Jump to content


Photo

Final Fantasy Tactics Efficiency Tier List


  • Please log in to reply
75 replies to this topic

#1 Tyrant Sage

Tyrant Sage

    1337 Tyrant

  • Member
  • Gender:Male
  • Favorite Fire Emblem Game:New Mystery of the Emblem

Posted 27 June 2011 - 04:52 PM

So since Granjackal and I have been playing FFT efficiently (both of us sort of going for low turn counts, but him moreso while I go for a more LLG as well), I decided to sort the best classes in the game among the worst for efficiency. So some guidelines:

-Minimum JP grinding. We're assuming for example, that you are not using or unlocking classes like Ninja and Lancer until Chapter 2, Calculators until very late Chapter 3 and Mimes not until early Chapter 4. This also affects which abilities might be learned and which might not. Since we're assuming minimum JP and level grinding, this means that the difficulty of getting all of the Math Skill abilities is counted against it.
-Propositions ARE however allowed. Propositions is basically quicker JP grinding without level grinding. They're also limited in supply, so you can't just do them over and over.
-If the guidelines need improvement or some need to be added/gotten rid of, please tell me.

And now without further ado:

Top
Summoner
Wizard
Monk
Ninja
Squire (Ramza)
Time Mage

High Tier
Holy Swordsman
Geomancer
Oracle
Priest
Chemist

Upper Mid
Engineer
Holy Knight
Archer
Temple Knight

Low Mid
Red Chocobo
Chocobo
Lancer
Samurai
Knight

Low
Black Chocobo
Mediator
Divine Knight
Squire
Thief

Bottom
Dancer
Mime
Bard
Heaven Knight
Hell Knight
Dragonier
Soldier
Calculator

This list is most likely HIGHLY inaccurate, so please help.

Edited by Tyrant Sage, 19 June 2012 - 09:42 AM.


#2 Radiant Dragon

Radiant Dragon

    Back for some mayhem

  • Member
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mountain Time: GMT -7 hours
  • Favorite Fire Emblem Game:Blazing Sword

Posted 27 June 2011 - 05:12 PM

Not sure about Priest > Chemist. They may have more MA and Holy, but Items require no charge and have 100% accuracy.

I don't think Calculator should be that low. It's not like you need to get every single ability for Math Skill to be useful.

Do you think we could have two lists, one with monsters and one without? Also, do you have any plans to add the unique playable classes like Holy Knight or Engineer?

#3 grandjackal

grandjackal

    u mad breh?

  • Member
  • Gender:Male
  • Favorite Fire Emblem Game:Shadow Dragon

Posted 27 June 2011 - 05:13 PM

Ok, who is this "we"? we might be doing runs at the same time, but I don't think we agreed to any collaboration of sorts. Just seems misleading.

Secondly, monsters should just...Not be included. 1. It makes the list unecessarily humongous, and 2. Monster capturing in an efficient run? Hilarious thought, but it's definitely not worth the effort. The only monsters that just automatically joins the team is Chocobo, so only the chocobos should be measured.

Thirdly, I'm going to make a safe bet and say that Knight is an awful class. There are no redeeming abilities it has, any heavy-armor class can basically do the same thing it does (not die) with abilities that are actually worth a damn, and the only redeeming factor it has (Knightswords) is eliminated by the fact that Orlandu and Agrias are going to take them. The only reason to ever go into that class is to get the prerequisites for future classes. I doubt that's high tier material.

I also wouldn't quite jump the gun with Wizards being in their own tier. Certainly they're powerful as hell and their abilities are worh the effort to get, but I get the feeling I'll get better stuff later. They're just an incredibly powerful stepping stone.

#4 Tyrant Sage

Tyrant Sage

    1337 Tyrant

  • Member
  • Gender:Male
  • Favorite Fire Emblem Game:New Mystery of the Emblem

Posted 27 June 2011 - 05:17 PM

Yeah, I was having doubts about putting monsters on the list. So I'll get rid of them.

In my experience, I've played with Wizards and they've been the single biggest contribution to my low turncounts. Basically by the end of Part 1, my wizard was at level 12 while the rest of my team were levels 5-8. That's how good they are.

For knights, they're your best tanks early on and your best damage dealers. They have bad move, but you can equip Battle Boots and Move +1 on them and they'll be pretty good. They also have robes and their magic isn't bad, so they can make passable backup mages if you need them for some odd reason. Part 4, they get Knightswords to use which is nice.

I wasn't sure whether or not to put the other special classes in because then I'd have to be dealing with the characters associated with them too, which might get ugly.

Edited by Sagekitty, 27 June 2011 - 05:21 PM.


#5 Rodykitty

Rodykitty

    Member

  • Member
  • Gender:Male
  • Favorite Fire Emblem Game:Mystery of the Emblem

Posted 27 June 2011 - 05:21 PM

I don't see why monsters shouldn't be on the list. They're playable, controllable units. It's not like they're Merlinus.

#6 grandjackal

grandjackal

    u mad breh?

  • Member
  • Gender:Male
  • Favorite Fire Emblem Game:Shadow Dragon

Posted 27 June 2011 - 05:33 PM

Not sure about Priest > Chemist. They may have more MA and Holy, but Items require no charge and have 100% accuracy.


Well, this is sort of a complex thing to think over if you get into it. First off, Chemist contributions early onare quite huge, since one chemist essentially allows your whole team the basic necessities of potions and phoenix downs, so early on they allow you to be perfectly safe. Priests while being inferior to Wizards are still a good choice just to have so it can possibly teach the team Cure so you don't have to even waste money on potions since you just have a team that can network Cure heal. That, and Priest has actual magic as to allow better use of Wizard spells than Chemist, of whom only have guns really late in to retaliate with.

Still, it's a surprisingly close call when you give it thought.

I don't think Calculator should be that low. It's not like you need to get every single ability for Math Skill to be useful.


Have you actually ever tried to use a Calculator in efficient play?

1. Their stats are awful in every sense of the word.

2. No good weapon or armor choices.

3. You need to purchase 3 of their expensive-ass abilities so they have a basic semblence of actual function, and even then it's an incredibly situational function of which may only end up backfiring since it means abilities will hurt allies as well.

4. The damage they do with magic is pitiful, and this sucks considering that the entire time you have to use them you basically only have the choice of magic.

5. By the time you finally buy all of their shit to make them as powerful as they can possibly be, it most likely is stupid late in the game, and most likely will not make up for the turns they lost us with their horrible assness.

Calcs are right where they deserve to be.

Do you think we could have two lists, one with monsters and one without? Also, do you have any plans to add the unique playable classes like Holy Knight or Engineer?


Unique classes aren't up already?

In my experience, I've played with Wizards and they've been the single biggest contribution to my low turncounts. Basically by the end of Part 1, my wizard was at level 12 while the rest of my team were levels 5-8. That's how good they are.


I have to wonder if our turncounts are similar, cause those levels seem...High.

For knights, they're your best tanks early on


Surviving early on is hardly an issue when everyone on your team can easily have Items with Potions. Hell, you have 2 NPCs whom you can equip Potion on, they'll be more than happy to heal you. Hell, if I want survivability early on, I'd probably want more ranged attackers. You're not in much danger if you kill them before they reach you, and you got 2 NPCs being good enough distractions already.

and your best damage dealers.


Correction. Mages are the best damage dealers. Blow for blow, I'd also take Monk over them.

They have bad move, but you can equip Battle Boots and Move +1 on them and they'll be pretty good.


This movement can be copied by combat untis in general like the Monk. Also, having 6 Move (+1 Battle Boots, +1 from Squire ability) increases survivability as well, since it means you can outrun any melee unit if you're in danger and need to retreat.

They also have robes and their magic isn't bad, so they can make passable backup mages if you need them for some odd reason.


While I would find additional MP silly, I don't actually mind the idea of a Knight having some magic packing, simply because it means he can be a higmove tank who can do some slight AoE damage, being a distraction until the real cannons come in.

Part 4, they get Knightswords to use which is nice.


Their competition is Agrias and Orlandu. That's gonna be a hard argument.

Edited by Grandkitty, 27 June 2011 - 05:40 PM.


#7 Tyrant Sage

Tyrant Sage

    1337 Tyrant

  • Member
  • Gender:Male
  • Favorite Fire Emblem Game:New Mystery of the Emblem

Posted 27 June 2011 - 05:47 PM

Unique classes aren't up already?


I wasn't sure if it was a good idea, but I'll put them up right now.


I have to wonder if our turncounts are similar, cause those levels seem...High.


Well I admit that in later battles, I became less focused on efficiency, most notably during the Gologrand Execution Site and Lionel's Castle gate battles. For earlier, I think only Ramza made it to level 7 and that was only because I ran into an unusually large amount of random battles. Still, the wizard basically did all the work, which is why she ended up so high leveled.

#8 Radiant Dragon

Radiant Dragon

    Back for some mayhem

  • Member
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mountain Time: GMT -7 hours
  • Favorite Fire Emblem Game:Blazing Sword

Posted 27 June 2011 - 06:00 PM

Well, this is sort of a complex thing to think over if you get into it. First off, Chemist contributions early onare quite huge, since one chemist essentially allows your whole team the basic necessities of potions and phoenix downs, so early on they allow you to be perfectly safe. Priests while being inferior to Wizards are still a good choice just to have so it can possibly teach the team Cure so you don't have to even waste money on potions since you just have a team that can network Cure heal. That, and Priest has actual magic as to allow better use of Wizard spells than Chemist, of whom only have guns really late in to retaliate with.

Still, it's a surprisingly close call when you give it thought.


Don't forget about the no-miss healing/revival of Items, although I suppose that White Magic can get pretty high if your team is zodiac compatible. It's tough to judge.

Have you actually ever tried to use a Calculator in efficient play?


I'll admit I haven't played FFT 'efficiently' yet, but I plan to now. Although I do want to know exactly what you were using to determine turncounts. How many turns a specific unit got? However, I still get the feeling that Math Skill can contribute more in the last parts of the game than Bards or Dancers ever will.

Also, as I mentioned in your topic, Sticks are a very good weapon (not that Calculators use them very well with their horrid stats).

EDIT: Is Soldier that low because of it's abilities/stats, or because Cloud joins at level 1?

Edited by Radiant Kitty, 27 June 2011 - 06:03 PM.


#9 Tyrant Sage

Tyrant Sage

    1337 Tyrant

  • Member
  • Gender:Male
  • Favorite Fire Emblem Game:New Mystery of the Emblem

Posted 27 June 2011 - 06:05 PM

Soldiers are low for both of your reasons and because Cloud needs a crappy weapon to use his crappy skills and he has crappy availability. I'm actually considering putting him below Calculators.

#10 Radiant Dragon

Radiant Dragon

    Back for some mayhem

  • Member
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mountain Time: GMT -7 hours
  • Favorite Fire Emblem Game:Blazing Sword

Posted 27 June 2011 - 06:12 PM

Soldiers are low for both of your reasons and because Cloud needs a crappy weapon to use his crappy skills and he has crappy availability. I'm actually considering putting him below Calculators.


I'd say he deserves to be below them. Dragoner too possibly, but that might be because don't recall what Reis can do besides breaths and help Dragons (which isn't useful if we're not recruiting any).

Edited by Radiant Kitty, 27 June 2011 - 06:13 PM.


#11 grandjackal

grandjackal

    u mad breh?

  • Member
  • Gender:Male
  • Favorite Fire Emblem Game:Shadow Dragon

Posted 27 June 2011 - 06:33 PM

I'll admit I haven't played FFT 'efficiently' yet, but I plan to now. Although I do want to know exactly what you were using to determine turncounts. How many turns a specific unit got? However, I still get the feeling that Math Skill can contribute more in the last parts of the game than Bards or Dancers ever will.


Pretty much. I tend to note who moves first so I can just base it off them, because unlike in Shining Force, FFT has a non-random ordering of turns, so that helps immensely. Early on it's really easy to keep track of since Delita and Algus move first almost always.

Also, as I mentioned in your topic, Sticks are a very good weapon (not that Calculators use them very well with their horrid stats).


Problem being that those that use sticks tend to have better things to do. Like be classes that don't suck.

#12 Radiant Dragon

Radiant Dragon

    Back for some mayhem

  • Member
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mountain Time: GMT -7 hours
  • Favorite Fire Emblem Game:Blazing Sword

Posted 27 June 2011 - 06:44 PM

Problem being that those that use sticks tend to have better things to do. Like be classes that don't suck.


Since when did Oracles suck? They're even in High Tier here (although I'll admit it's the equivalent of Upper Mid).

#13 Tyrant Sage

Tyrant Sage

    1337 Tyrant

  • Member
  • Gender:Male
  • Favorite Fire Emblem Game:New Mystery of the Emblem

Posted 27 June 2011 - 06:52 PM

Oracles do have better things to do then use a poor man's version of a spear. It's to cast Petrify, Life Drain, Paralyze, etc.

Edited by Sagekitty, 27 June 2011 - 06:52 PM.


#14 Radiant Dragon

Radiant Dragon

    Back for some mayhem

  • Member
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mountain Time: GMT -7 hours
  • Favorite Fire Emblem Game:Blazing Sword

Posted 27 June 2011 - 07:07 PM

Oracles do have better things to do then use a poor man's version of a spear. It's to cast Petrify, Life Drain, Paralyze, etc.


While I agree with this, attacking does have it's advantages.

#15 Anouleth

Anouleth

    Member

  • Member
  • Gender:Male
  • Favorite Fire Emblem Game:N/A

Posted 27 June 2011 - 07:39 PM

Pretty much. I tend to note who moves first so I can just base it off them, because unlike in Shining Force, FFT has a non-random ordering of turns, so that helps immensely. Early on it's really easy to keep track of since Delita and Algus move first almost always.

I'm not familiar with FFT, but surely linking turncount to the number of turns a player character takes is problematic because their speed will vary? Wouldn't this generate a perverse incentive to try and avoid taking lots of turns in order to keep your "turncount" low (for example, if you had two teams, and one of them was twice as fast but took twice as many turns to beat the chapter, they would be considered much worse).

#16 eclipse

eclipse

    Do I look like I get enough sleep?

  • Section Moderator
  • Gender:Female
  • Favorite Fire Emblem Game:Shadow Dragon

Posted 27 June 2011 - 08:14 PM

I'm not familiar with FFT, but surely linking turncount to the number of turns a player character takes is problematic because their speed will vary? Wouldn't this generate a perverse incentive to try and avoid taking lots of turns in order to keep your "turncount" low (for example, if you had two teams, and one of them was twice as fast but took twice as many turns to beat the chapter, they would be considered much worse).


If that were the case, Haste would suck. Is this based off of your turns, your enemies turns, or at least one round of everyone?

#17 grandjackal

grandjackal

    u mad breh?

  • Member
  • Gender:Male
  • Favorite Fire Emblem Game:Shadow Dragon

Posted 27 June 2011 - 08:45 PM

I'm not familiar with FFT, but surely linking turncount to the number of turns a player character takes is problematic because their speed will vary? Wouldn't this generate a perverse incentive to try and avoid taking lots of turns in order to keep your "turncount" low (for example, if you had two teams, and one of them was twice as fast but took twice as many turns to beat the chapter, they would be considered much worse).


All that says is that the speed stat alone does not win you the game. And no, it wouldn't, because A. No such situation would ever occur, and B. Your team should not be so braindead that this situation just happens anyways.

If that were the case, Haste would suck. Is this based off of your turns, your enemies turns, or at least one round of everyone?


One round for everyone, of course. The way one measures it is that in the example of Delita always going first is that every time Delita has his turn, it's the start of a whole turn. The exception is when he's Hasted, which case it would be every other turn.

#18 Tyrant Sage

Tyrant Sage

    1337 Tyrant

  • Member
  • Gender:Male
  • Favorite Fire Emblem Game:New Mystery of the Emblem

Posted 28 June 2011 - 05:56 AM

Hmmmm....I wonder if I have the Holy Knight too low and the Engineer too high.

Holy Knight does have crap for move and a terrible PA multiplier, but their abilities are pretty sweet and all.

With Engineers, I guess the justificiation is that Aim Arm and Aim Leg combined with guns is smexy, but I'm not sure if it deserves to be in Upper Mid tier.

#19 Anouleth

Anouleth

    Member

  • Member
  • Gender:Male
  • Favorite Fire Emblem Game:N/A

Posted 28 June 2011 - 07:54 AM

All that says is that the speed stat alone does not win you the game.

Actually, the speed stat doesn't do anything. It just lets you take more turns, which doesn't give any advantage relative to this criteria.

And no, it wouldn't, because A. No such situation would ever occur, and B. Your team should not be so braindead that this situation just happens anyways.

That's the point of a hypothetical example. I haven't played this game and I don't know if such a team is possible, but it illustrates how the tier list prioritises other stats at the cost of speed. Even if the hypothetical team could kill every enemy in every chapter before they even got a chance to move, they would be penalised for taking many turns.

One round for everyone, of course. The way one measures it is that in the example of Delita always going first is that every time Delita has his turn, it's the start of a whole turn. The exception is when he's Hasted, which case it would be every other turn.

Well, if Slow exists, you can cast Slow on him and have effectively twice as many turns. Or cast Stop or Sleep, or kill him and have infinite turns (I don't know if there's a game over or whatever if he dies). Certainly, you'd never use Quicken on him, or give him stuff to boost speed.

#20 grandjackal

grandjackal

    u mad breh?

  • Member
  • Gender:Male
  • Favorite Fire Emblem Game:Shadow Dragon

Posted 28 June 2011 - 09:13 AM

Anouleth, I...Think you don't get it. I'm going to tell you how the game IS, so enough with your hypothetical examples.

Every FULL turn, each unit on both sides get a turn. They cannot act more than once through a whole turn unless Hasted or Quickened. If they are, they don't count towards more turns because they're simply acting twice in the same full turn. If one is slowed, it means you only get an action every other full turn.

So if you seriously think I could do something absurd like cast Stop on a single unit and have that be the basis of the claim "Oh hey, I beat this map in ONE TURN! :D", you are clearly insane. Seriously, I would think it would be common sense to think that one unit doesn't actually hold the power of the turncount in his speed stat, nor that he'd be unique in that sense...I'm merely using Delita as a measuring stick in my example.

Edited by Grandkitty, 28 June 2011 - 09:16 AM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users