354 replies to this topic

[Onmi]

I like the supports but to me it doesn't make sense that Roy get's "I'm part dragon" from "she passed peacefully in the night." :/ Maybe I'm missing something but to me it seems like Eliwood should explain that a little more thoroughly to Roy.

He already knows Ninian was a dragon, Eliwood didn't leave that out as a detail when he told him about FE7.

Also thank you shadow, I'll go about amending that right no, as I said, I wasn't happy with that support

@Rapier
Well first of all I'll release the patch with the pairings chosen above, at least at first. Then I may release other patches for the other couples, if only to use the content created for them.

Edited by Onmi, 28 February 2012 - 09:08 PM.

[GodspeedGunblader]

For the sake of completion
Support C

Eliwood: How are you holding up Roy?
Roy: Just fine, though it's sort of weird having you take orders from me
Eliwood: You are the leader of this army, and I, as a soldier, will serve.
Roy: I know but... all of your accomplishments, you slew a dragon! you defeated an evil mad sorcerer, it feels weird giving you orders.

Eliwood:I led a small group of friends, with the sage from an actual legendary sage, and ended the crazed plans of a centuries old sorceror with more than my fair share of allies. I've yet to hold off the largest nation in Elibe weakened from a forced march across Lycia after 3 consecutive battles, with a ragtag group of mercenaries, vagrants and children. You've at least matched my accomplishments so far after your escapades in the Western Isles.
Roy: I...
Eliwood: Take more pride in what you have accomplished, I'm incredibly proud of you.
Roy: Yes Father...

---

Support B

Eliwood: You seem... confused, are you okay Roy?
Roy: It's Lilina, and Guinevere...
Eliwood: Ah, I'll take that as a no.
Roy: This is serious, I have no idea how I should act in this situation.
Eliwood: Well, I'll give you a bit of advice. A long time ago a Lycian lord was stuck in a conflict that could have destroyed the world. But in the back of his mind he was juggling three beautiful women

Roy: So, how did this... Hypothetical lord work out this problem?

Eliwood: Hypothetical? Ha, I'm talking about Hector. He was worried about his brother's health and helping me out back then, and he had women issues. I was too focused on my father's death at the time.

Roy: Grandfather... I wish I could have met him
Eliwood: He was a great man Roy, he would have been proud of what you've accomplished.

Roy: Let us not dwell on death. What of Lord Hector's troubles?

Eliwood: Well, Hector was of course, the worst at hiding his emotional turmoil, and as subtle as a wyvern at handling them. He comes to my tent and starts on the "She-Devils" and how confusing they are.

Roy: Uh... 'She-Devils'

Eliwood: Merlinus had been free with... uninhibitors while listening to Hector's troubles.
Roy: Lord Hector, the Marquess of Ostia and former leader of the Lycian Alliance, was drunk.
Eliwood: Shhhhhh, someone could be mislead into believing that Hector isn't a respectable leader. I owe that man my life.
Roy: Anyway, continue
Eliwood: Well I had been indulging Hector... and the bottle. So I told him "Just go up to her, and tell her" I may not have put it so eloquently though, I was rather drunk.
Roy: So Lord Hector confessed his love?
Eliwood: Oh no, Hector went to the highest point in the camp, and started drunkenly singing a melody of love until he fell over snoring.
Roy: And this worked?
Eliwood: No, a while after he had sobered up and managed to confess good and proper, then he and Lyn/Farina/Florina got together.
Roy: I don't get it, what's the advice?
Eliwood: Don't drink alcohol, the headache is murder. Also, that in reality, the woman you are destined to be with will eventually return to your arms no matter what.
Roy: I'm legally not allowed to drink
Eliwood: When you consider that every next day might be your last, age stops mattering for a lot of things...
Roy: Um... Father... what about how you met mother...

Eliwood:... The past is over. Let us focus the future on while on the battlefield Roy.

*Eliwood leaves*
Roy: Why... why does he look so hurt?


---
A Support (Lyn Mother)


Eliwood:... If this is about before, you might as spend your efforts on the battle at hand

Roy: I'm not just commanding officer, father. I just want to know something about mother.
Eliwood: This is not the pla-
Roy: Why is this so hard to tell me about, I think I have a right to know about who my mother is!

Eliwood:... You're mother was a Sacaen girl, beautiful, graceful, like a harsh gale in battle, everywhere at once. One of my closest friends and confidants during my journey.
Roy: Lyn... My mother was Lyn?

Eliwood: She and I... God it's been over a decade... She really was perfect, like the wind. I mean I was decent fencer, had Hector beat a few times. But Lyn, seeing her move was like watching the sword fly of it's own will. That was when I fell for her really, that final battle...
Roy: So what happened... why don't I remember her... why wasn't she there?
Eliwood: She loved the plains of Sacae, she loved the freedom it gave her... I couldn't though. I could not leave Pherae with my parents gone, with Hector struggling enough to keep the alliance together.
Roy: She just... left us?

Eliwood: She wanted us to go with her, she begged me to leave with her, to raise you on the plains... I said some cruel things as she left. I regret all of them now.
Roy: and me?
Eliwood: You were 2 years old Roy, you seemed lost for a few days, but soon you just forgot. I envied you a little.
Roy: That's... a cruel ending..
Eliwood: Don't you dare say anything bad about her. Lyn just followed her heart like she always did. I just... wasn't a good husband.
Roy: Hey, you don't get to talk like that. You don't get to say that everyone would be proud of me and my accomplishments if you think like that. You raised me, you taught me right from wrong, you were there for me.
Eliwood: ... Thank you.
Roy: Chin up... it wouldn't do well for us to mope around back here while everyone else fights.
Eliwood: Right. Let's go.

---
A Support (Ninian Mother)



Eliwood:... If this is about before, you might as spend your efforts on the battle at hand

Roy: I'm not just your commanding officer, father. I just want to know something about mother.
Eliwood: This is not the pla-
Roy: Why is this so hard to tell me about, I think I have a right to know about who my mother is!
Eliwood:... You're mother was a kind and gentle soul. A dancer... I saved her from the Black Fang out of pure chance and from then on... I couldn't leave her be.
Roy: Ninian. Ninian is my mother.
Eliwood: Yes... Ninian. She was my strength when my mother and father died. She had a look of radiance on her face when you were born. It's just...
Roy: She left you?
Eliwood: No... I killed her.

Roy:...I misheard you just now, again?
Eliwood: No, that's exactly what happened. I killed Ninian.

Roy: Why would you... how?
Eliwood: With love.
Roy: That doesn't make any sense!
Eliwood: At the end of the Black Fang incident, Ninian was dead, killed by my own blade, but then Bramimond appeared. With his power he brought her back to life
Roy: Bramimond... the Crusader?
Eliwood: Oh don't sound so surprised, the Crusaders have a funny way of showing up when you least expect them.
Roy: But then she came back, how did love-

Eliwood: It was a temporary reprieve. Just being in our world was slowly killing her. Even so, she choose to stay with me for as long as she could...
Roy: ...
Eliwood: I'm sorry, it was wrong to keep you in the dark about this. She passed peacefully one night. She just wouldn't wake one morning...
Roy: I'm part dragon...

Eliwood: That changes nothing. You done more to help this world then most men will ever do. More importantly, you are still my son.
Roy: It's good to know finally... Thank you for telling me.

---

Gah I'm not to hot on that support, frankly I don't know what to do with Ninian all around, maybe I could get shadowofchaos to write something up.

I'm a bit of an idiot, but... How do I choose Roy's mother?

[Onmi]

That's what the votes are for

[shadowofchaos]

You COULD code an event to do this... though that would involve multiple character slots for each person... that or some nifty ASM.

[Onmi]

Well because of all the monster slots I probably have the character slots. but it would require a lot of IF routines.

Lets see... At the beginning of the game you have a map for selecting your Roy. Lets see... Since well, Roy is the main one we want, I would set it up with 3 Roys, each one with a mother. And selecting that Roy. Then I would have to set up IF functions (or the equivalent in Event Hacking) Where it looks for the Roy , and then deploys the correct Lilina, Hector, Lyn, Eliwood and Sigune (Since she only supports a specific Eliwood)

The only problem I can see is having to expand the character slots eventually, because I have... Well plans for Roy's first promotion. Jubby knows them, Sholes knows them, and I'll need a few character slots because

Spoiler -

HATE

Still, you put forth a good work around and I'll have to look into it. Not now of course because for some reason my university blocks Serenes Forest (Don't ask it confuses me to) and so I wont be able to discuss it.

Still if you want to discuss this with me, and I'd like to discuss it with you, please contact me on my email. That goes for anyone else with ideas, it's an easy way to reach me as well.

Anyway thanks shadow.

[Jubby]

Use ultrasurf?

[CT075]

I'm curious as to how you're going to carry over all of Roy's promotion gains/stats/etc. with multiple character slots.

Not to mention that you only have two lord slots that can seize. That'd take some interesting ASM.

[shadowofchaos]

I'm curious as to how you're going to carry over all of Roy's promotion gains/stats/etc. with multiple character slots.

Not to mention that you only have two lord slots that can seize. That'd take some interesting ASM.

The work's already there. All he has to do is modify it to use an array.

[CT075]

but he's using FE8...

[shadowofchaos]

but he's using FE8...

Again, the "work" is already there. I'm pretty sure there's an ASM similar to it whenever the seize command is called and checks if you went Eirika or Ephraim route.

Edited by shadowofchaos, 29 February 2012 - 10:48 AM.

[CT075]

Shouldn't be too difficult to modify to use an array, even I could probably do that for FE7

actually if you could give me a fully source i'd be much obliged, rey
EDIT:

Well because of all the monster slots I probably have the character slots. but it would require a lot of IF routines.

Lets see... At the beginning of the game you have a map for selecting your Roy. Lets see... Since well, Roy is the main one we want, I would set it up with 3 Roys, each one with a mother. And selecting that Roy. Then I would have to set up IF functions (or the equivalent in Event Hacking) Where it looks for the Roy , and then deploys the correct Lilina, Hector, Lyn, Eliwood and Sigune (Since she only supports a specific Eliwood)

In prologue:
CharacterEvents:
TalkOneWay(RoyFiora,Player,chooseFiora,etcetc)
...

chooseFiora:
// It'd have to be a permanent ID, but why let that faze you?
ENUT	fioraChosenID
JUMP	end_chap
...

When loading units:

// You'd have to leave Roy out of every unit pool and load him/anyone else separately.
// Alternately, put a "dummy" roy in the "good" slot for cutscenes if you have a prep
// screen, since if it does things the same way as FE7 it should work perfectly fine.

LOU1	Good
IFET	0x0 fioraChosenID
LOU1	fioraRoy
JUMP	rest_of_chapter
ENIF	0x0
// No need for ELSE, if you do it right you don't need one.
IFET	0x1 ninianChosenID
etc.

// And then you need to do something similar for EVERY SINGLE ROY-DEPENDENT UNIT.

// Obviously, this'd take up a large chunk of your 255 condition slots.

For the Sigune event:

Talk_Sigune:
IFET	0x0 fioraChosenID
// JUMP out of here, and the rest of the convo never plays.
JUMP	RecrTalk
ENIF    0x0
TEX1	[...] // Eliwood: No... I can't forgive you (etc)
REMA
ENDA

RecrTalk:
TEX1	[...]
REMA
TurnAlly	Sigune
ENDA

I can't see it being plausible, personally.

Edited by Camtech, 29 February 2012 - 11:03 AM.

[Onmi]

Well it's 3 Roys, 3 Lyns, 3 Eliwoods, 3 Hectors, 3 Lilinas, 2 Sues. And the first 5 (Along side Guinevere) are all able to seize.

Deary me I'll just make 3 individual patches.

RoyFiora: Eliwood/Fiora, Hector/Current Winner, Rebecca/Current Winner, Nino/Current Winner, Rath/Lyn IF Current Winner isn't Hector
RoyNinian: Eliwood/Ninian, Hector/Current Winner, Rebecca/Current Winner, Nino/Current Winner, Rath/Lyn IF Current Winner isn't Hector
RoyLyn: Eliwood/Lyn, Hector/Current Winner, Rebecca/Current Winner, Nino/Current Winner.

Also the sooner I figure out how to stop FE8 from playing those stupid prologue events, I have shit I could do with that chapter... Also it's very awkward starting up the game to test every time and sitting through it.

EDIT: The question on everyones lips is probably "Why so many seizers?" and my only response is "There's enough maps with multiple castles that I felt this was important, not only from a logical point of view (I would throw Hells Gate out to the dogs if Roy had to jump around the map, seizing 7 forts and a castle by himself) but also from a tactical point of view. Take the aforementioned chapter. By bringing all 4 of the other available lords at the time (Hector, Eliwood, Guinevere, Lilina) you can, with creative use of your 3 flyers, and Risk vs Reward scenario, be able to hit 5 forts quickly instead of merely 2.

Now I mention Risk vs Reward because Ballista and staff enemies, and accurately judging whether throwing Thany, Thite and Miledy into that mess away from your army is worthwhile when they could easily be shot and killed. But also because if ANY of those units die, it's a game over. Well except for Hector, for obvious plot reasons... possibly, can you make a unit able to seize while also leaving them open to death? But regardless HG is a hard and dangerous map. FAIR Dangerous of course, no Ambush spawning, no fog of war you can't see through, you have access to a (quite frightening right now) amount of units (23 by my count, will change after testing) there's even an arena so you can easily bring units up to snuff if you need them too.

Going into this one chapter for a bit, because I always like to spurge, it's a good example of story and game-play working cohesively. Storywise the Etrurians made themselves a secure little peninsula/plateau of death for any unit dumb enough to charge them, with Ballista for flying units and sheer cliffs keeping out any sea bound force. A conventional army would never risk it, not without expecting massive loss of life. You are not a regular army, and this is where it merges well with the gameplay. The map looks like there's only one way to win. By doing what the Etrurians want and going slow and steady, letting them build up an army of reinforcements while you weather attack after attack. Except, you should have plenty of tools to utterly frag their established defense line. Warp Staffs, Sleep Staffs, Longbows, the Elemental Bows, Capturing enemy Ballista, Siege Tomes, the knowledge of Rescue/Drop with Canto as a passive for all mounter units after any action, You have pirates (now able to cross cliffs) multiple lords to take multiple forts, depending on how prepared you are, you can smash their defense in a near instant. It doesn't make it EASY mind you, but the big part of the map is that "The Etrurians built a box, think outside the box" in both story and game-play terms.

Everything is fair on the player. 20 Tier 3s with Killer Brave Weapons wont appear and attack on the same turn going "Sup hope you were prepared for THIS asshole!" but you will be warned "I can see Berns Wyvern Riders in the distance, they should be here within 2 minutes/hours/whatever the hell a turns time-frame is" and then 2 turns later having the Wyverns appear at the castle side of the map.

I wont hold your hand, I wont give you a warp staff on the map, I wont tell you to hold onto the Warp staff when you get it. But you will always have options, even if it is "Send my ground units up the corridors and hit them strength on strength."

Because of course some people like feeling like the God of war and slaughtering an entire army despite best laid plans.

Edited by Onmi, 29 February 2012 - 11:37 AM.

[shadowofchaos]

I can't see it being plausible, personally.

I could see making an ASM hack to modify his growth rates would be easier.

[Onmi]

One part of it sure, but them we have to look at the other problem. I.E. the unique content per mother. unless we have something else for the game to check against, maybe a 'Keepsake' item in your inventory that Eliwood can start with depending on a gaiden or a village you visit? like how the original FE6 determined if you would go to Route A or B on the Western Isles? or set it up as a talk topic for Eliwood, depending on who he talks to determines the item he gets.

IF FioraPendant
Then SiguneTalkEvent

But then we have to stop Lilina from accidentally winding up with the same mother. Same with Sue, and we have to consider variable support conversations. Lyn has 3 different sets with Eliwood depending on whether she was married to him, Rath or Hector

EDIT: And I'm out for the day, be back tonight My tonight that is, AUS time, which is likely your early morning, that's if it's your midday now and oh my...

Edited by Onmi, 29 February 2012 - 01:51 PM.

[CT075]

Conditions don't work the way you're thinking they do. GBA games have a very specific set of condition codes, and they're limited to -

If character (for villages)
If character deployed
If Event ID triggered
If character dead

etc., Arch has a more complete list.

Actually I don't even know if FE8 has all of these. To do something like you're proposing requires even more ASM.

[Jubby]

Suppose you trigger a permanent event ID when you get the pendant or whatever?
Edt: Actually this'd be a huge bitch to frame out and use for the whole game, but you could have the player choose the pairings they like at the beginning and then trigger permanent event IDs based on that. Then whenever the topic of a mother comes up, check for the event ID and use the appropriate text slots or whatever. If you're not opposed to having 3 of each of those pairing-related characters, just load the correct one based on the ID, etc. <- that'd differentiate supports and such too

Edited by Jubby, 29 February 2012 - 02:49 PM.

[Onmi]

Conditions don't work the way you're thinking they do. GBA games have a very specific set of condition codes, and they're limited to -

If character (for villages)
If character deployed
If Event ID triggered
If character dead

etc., Arch has a more complete list.

Actually I don't even know if FE8 has all of these. To do something like you're proposing requires even more ASM.

You're right. That's why I think it's simpler to just stick to 3 patches. Stll, Just because it's not worthwhile for me to figure out a good system for this (after all I just have too many conditionals) it doesn't mean someone on the small scale wont have use for it. So I think it's worth exploring

Also apparently the block is only for hardlines? I don't know.

Also I've been thinking about what caused FEditor to ruin the first hack, from my experience with map-hacking with FE8 I have a theory I'm going to try testing. My theory is that FEditor is for one reason or another, not writing it free space and thus damaging the Storage System/Fa animation. Of course the problem with this is that you can still view Fa's animation in FEditor even if it's broken in game, so it's possible it just breaks whatever handles Fa's transformation? I don't know, if it hasn't become abundantly clear I have next to 0 understanding of the ASM programming language.

Detour over. Since I don't have my tools with me and I have 3 hours till class, I'll probably get some writing done.

@Jubby Again I'm going on my next to zero knowledge here, but would that work? I don't think it would outside of dialogue.

[Dr.Sholes]

The only problem I can see is having to expand the character slots eventually, because I have... Well plans for Roy's first promotion. Jubby knows them, Sholes knows them, and I'll need a few character slots because

Spoiler -

HATE

Win...

[CT075]

You're right. That's why I think it's simpler to just stick to 3 patches. Stll, Just because it's not worthwhile for me to figure out a good system for this (after all I just have too many conditionals) it doesn't mean someone on the small scale wont have use for it. So I think it's worth exploring

Also apparently the block is only for hardlines? I don't know.

You're misunderstanding me again. It's perfectly doable and actually fairly simple. I could probably write a preprocessor that sets up/changes codes for it in like fifteen minutes (note: chances are i will not for this specific instance unless you're willing to pursue this).

Although again it'd be much much simpler to do it in ASM.

Also I've been thinking about what caused FEditor to ruin the first hack, from my experience with map-hacking with FE8 I have a theory I'm going to try testing. My theory is that FEditor is for one reason or another, not writing it free space and thus damaging the Storage System/Fa animation. Of course the problem with this is that you can still view Fa's animation in FEditor even if it's broken in game, so it's possible it just breaks whatever handles Fa's transformation? I don't know, if it hasn't become abundantly clear I have next to 0 understanding of the ASM programming language.

Detour over. Since I don't have my tools with me and I have 3 hours till class, I'll probably get some writing done.

FEditor does weird things with FE6 due to the fact that it requires the english patch. FE7/8 are almost 100% bug-free, and most of the big ones can be pre-emptively killed by saving before doing your editing (FEditor -> load ROM -> save before doing actions -> go about your business), since that re-updates the metadata (and therefore, the free space).

not to mention FEditor in and of itself uses almost zero ASM

[Onmi]

I'm willing to pursue it, I thought it would be hard to do because, again, I'm an idiot who doesn't understand. If it can be done, and it means that players DON'T have to download 3 patches simply to get all the content, then yeah I'll see this through to the end.