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#21 Silvercrow

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 06:01 PM

The main problem with flash is that it's too much of a get out of jail free card. Also, I'm assuming that the speed increase will essentially make the holder as comparitively fast to enemy champions as before, just that they can get to tower more quickly.

It is, but that does the opposite of encourage passive play which is one of the so-called "arguments" against flash. Disliking get out of jail free mechanics is one thing, but frankly many champs already have this (cue eternal crying about Vlad pool), and without it people will just tower hug forever like they did when Eve could stun for fear of a Nunu or Fiddlesticks popping out of the jungle. The only way flash can be removed without incentivizing passive play is basically disallowing anyone with any CC at all from jungling. And everyone will just run ghost.

Flash at least succeeds in creating interesting plays with its offensive uses as well. Annie, Fiddlesticks, Urgot, Amumu etc can all do really awesome things with flash that aren't just escaping.


#22 Soren37

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 06:50 PM

So a Patch Preview popped up a couple of days ago. Apart from Kayle's rework, Trynd's getting a Rage Bar, TF and Panth lose their global ults, and Galio's getting more tanky.

Kayle-never played as her, but I heard that she was way too item dependent to play. Where most champions rely on skills (AD carries sometimes excluded), she needed her items to be good. I'm glad they did the rework.

Trynd-Um...not sure how this will play out. It makes sense story-wise, but necessary/game-changing? I don't know.

TF/Panth-Glad and upset. Nothing frightened you more than that glowing orange dot above your head that meant "GTFO OF HERE AND GET TO THE TOWER!", and if you were out of position, you were doomed. Panth's was too long of a charge up. You could run out of there well before he landed, but this does make the champions easier to counter. Seeing an orange dot above your head when you definitively know that TF's in bot and you're top, you don't even care then.

Galio-he wasn't tanky enough?

#23 Piemanmj

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 12:55 AM

Soren, pretty much all champs save support need items to be good. Kayle was a pretty mean solo lane, one hit 6, she was ungankable and unkillable due to self sustain from her heal, and her ultimate nullifying any attempted ganks.

Galio wasn't tanky enough and hasn't been tanky enough since the major nerfs he recieved on Idol of Durand. People basically only picked him for his ultimate, and when they nerfed that, he wasn't tanky enough, and didn't provide enough utility for his team. So recently more people have been playing him as offtank caster, but that hasn't been nearly as good as pre-nerf tank Galio. He hasn't been chosen competitively in a very, very, very, long time. Amumu has more damage, (as of now) a better ult, and is inherently more tanky. Not to mention he can jungle. What's the point of picking Galio when Amumu outclasses him in every way? This is a step in the right direction.

About TF, if you're out of position, and you're against a TF, you get punished. That's it. The real reason why Riot nerfed TF's and Pantheon's ultimates is so that late game, when the enemy team is pushing up your lanes, TF or Pantheon would too easily punish the other team and easily take some of their towers. Nothing was more stupid than pushing as a team and having an Enemy TF take all your inhibitors.

Yes, I am bored.

Edited by Piemanmj, 26 July 2011 - 12:56 AM.


#24 BK-201

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 02:41 PM

It is, but that does the opposite of encourage passive play which is one of the so-called "arguments" against flash. Disliking get out of jail free mechanics is one thing, but frankly many champs already have this (cue eternal crying about Vlad pool), and without it people will just tower hug forever like they did when Eve could stun for fear of a Nunu or Fiddlesticks popping out of the jungle. The only way flash can be removed without incentivizing passive play is basically disallowing anyone with any CC at all from jungling. And everyone will just run ghost.

Flash at least succeeds in creating interesting plays with its offensive uses as well. Annie, Fiddlesticks, Urgot, Amumu etc can all do really awesome things with flash that aren't just escaping.

Harassment is pretty pointless with flash. Also, in every major tournament 10 flashes every time. Also, Vlad's pool isn't really free and doesn't give him additional mobility. Really it comes down to would you have taken 20% of your current health in harassment if you hadn't pooled. Yes, alot of stuff would have to be changed if flash was removed, that has been established. Ghost isn't as drastic as it isn't a blink and is still vulnerable while ghosting as opposed to flash.

So a Patch Preview popped up a couple of days ago. Apart from Kayle's rework, Trynd's getting a Rage Bar, TF and Panth lose their global ults, and Galio's getting more tanky.

Kayle-never played as her, but I heard that she was way too item dependent to play. Where most champions rely on skills (AD carries sometimes excluded), she needed her items to be good. I'm glad they did the rework.

Trynd-Um...not sure how this will play out. It makes sense story-wise, but necessary/game-changing? I don't know.

TF/Panth-Glad and upset. Nothing frightened you more than that glowing orange dot above your head that meant "GTFO OF HERE AND GET TO THE TOWER!", and if you were out of position, you were doomed. Panth's was too long of a charge up. You could run out of there well before he landed, but this does make the champions easier to counter. Seeing an orange dot above your head when you definitively know that TF's in bot and you're top, you don't even care then.

Galio-he wasn't tanky enough?


Kayle's rework was a nerf. Any champion going into late game build is going to destroy and carries are fairly item dependent. The new passive was one already known to be buggy due to how it works. Armor/MR reduction % outside of Void Staff and LW are known to be buggy as the shred is limited to base armor/MR which is fairly pathetic.

Alot of the high up Trynd players are complaining but the changes need to be tested before making a judgment call.

TF and Panth's Ult problem was not the ability to catch people out of position. Rather TF with half decent map awareness ports and BDs. His ability to take down towers and waves unopposed is incredibly high. Panth was weak so his ability to leap was hardly impressive.

Galio was (and still might be) considered very subpar compared to other champions as his tanking is completely relient on a combo of flash + Ult. Other than that he has no real way of getting people off his team as opposed to Alistar and Amumu.

#25 Char

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 10:00 PM

Is this game better than Heroes of Newerth?

#26 BK-201

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 12:04 AM

Is this game better than Heroes of Newerth?

Never played HoN, but heard the community sucks.

#27 Soren37

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 02:56 PM

My one friend played HoN, and said that the levelling makes no sense, he can't figure out how to buy items, and was generally confused the whole time. He also said that the matchmaking system could put you up against the best players in the game when you're just starting.

I've never played HoN, so I am biased towards LoL. Also, HoN, form what I heard, is a lot harder than LoL. Not sure if HoN has patch updates and character changes that make no sense (RIP Evelynn).

#28 Piemanmj

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 05:17 PM

Well, of course stuff is confusing if you don't know what it is.. MOBAs have high learning curves...

It depends on your tastes, really. If you're looking for something with more features and more polished, I'd say HoN, LoL has a larger competitive community afaik.

The play styles are a bit different too, it's up to each person, really.

#29 BK-201

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 03:43 PM

Evelyn's nerf was to postpone for rework, as according to Riot, her toolkit was against her design philosophy.

Anyway, as HoN became F2P I might try it and give you my thoughts after a sufficient amount of time. Your friend probably just started and should read up before passing judgment so quickly. Learning curves and all.

#30 EVE MID OR AFK

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 08:55 PM

HoN and LoL are both fine games although HoN is a little iffy now in the sense that you can pay to play new heroes before they become "officially" released to the public.

#31 Soren37

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 01:57 PM

So, Nunu's become my favourite champion right now, but I was curious, are his lane match-ups dependent on his partner? If he lanes with an AD Carry, he provides a massive slow and a buff that can be used to get off those last few attacks as well as close the gap. If he's with an AP Carry though, it becomes very hard for him to be of use besides a slow stopping them from escaping.

In other words, should I lane with an AD Carry as much as possible?

#32 BK-201

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 05:09 PM

So, Nunu's become my favourite champion right now, but I was curious, are his lane match-ups dependent on his partner? If he lanes with an AD Carry, he provides a massive slow and a buff that can be used to get off those last few attacks as well as close the gap. If he's with an AP Carry though, it becomes very hard for him to be of use besides a slow stopping them from escaping.

In other words, should I lane with an AD Carry as much as possible?

Nunu should go in jungle. Traditional supports are much better with AD carries given that AS is only useful for sustained damage, which isn't happening in lane. Nunu is also a really invasive jungler due to consume so laning also gives that up. Him in jungling will give all the positives of lane Nunu and more as his buff isn't really useful in lane outside of MS, which is less useful than a traditional support's toolkit, and his ganks give that slow to knock down enemies.

#33 Piemanmj

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 05:20 PM

^^^ to the 10th power

nunu in es lane not #1, jangle, yes.

#34 Soren37

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 07:40 PM

Considering I'm only level 6/7 or so, jungle isn't a really viable option right now.

#35 Soren37

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 07:40 PM

Considering I'm only level 6/7 or so, jungle isn't a really viable option right now.

#36 BK-201

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 04:51 PM

Play a different character then. Laning really gives up what's good about Nunu. Plus, if you're playing him as support Q is going to be stealing CS.

#37 Soren37

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 07:08 PM

Fair enough. Let's see who's free...Taric would probably be a fun choice, seeing as I like playing support characters, for some reason.

#38 Soren37

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 07:08 PM

Fair enough. Let's see who's free...Taric would probably be a fun choice, seeing as I like playing support characters, for some reason.

EDIT: Dear internet, stop screwing up and double-posting.

Edited by Soren37, 03 August 2011 - 07:09 PM.


#39 Piemanmj

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 09:22 PM

anivia #1 support, always wall to keep team safe, team never die, always win



#40 Pride

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 12:07 PM

So what do you dudes think of this dominion business?

For those who haven't heard.




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