SF Mafia Info Dump & Resources

[j00]

I agree with Prims on the inactivity being a problem, a playerslot is really hard to read if they're never present and the rest of the players have to waste time never getting a read off them. A mixture of players that say a lot and those who give good posts when they get back works fine, the problem are the ones who occasionally posts one-liners and disappear or then get subbed out, as they're just a hindrance and easily seem scummy because they're not contributing, giving reads or explaining their votes. I'd rather people sub out if they don't have time than keep saying "I'll say more when I get back", but if the sub is just as inactive, no one will get a good read of the slot ever.

[Helios]

The problem with the stagnation problem is that you can't just blame one or two people for it; it's EVERYONE'S problem. But the problem is, you by yourself can only do so much. That's probably why this is such a problem -- people will start to become more active but then they see they can only do so much by themselves they lose motivation. If everyone plays their part then discussion will stay alive!

[eclipse]

re: eclipse: i think the main problem is that there are a lot of people who just plain don't bother to go the extra step and try to make themselves heard. the reason discussion tends to be dominated by noisy players like me, levity, bbm, helios, etc is that a lot of the time other people will just post a few reads then disappear until they're about to get prodded (or after the fact). there are some people like kay and obviam who are good at the whole "disappear for 24 hours then write a comprehensive wall of text and repeat" playstyle, but they're in the minority.

noisy townies can ask the less active players questions, but they can't do much more to boost activity across the board other than that. the drop in the activity following their inevitable deaths isn't their fault; it's the fault of the inactive players for relying on those active townies to keep the game alive. the inactive players need to actually have a desire to take part in the game to decrease stagnation, which is why not all of the playerbase contributes to the problem equally. generally the louder people tend to become less potent when everybody is taking part in the game, too, because there's no need to compensate for everybody else being a lazy fuck

You can't control the quiet people short of making it a rule to lynch inactives first/someone implements a blacklist modkill if someone is inactive. You can, however, control yourself and your part of the flow of the game. Lynch the lazy fucks early, for one. Or make it so that you're not responding to every single little thing every time it pops up - waiting a couple of hours for more responses isn't a bad thing during the early part of the day. Keep several lynch suspects in mind (and make this known throughout the phase), and drop the early tunneling. Those sorts of things.

This discussion has given me a hilarious idea for Shipping Mafia. Thanks~!

[j00]

But lynching inactives wastes time and phases :(

[Paperblade]

But lynching inactives wastes time and phases :(

[Grace]

needs more policy vig

[Paperblade]

I try

[eclipse]

But lynching inactives wastes time and phases :(

That's the downside of it. On the upside, they can't waste time/phases later.

[Aleph]

"disappear for 24 hours then write a comprehensive wall of text and repeat" playstyle, but they're in the minority.

The style has pros and cons. On the one hand soaking in all that information at once lets you draw connections you would normally miss and have to dig out of a thread reread. It also lets you...you know, actually go do stuff instead of care about a silly forum game all day. That said, if you handle posts as they come and put more time into them individually you can notice things you won't notice from the big picture, just as with the other way around. It may have been good that we were playing differently because the styles do complement each other.

Prims is still gay though either way.

That's the downside of it. On the upside, they can't waste time/phases later.

Good for picking off mafia coasters, bad for avoiding easy mislynches. I like a balanced amount of idlers and real players in my games so I can use them as I please

Edited January 9, 2013 by Aleph

[Prims]

kaoz wanted me to write up a directory of roles commonly used on sf so i did that

i am probably missing some more obscure stuff but yeah

Investigative

-Cop (Active)

Targets a player, learns their alignment. In bastard games, may be insane (receives reverse results), paranoid (only receives mafia results) or naive (only receives town results). Typically called "fullcop" if it learns role as well as alignment.

-Tracker (Active)

Targets a player, learns who that player targeted.

-Watcher (Active)

Targets a player, learns who targeted that player. If the mod is a Bad Person then this may be invisible to other watchers/trackers without the mod actually mentioning that in the role PM.

-Follower (Active)

Targets a player, learns what actions that player used.

-Voyeur (Active)

Targets a player, learns what actions targeted that player.

-Journalist (Active), aka "Informant"

Targets a player, learns that player's night results.

-Rolecop (Active), aka "Stalker"

Targets a player, learns their role (but not alignment).

-Oracle (Active)

Targets a player each night, publicly reveals the most recently targeted player's role and alignment on death.

-Friendly Neighbor (Active)

Target learns that the targeter is town-aligned.

-Innocent Child (Passive)

Is confirmed town through the mod at the start of the game. May alternately start hidden and be confirmed town through an active ability.

-Question Asker (Active)

Asks a mod a question at night, gets an honest answer. Typically has limitations.

-Census Taker (Passive), aka "Numbers"

Knows information about the town:scum:ITP ratio at the start of the game.

-Eagle Eye (Passive)

Learns of any targeters and what actions they used.

Protective

-Doctor (Active)

Protects the target from killing actions.

-Jailkeeper (Active)

Simultaneously roleblocks and protects target. Some variants (typically when used at day) may also neighborize the target in accordance with epicmafia mechanics.

-Bodyguard (Active)

If the target is set to die on the night of use, the Bodyguard dies instead. Generally not considered a redirect, but up to mod discretion.

-Bulletproof (Passive)

May not be nightkilled. Typically X-shot and may only survive a certain number of kills.

-Deathproof (Passive)

May not be nightkilled or lynched. Typically X-shot and may only survive a certain number of kills.

-Blacksmith (Active)

Gives target a 1-shot bulletproof.

-Commuter (Active)

May commute to make self untargetable that night.

Blocking

-Roleblocker (Active), aka "Hooker"

Target's active abilities fail that night. May also affect passive abilities depending on mod.

-Disabler (Active)

Target's abilities are nullified for the following day/night.

-Safeguard (Active)

Roleblocks any non-killing active abilities used on its target.

-Omniguard (Active)

Roleblocks any active abilities used on its target.

-Ascetic (Passive), aka "Untargetable"

May not be targeted by actions (sometimes killing actions are still valid).

Redirecting

-Redirector (Active)

All actions on the target are redirected to a player of the user's choice.

-Bus Driver (Active), or just "Driver"

Picks two targets, any player who targets one will target the other, and vise versa.

-Martyr (Active)

All actions on the target are redirected to the user.

-Sidekick (Active)

Non-killing actions on the target are redirected to the user.

-Hijacker (Active)

Target's action is redirected to a player of the user's choice.

-Decoy (Active), aka "Reverse Martyr"

Target's actions are redirected to the user.

-Nexus (Passive)

Targeting actions are redirected toward a random other player on the playerlist.

Communication

-Announcer (Active)

Gives the mod a message which is then quoted in-thread anonymously for all to see.

-Courier (Active)

Sends the target an anonymous message through the mod. Provided the game isn't bastard, it should be made clear the message is a message from another player.

-Mason (Active)

May talk to a player outside the game thread and knows that player is town.

-Neighbor (Active)

May talk to a player outside the game thread, but does not know that player's alignment.

-Mason Recruiter (Active)

Picks a target and gives them access to the mason quicktopic if they are town (or alternately, if they scan town). Typically dies upon targeting somebody unrecruitable.

-Neighborizer (Active)

Picks a target and gives them access to the neighbor quicktopic. Alternately just gains a quicktopic with the target for a period of time.

-Silencer (Active)

Target may not talk beyond voting during the following day.

-Kidnapper (Active)

Target is removed from the game completely for the following day. This is usually stated by the mod.

-Insomniac (Passive), aka "Best Role ;_;"

May talk during the night phase.

Lynch

-Mayor (Passive), aka "Doublevoter", "Judge", "Paperblade"

Vote counts for 2 instead of 1. May have to trigger this using a day ability. May or may not show up on votecounts.

-Persuader (Active)

Targets a player and sticks their vote to a player of the user's choosing.

-Governor (Active)

May save a player from being lynched, typically forcing a no lynch in the process.

-Voteblocker (Active)

Targeted player may not vote the following day.

-Lynchproof (Passive)

May not be lynched. Typically X-shot and may only survive a certain number of kills.

-Loved (Passive)

Takes an extra vote to be hammered.

-Hated (Passive)

Takes one less vote to be hammered.

Killing

-Vigilante (Active) aka "Dayvig" for day variants

Has an action that kills another player.

-Bomb (Passive)

Kills the player that kills or hammers it.

-Strongman (Active) aka "Hitman"

Kills (typically scum's factional kill) will bypass protection.

-Janitor (Active)

Kills (typically scum's factional kill) will hide the target's role and alignment, sometimes except from the user.

-Interceptor (Active)

Targets a player, and if another role targets that player, that role dies. May only be able to rack up one kill per night or reveal itself to anybody who targeted its target but survives à la epicmafia.

-Witch (Active)

Targets a player, and if another role targets that player, that player dies. If Mafia, actions from the same alignment will not result in a kill.

-Poisoner (Active)

Targets a player and poisons them, killing them at the end of the following night if they are not cured.

-Vengeful (Passive)

May kill another player when lynched.

-Paranoid Gun Owner (Passive), aka "Granny"

Reflexively kills any players who target it, typically only at night.

Deceiving

-Miller (Passive)

Returns as Mafia to cops.

-Godfather (Passive)

Returns as Town to cops. May also be bulletproof.

-Ninja (Passive)

Actions may not be seen by trackers/watchers/followers/voyeurs/etc.

-Framer (Active)

Makes the target return Mafia to cops that night.

-Lawyer (Active)

Makes the target return Town to cops that night.

-Tailor (Active)

Makes the target return opposite results to cops that night. Alternately, picks a different role and alignment for the target to return as to cops and rolecops that night.

Backup

Generally, non-specific backup roles become a power role once that power role dies. If it works for any power role it's typically called Universal Backup or just Backup, but a backup Cop is known as a Deputy and a backup Doc is known as a Nurse.

-Amnesiac (Active)

Picks a player and permanently becomes their role. Sometimes a third party that also copies win conditions.

-Gravedigger (Active)

May use the roles of dead players at night, typically only once per player.

Misc.

-Jack of All Trades (Active)

Has multiple active abilities, typically 1-shot.

-Inventor (Active)

Has multiple items or 1-shot abilities that may be given out to other players.

-Motivator (Active)

Target may use active abilities twice the following night.

-Macho (Modifier)

Kills will succeed on a macho role even if they are protected.

-X-Shot (Modifier)

Role may only be used X number of times.

-Compulsive (Modifier)

Role must be used whenever possible.

-Non-Consecutive (Modifier)

May not be used two nights in a row. May alternately be odd-night or even-night and specify what number of night the role may be used on.

-Activist (Modifier)

Role has a shot modifier, but recharges a shot every time a phase passes by with no kills (sometimes only if it's a day phase).

-Weak (Modifier)

Dies upon targeting a mafia-aligned player (or a player that is non-town, or a player that scans non-town, etc. May vary)

-Reflexive (Modifier)

Instead of targeting other players at night, target passively uses role on anybody targeting it.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Prims

[eclipse]

Modifications:

Silencer - I've seen plenty of silencers that don't allow voting.

Persuader - Sometimes, that person is told to vote X way during the day on pain of modkill. Othertimes, their vote is changed in the votals only. SF tends to stick to the former.

[Prims]

SFplayerbase.xls has been updated.

[Shinori]

I like statistics.

Edited March 31, 2013 by Shinori

[Elieson]

Protip Post:

When building ISO's, check this link out. This link has the proper Hex coding for symbols such as (apostrophe), (space) and more. When building ISOs, one may have trouble properly setting up a URL for certain users. (such as Cap'n Flint, and Xin'dy, or mafia sucks). This link will tell you the proper code for each symbol, in setting up ISO links with 0 trouble.

http://www.obkb.com/dcljr/charstxt.html

I.E.

building an ISO for Cap'n Flint would look like "cap%27n%20flint".

Edited July 24, 2013 by Elieson

[eclipse]

NOTE 2: Use Firefox. Opera will inevitably screw up hex codes (yes, I've tried).

[Grace]

so, as per hq, i have a thing to post

[spoiler=tips for making a good setup]1) Probably the most important tip: Make sure an early massclaim does not break the game. This isn't as much of a problem in closed setups, provided scum get decent fakeclaims. However, in open setups, this is a huge problem if the setup is poorly designed. For example,

2 Vanilla Town, 1 Town Watcher, 1 Town Doctor, 1 Town Cop, 1 Mafia Janitor, 1 Mafia Rolecop is an open setup. Partial massclaim D1 breaks the setup, as if mafia do not cc watcher D1, then doc outs for watcher to be on, and if mafia cc doc there, cop claims for watcher protection. As long as town doesn't lynch a doc cc, town is much more likely to win. If mafia is lynched in the vanilla towns D1 with a mafia cc'ing a town PR, mafia will lose.

Massclaim doesn't have to be "town autowins" but if massclaim gives town a very high chance of winning, then it's probably wise to revise the setup. The converse does not hold true though; if a massclaim makes a greater chance of a mafia win, then town is penalized for trying to break the setup, which is what should be expected in setup creation.

The above setup can probably be rebalanced by removing one of the town PR's. Doc and watcher probably should not exist simultaneously, as doc/watcher is a powerful combo if uncc'ed. By removing one, massclaim no longer is as useful, as not having two protective/soft-protective roles makes it less palatable for a massclaim.

Not sure if that quite gets across the point but it should be a good representation of how massclaim can break setups. Closed setups don't have this problem as much, provided mafia have decent fakeclaims (more later).

1a) If you're not sure about your setup balance, run RNG tests on it. Take a sample size of results to determine setup balance. Does scum reach parity too quickly? Does town fall apart when a certain PR is killed? How much does the setup swing (the more a setup swings, the more likely people will be dissatisfied with it)? By figuring out problems such as that, you can tweak the setup until it balances better. Open setups can be brute-forced through probability charts if you can make simple assumptions about lines of play.

2) Next, you need to consider town strength against mafia strength (+third parties). If a setup is balancing too far towards one faction being stronger than the other, things you need to consider are:

i) Removing excess town/mafia power: whether that be through replacing PR's with vanilla towns/mafias, or just reducing the PR's power through a modifier.

ii) Town numbers: If town has a large safety net numbers wise, that itself can be a bigger factor than having strong PR's. See what happens if you remove a town player from the setup, balance wise. Conversely, if mafia seem too strong, consider adding another town or two and see what happens, as extra mislynches give town a greater chance of winning.

3) Make sure the mafia have good fakeclaims, or the capacity for them. I know it's tempting in flavor games to put in all the main characters and such as town roles, but that relegates mafia to get the more obscure characters and roles and that is potentially a breaking strategy (see massclaim). It's worth giving mafia at least one character fake which is more well known, so people can't game the system.

In addition; if you choose to give mafia a set of safe roleclaims, make sure they are also solid (where they can stand up to people trying to game the system with massclaim). This is particularly relevant in role madness games (everyone has a power, ie no vanillas).

3a) In role-heavy games, scum should be given at least some safe roleclaims. Whether they are given as information or inbuilt into the role, it matters not.

4) Avoid giving hints in flavor. This is more related around actual hosting, in regard to flavor updates, however Role PM flavor should still be worded in ways to avoid giving hints away (unless it's intentional, but that in itself is a jerk design move). Getting this done will potentially reduce flavorspec, which will make people have to scumhunt better, which will improve the level of play.

5) Be especially careful around including roles that depend on other roles in the game. Now, obviously some mafia roles depend on having a certain town role in the game (unless you're going for red herrings), like godfather/framer means there's a cop, ninja means there's a tracker/watcher, and so forth, however the main problem is including a role that can basically clear its own existence based on a mafia flip and from another roleclaim, which logically progresses to clear the second role as well.

6) Avoid adding bastard elements to the game, unless the game is explicitly advertised as such. Bastard elements can be generalized as:

a) Hidden role abilities, active or passive, which the player is never made aware of (cop sanities besides sane are a good example);

b) Roles that lie about role flips (death miller/death godfather) in closed setups;

c) Roles that lie about investigation results where it is explicitly stated that investigation results are accurate;

d) Roles that lie about a player's alignment.

e) Roles that have a counterintuitive wincon, eg Fool/Jester, in closed setups;

f) Open setups where the advertised setup is false in any way, shape, or form;

g) Closed setups where there are moles/mason infiltrators and the like; announced it's not so bad but unannounced is straight up cruel.

7) Don't always use the overused roles for specific alignments, which generalize into cop/doc/tracker/watcher/miller/maybe vigil for town, and roleblocker/godfather/rolecop for the mafia. People will get cluey and will probably disengage if the setup has a lot of clichéd elements in it, so add some variety.

7a) The obvious implication of the above; be creative with what roles are used as a part of each alignment. Examples include driver/redirector/interceptor for town roles, and tracker/watcher/dayvig for scum. The basic gist is to use roles that are more expected to be present on the opposite alignment, however, don't overuse this rule either, as that may also make people aware of the system.

7b) Don't shift an overload of power into one role. It might be tempting to make one scum stupidly overpowered, but if you try and balance around that, you'll find that if the role stays around too long it will probably swing the setup into the mafia's favor, but the converse is also true, if the role leaves early, the setup will swing away from the mafia.

8) When creating a setup, you need to have a purpose in mind. Is there a specific mechanic that you want to apply? A certain role that you just really wanna use? You can't just throw together some roles, add some flavor (optional), and run a game. It's not exciting for the players, and arguably not fulfilling for a host.

For example, when I made EO Mafia, I based it around everything being limited use, and each role having at least two abilities (bar slight exceptions). Mystery Mafia I based around the Inquisitor.

9) Sometimes the best thing to keep in mind is simplicity. Making a setup that has lots of little, specific interactions, and/or a requirement to game the established system in order to get ahead, sometimes does not make for a fun game to play. You should also remember that not everyone is going to play the setup the way you intended it. Making specific interactions between roles may be completely overlooked by the players, and you shouldn't design a game to balance around people figuring them out. If you include it as a bonus for the observant, that's fine.

You also need to try and consider every possibility that could arise when the game gets played. Simpler games can avoid situations that weren't expected, which is always a bonus.

10) Remember that other people are going to play your setup, and you should be putting their enjoyment as part of your priorities, as well as your own.

Anyone who remembers the initial Mystery 2 setup that I posted way back, would remember how unbalanced it was. The people who rolled town were unlikely to have much fun, when their chances of winning were low. When I made the setup, I had a good laugh and a lot of fun making it, but it wouldn't have been a successful, memorable game had I gone through with it.

edit: slight addition to point 6

Edited June 10, 2014 by Curly Brace

[Prims]

[spoiler=tips for making a good setup]1) Always include Insomniac

[BBM]

Mystery Mafia I based around the Inquisitor.

Edited August 15, 2013 by BigBadMarshmallow

[Kaoz]

5 Guidelines to Having a Good Post Structure

Let's talk about post structure for a minute and go over some points you should keep in mind when making a post.

1. Be concise

Remember those classes in school where someone made a presentation and it just dragged on and on and on? I'm going to guess that most of you didn't really want to sit through those (or if you did, only because it meant you wouldn't have to sit through the regular class). In that sense, wouldn't you have been much happier if the presentation was short and to the point? The same thing goes for posts - in order for your post to be meaningful, people have to want to read it, so be short and to the point.

2. Focus

Many, many years ago, Steve Jobs said "Focus is about saying no." And I think this applies to us too. When you make a post, ask yourself "Do I really need this part to make the point I want to make?" If something is not necessary, just leave it out. Also, unless you directly compare two cases, consider making separate posts for each of them. If you want to explain a case, but also defend yourself against accusations, if the two aren't directly related put them into separate posts. Of course if you're just responding with one line each, keeping them all in one place is preferable.

3. Quotes

Quotes are a tricky thing in that they can of course be important, but also take up a lot of space. So when you quote someone, cut out all the parts you're not responding to. If you want to respond to multiple parts of the same post, cut the quote into multiple parts. And if you want to respond to a post as a whole, either link the post or just say which post number in the thread you're responding to, it'll be easy for everyone else to find.

4. Formatting

In a way all of this is formatting of course, but here I'm specifically referring to bold, italics and underline tags, as well as bigger fonts and colours. Don't use them. You should bold your votes of course, and in a quote you might want to bold a specific word or short phrase, but other than that, don't do it.

5. Votes

Always, and I mean always, set your votes (and unvotes) apart from the rest of your post. This doesn't mean it needs to be in bright colours and size 7 font, but bold it, put it into a new line and aligned to the left. Also keep them at the very beginning or very end of your posts and don't put them somewhere in the middle where they can be easily missed.

Keep in mind that I don't want to tell you with this what you should and shouldn't say, just how to present it.

I can understand if you feel like all of this is more effort than it's worth, and if you're already spending a lot of your limited time on games, it might not seem very appealing. But it's really just a matter of getting used to, and you will find that if everyone does it, you'll have an easier time both grasping their arguments and rereading their posts later on. So eventually it will actually save time.

[Kaoz]

Gathering Information in OC Games

In recent times, when thinking about OC, I've been thinking of it as supply and demand in a way. That is, imagine yourself as a type of business entity with the following resources:

1. Information

2. Vote

These are the two resources you start out with, over the course of the game you try to aquire more information and by doing so you attempt to strengthen your team's position and advance closer to your win condition. At the same you will want to protect the information you already possess (or at least most of it). Ideally everyone else would give you all the information they have and vote the way you want, without you having to give them anything in return.

However, since that's the best case scenario for everybody else as well, in the end you will have to compromise, you will have to "purchase" votes and information with your own resources.

In the end this boils down to trading, both you and the player you're trying to trade with have to feel like the deal is at least acceptable to them, that is the information each of you stands to gain must stand in relation to what each of you gives away. Generally the quality of information can range from very low (e.g. "X talked to Y") to very high (e.g. role information), but be aware that the value also changes depending on the situation and parties involved in the trade.

For instance, your role will have a very high value at the very beginning of the game when nobody but you has any idea what it is - however, once information of your role is available through other parties, its value decreases, after all your trade partner could gain that information from other sources for a lower price. The second factor when considering quality is your status, that is are you townie or scummy, or in other words, how trustworthy are you. The better your status, the less information you have to offer in a trade (and for confirmed players or town leaders, the information they have to give up is close to zero).

To summarize, when gathering information in OC, it usually boils down to some sort of trade or purchase in which the involved parties have to agree that the value of the information they offer is about the same as what they receive, considering quality, quantity and source of the information.

Be aware though that the above only applies in a neutral conversation. A player might give up information for free, either by accident or because the pressure on them increases. That's why it's important to keep a cool head at all times, so that you don't give up information for a price you don't actually like.

[Prims]

Excel Spreadsheet updated.

I should probably move this to a google doc sometime, not sure why I haven't done it already...

might go through the trouble of adding older games and making a separate OC spreadsheet if I do that, not sure

Edited March 16, 2014 by Prims

[SB.]

I was the voyeur in semi precious, not the hijacker.

[Prims]

I should probably move this to a google doc sometime, not sure why I haven't done it already...

might go through the trouble of adding older games and making a separate OC spreadsheet if I do that, not sure

wow I have no idea how to make a spreadsheet "sortable" like it is in excel when using google docs

somebody explain that shit to me, I have not been able to figure out what keywords to search to make google do that for me.

E: apparently I'm supposed to use "filter views" but the option to make them literally is not there. Thanks Google.

E2: okay that's because I made the sheet without checking some arbitrary setting I didn't know existed until afterwards, and also filter views are horribly inefficient. Not even going to bother with this until Google Docs stops being complete trash for these kinds of spreadsheets.

E3: might try updating the excel spreadsheet anyway though, it could be changed to have, like, links to games and player profiles

Edited March 16, 2014 by Prims

[SB.]

[09:46:37] SB: maybe i really should make a design philosiphy post in general discussion or something

[09:46:47] Manix: probs an idea

But then I posted it in info dump anyway.

So I'm basically gonna go over a few things I think are kind of important when making balanced setups or whatever. I'm interested to hear people's responses to this and their thoughts on them.

[spoiler=setup design philosophy]

Designing Fakeclaims Into The Setup

Designing a game and waiting for it to finally end up with it's turn on the queue can sometimes take a long time. It's kind of lame to get to that point and then just have scum rolled over because they have bad claims like bodyguard or get counterclaimed by town with the same or very similar roles. Not every town needs all of a Cop/Doc/Tracker/Watcher/Vig/Hooker, and getting scum fakes of some strong role and something provable can go a long way to stop things like this from happening. If the fakeclaim is useless/incredibly for scum, you could always combine it with something else (eg Neighbourizer Rolecop) since scum roles are sort of meant to be stronger than town ones just due to the numbers advantage.

Direct Counters To Specific Roles Are Lame

This is referring to roles like Tailor and Ninja (and to a lesser extent, strongman, but I have other problems with that role so) that exist to mess with one or two specific town roles. First off, they're kind of lame in the way that once that role goes down then why do you even need the counter to it anymore? In case a backup magically shows up and screws you over? It's unlikely. The other part of this is "oh ninja flip. There's a tracker or watcher on town's side!" and it generates more clears when really that's the last thing the scumteam need after one of their members flips. Cardflip can avert the latter point somewhat, but the role name might still give it away unless it's a Joat or Inventor or something.

Vanilla Is A Good Role

Most of SF seems to hate them, but whatever. Vanillas are NOT bad to put in your setup, they make games less swingy and more based around the player's skill. Night actions tend to end up cleaning a lot more players than you might expect in the design stage (for an example, see EO2!Poly who I figured out was town by the fact that he wasted his drive in a way that scum had no benefit in doing.) Trying to just fill your game with power roles is how games like Toonami and Healer end up happening with op towns 95% of the time because they have a ridiculous amount of protection or investigation and the mafia just can't keep up with that because they only have one hooker or redirection role.

On a somewhat related note, even if you want role madness there should still be weak town PRs like neighbours and similar just so that scum isn't overwhelmed. Also randomly assigning miller to something could be argued to be a buff over a nerf, due to a higher chance to hit mafia by the cop. If you want a specific PR like bomb or bp that's hard to kill off to be unclearable fine, but I think having a miller helps town more then it harms them.

Town Doesn't Need Tons Of Investigation

This is a kind of major thing. Town can figure out a LOT from just massclaiming and comparing night actions and such. They don't need a couple of fulltime Cops/Rolecops/Trackers/Watchers/Voyeurs all in there too in order to catch scum, and if you generally think that you need to include fulltime checks/counters to these roles, then it becomes kind of a problem. In a small game, town only really needs maybe two investigative roles (or some sort of backup or a pair of masons.) Town's way to winning is supposed to be scumhunting and using roles to help that, not using roles primarily with scumhunting as an afterthought. The mafia need the ability to generate mislynches, and that becomes impossible when they're too busy dodging cops and trackers that can PoE them down really quickly. Splitting investigative roles into a couple of weaker ones can work to an extent I guess, but not to the point where every townie seems to have one (see EO2 for why this goes wrong.)

What A Scumteam Needs

Scum are naturally going to need stronger roles than town do, just due to the numbers advantage. Unless you're going mass-vanilla, every scumteam needs to have a hooker or some sort of redirection (although the first is probably better imo) to keep up with the town's roles. Possibly two (or a backup) in case of an early or crucial death in the scumteam due to a random cop report or a bad D1 lynch for them. Info is probably important, but I don't really think that fulltime info roles are? A large chunk of the game ends up claiming fairly early on anyway in a lot of games so it ends up being worthless lategame, while town investigation just ends up snowballing and becoming stronger (this goes for a lot of town roles, actually) so generally scum want to have some form of strong lategame (people are usually salty about doing this with extra votes and stuff here, but whatever.) Joats tend to usually be good roles for scum too, but I'm kind of shaky on kill Joats just for the reasons that I mentioned earlier.

Edited March 16, 2014 by SB.

[Prims]

godfather is an exception to the direct counter rule imo (although i don't really agree with the direct counter rule in the first place but i also think people should stop being babies about ninjas in set-ups with no tracker/watcher and etc). always have a godfather or something similar if you have a cop, always