon151]

Appreciate the shout-out in the video! It's like I'm a part of FE7 history.

"...but I'm not sure how adequate it [the river strategy] is at completing the other chapter objectives." -- dondon

I confess that I've never done a 5-turn completion while saving both villages using the river strategy, but I'd suspect that it's certainly possible. The upper-left village is easily secured, and the mine village can be saved without too much hassle with a Lowen blitz after clearing out some of the enemy debris (the nasty archers in particular). The real problem I could see would be in recruiting Guy, which wasn't an issue on my SOYO run (as I hadn't drafted him), but definitely would be on an efficiency playthrough.

I don't have access to an FE7 rom (as my cartridge battery is still alive, I try to go all-natural to avoid the temptation to use states, etc.), but if someone wants to do some experimenting, I'd love to see if such a strategy is doable. At the end of the day, it's not going to be any better in terms of turn count... but there's something really novel about crossing the river that just feels right.

Actually, on a growths run, if Hector is at a high enough level (namely, has like +2 or +3 str on base to OHKO cavs with Wolf Beil), I don't think he even needs Marcus's help. He could theoretically reach the tile in front of Boies on turn 4.

[Geriba]

Actually, on a growths run, if Hector is at a high enough level (namely, has like +2 or +3 str on base to OHKO cavs with Wolf Beil), I don't think he even needs Marcus's help. He could theoretically reach the tile in front of Boies on turn 4.

I'm going to try and verify this (as well as future possible discrepancies) by running a growth playthrough alongside your 0% playthrough, using your strategies as a base and seeing if there are more possibilities with a few key stat gains. I've already got one example: if it's true that the RNs are aligned in a set way at the beginning of a new game (in regards to the supposed "guaranteed six-turn Ch.11 completion" via the southern route), then in taking the west route, you can burn two RNs after Matthew opens the door, dodge the archer and the soldier's attack, and retain enough HP to survive Wire's attacks; that means a six-turn completion is possible both ways. And for what it's worth, you get a wonderful level-up to boot!

EDIT: Just tested this twice more with two separate files and, yes, it's guaranteed. I might post a video of it later.

Edited by Jaffar7, 05 February 2011 - 01:34 PM.

[eclipse]

I wish I knew that before I dumped 20 RNs so that Hector survives. . .

Mind posting videos of the growth run?

[dondon151]

(in regards to the supposed "guaranteed six-turn Ch.11 completion" via the southern route), then in taking the west route, you can burn two RNs after Matthew opens the door, dodge the archer and the soldier's attack, and retain enough HP to survive Wire's attacks; that means a six-turn completion is possible both ways. And for what it's worth, you get a wonderful level-up to boot!

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying, but the 6 turn I originally had in mind is indeed taking the west route. I was pointing out in the video commentary that it is theoretically possible to complete in 6 turns via the south route if Hector is completely unobstructed, but the chances of success are so little that it won't happen short of a TAS.

[Geriba]

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying, but the 6 turn I originally had in mind is indeed taking the west route. I was pointing out in the video commentary that it is theoretically possible to complete in 6 turns via the south route if Hector is completely unobstructed, but the chances of success are so little that it won't happen short of a TAS.

I see. Either way, your 7-turn could have been made into a guaranteed 6-turn by burning two RNs after Matthew opens the door, which is my point.

[chococoke]

Kind of early to be asking, but which PFoD did you attend and for what reasons? To be honest, I'm just using that question as an excuse to bump this thread and coax another video out of you...

[Colonel M]

Kenneth's. Jerme's is a route while Kenneth's is a seize throne.

[Geriba]

After doing a comprehensive analysis of dondon's Chapter 12 run, I've got to conclude that he seriously underrepresented the sheer amount of luck involved with a successful four-turn completion.

Hit			True Hit
72			84.6
73			85.69
92			98.8
92			98.8
92			98.8
76			88.72
76			88.72
50*			50.5
30			18.3
50 then 90*		50.5 then 98.1			
93x2 (one hits)		~100
74			86.74
75			87.75
77			89.65
60			68.4
2 (crit)		2
90			98.1
91			98.47
78			90.54
78			90.54

Those are all the hits that absolutely have to land.
* -> dondon didn't make this clear, but the enemy PK and mercenary have no preference between attacking Hector versus Matthew (I'm assuming it's a 50/50 split). If the mercenary hits, the PK will always follow after; but even if the mercenary chooses Hector, the PK may still got for Matty.

And the final odds are... *drumroll*

TOTAL: .000186240495794

You're not reading that wrong: without any RNG abuse, the odds of a C.12 four-turn completion are about 2% in 1%, or .018%. That's something like one in ten thousand. In other words, dondon RNG abused (and all of you who wish to do a minimum-turn run need to).

Edited by Jaffar7, 10 February 2011 - 04:01 PM.

[Narga_Rocks]

Ok, first off I'll say that dondon does way more chancy things than I'd like to assume for efficiency lists. However, are you sure every single on of those are necessary to hit? That there isn't going to be some contingency plan if some of those miss that allows you to still pull off 4 turns? I'd find it amazing if he needs every single one of those. Not to mention since he does this type of thing in every video. 1 out of more than 5000. Since he does this nearly each time, wouldn't that take thousands upon thousands of attempts before he pulls it off?

[dondon151]

I hope you're trying to be funny.

Anyway, I do take advantage of the fact that the RNG is predictable to manipulate attack order so that higher numbers in the sequence will be used on higher hit rates or on level ups. And naturally, any specific sequence of actions that involve many ~90% hit rates is going to have a large chance at failure simply because the fraction accumulates. But like Narga said, I don't have the patience for strategies that theoretically almost never work. Look at the RD 0% growth run, for example, where the RNG is not predictable and I have to go through an entire chapter without a fatal miss.

The recorded strategy is obviously not the only viable one either. Gergeshwan has recorded a 4 turn completion of chapter 12 at least twice using the fixed growths patch, where the RNG is not predictable and RNG abuse is not possible. I also only needed the 2% crit on the brigand because Hector missed the PK at like 80 hit. Not counting that, the chance of success for that particular sequence of actions is 1%, which is fairly reasonable.

Edited by dondon151, 10 February 2011 - 04:49 PM.

[Geriba]

No, I'm not trying to "be funny." I'm pointing out how contingent your strategy is upon luck and RNG manipulation, even if it is the optimal one. Unlike other chapters (and this goes to your point, Narga), every single hit IS required here, as it's a route chapter and the number of viable PCs is sparse. Your point about the critical not being necessary is wrong, by the way: if the hit had been a regular one, even with a hit upon the PK, one enemy unit would still be left alive, requiring an extra turn. And it's not 1%, it's .02%. That's just absurdly unlikely without serious RNG abuse.

On a lighter note, I've devised a way to do the River Route for Ch.13, even on a 0% growth playthrough, that accomplishes all of the objectives in 5 turns. That means saving both villages, recruiting Guy, and shopping. I might post it online if I can figure out how to record and comment on videos.