387 replies to this topic

[Kaoz]

Thanks to eclipse for spellchecking, I hope the following is of some use:

Vanilla Townie - Overview

By definition, a Vanila is a role without any special abilities. They cannot protect others like a Doctor and they cannot find members of the Mafia like a Cop. Surely these guys are completly worthless, right?
This couldn't be further from the truth. Even though Vanillas do not possess any extraordinary traits, they still have access to the two most important attributes a Townie can have:
their brain and their vote.

Always remember that the Town's objective is to eliminate all Mafia (and possibly a few 3rd party roles), and Vigs aside, the lynch is their only way to achieve that goal.


How to play as Vanilla Townie?

Whereas the execution of playing this role perfectly is a bit more difficult, the premise is pretty simple.

BE ACTIVE!

Vanilla roles require some of the highest activity ratio, maybe even the highest of all roles.
By being active you will gain more information (and not just any information but the information you require) which will help make informed decisions regarding the lynch.
As such, pressure people. Question their actions and contributions. Spot inconsistencies. Do all of these and the Town will greatly benefit from your actions.

As you gain more experience and get better at finding Anti-Town on your own (note that in order to get that experience, you have to start somewhere), this also has the nice side effect that the Mafia will seriously consider you as target for their night kill, which means you will protect more important roles.


Conclusion

Vanillas are not the most powerful roles around, but that does not mean they cannot make a difference. More often than not, they will.

Also note that everything you just read can be applied to most other Town roles (with slight modifications).

[Cap'n Flint]

From what I recall, it means that players are listed from most to least suspicious and the higher a player is on that list, the earlier he claims.


That being said, I am against that sort of claiming. IIRC you guys took like 3 day phases for it in DT2M and we don't have that kind of time.

More later.

EXACTLY why I hate pop corn style claiming.

Edited by Cap'n Flint, 13 December 2011 - 04:13 PM.

[Witch]

Proper way to Popcorn claim is that town in general picks a suspicious player to go first. After claiming, the chosen player then picks the person they think is the most suspicious to go next, and the process repeats itself.




The idea is that the scummier players claim before the townies, increasing the chance of scum getting snagged by a counterclaim or a tracker/watcher result that proves them wrong.

Edited by Prims, 14 December 2011 - 07:34 PM.

[Tricky Dick]

Proper way to Popcorn claim is that town in general picks a suspicious player to go first. After claiming, the chosen player then picks the person they think is the most suspicious to go next, and the process repeats itself.

The idea is that the scummier players claim before the townies, increasing the chance of scum getting snagged by a counterclaim or a tracker/watcher result that proves them wrong.

This makes absolutely no sense. Because (once again) "suspicion" in a NOC game is glorified guesswork. People get credited for nothing more than lucky guesses in that game unless you're playing against retards.

[Witch]

I don't see the point in arguing with that since it sounds like you're already convinced NOC is shit, in which case I don't see why you even care about popcorn claiming in the first place. :shrug:

[Paperblade]

read like a book

[Tricky Dick]

I don't see the point in arguing with that since it sounds like you're already convinced NOC is shit, in which case I don't see why you even care about popcorn claiming in the first place. :shrug:

Because people are determined to "prove" that there is skill in NOC. Like you.

There is no skill in NOC. You can't co-ordinate shit without the mafia knowing AKA you just plain can't co-ordinate shit in the beginning. If there's two mafias, crossfire will happen because that's what happens with random aiming. And logical sense gets tossed out the windows and gets replaced with "feelings".

[Witch]

yes i am most definitely trying to prove that there is skill involved in NOC by saying "I don't see the point of arguing since you already think NOC is shit"

Man why do you even care if people believe NOC involves skill or not? Seems like you're getting upset because other people are having fun playing a game.

[Tables]

Ahahaha. No skill in NOC. No skill in NOC? That's completely crap and you know it. Unfortunately many players here haven't developed the proper skills for NOC, and the way we play in general makes it pretty random (lots of roles), but there's definitely skill involved. Just look at some of the bigger mafia communities online. Most of those are NOC, and if it was just a 1-2 month experience ultimately decided by luck, believe me, most of those wouldn't be there.

OC is much more skillful for the town leader, and for the mafia, while everyone else becomes considerably less important, and all they can really do is scumhunt in the thread and talk to people... hey, that's just what NOC skills are, isn't it?

[kirsche]

As much as I like NOC, there's so many of them going on right now its getting boring.

[Tricky Dick]

Ahahaha. No skill in NOC. No skill in NOC? That's completely crap and you know it. Unfortunately many players here haven't developed the proper skills for NOC, and the way we play in general makes it pretty random (lots of roles), but there's definitely skill involved. Just look at some of the bigger mafia communities online. Most of those are NOC, and if it was just a 1-2 month experience ultimately decided by luck, believe me, most of those wouldn't be there.

If I'm the world champion of competitive hotdog eating, is that skill? No, that's called being a fatass. It's the same thing here. What you call skill is really luck in disguise.

Please explain where skill exists in NOC. All you did was say "lol no even though we prove otherwise".

OC is much more skillful for the town leader, and for the mafia, while everyone else becomes considerably less important, and all they can really do is scumhunt in the thread and talk to people... hey, that's just what NOC skills are, isn't it?

My fucking god, Tables. That's the most important thing in OC games. The town leader is in the WORST position to find mafia members because no mafia member (that's got at least 3 brain cells and knows how to dimly use them) is going to slip up when talking to him. But they might to a townie who's pulling bullshit out of his ass.

[Leder]

People like to play what they want to play, can we just... settle down the OC/NOC argument? I dislike OC because it saps away the element of surprise. Limited OC is quite all right in my book, because it makes the system much less broken and eliminates the problems and issues surrounding town leaders.

However, this whole "one is better than the other" debate frustrates me, because each of the two styles has its pros and cons, and each has its certain playertype that it appeals to. I'm not the same person I once was--I'm not going to VEHEMENTLY ASSERT that NOC is the better style simply because I happen to enjoy playing it more and am more familiar with the mechanics of NOC. If I see any more of this:

What you call skill is really luck in disguise.

(this is largely your opinion)

then I'm going to sfdsgssdsddfddfhgfg
;'l;kfslaf;lasfjlf
flaslk;falk;.

Edited by Levantamos, 16 December 2011 - 10:51 AM.

[eclipse]

I like OC, but I don't like it here. If this was a forum where people took initiative, and struck up conversations with everyone, it would work, but we've got way too many people that refuse to talk. That's why I'm hosting NOC; it forces people to think for themselves, or look like sheep.

[Witch]

I don't see the point in giving legitimate arguments in response to somebody who is either A. intentionally trying to make people mad or B. getting upset because people are having fun playing something he doesn't like. It's a waste of time either way.

[Solais]

But they might to a townie who's pulling bullshit out of his ass.

Townie?

Sir, I am no townie.

I'll let you in on a little secret: I'm actually the wolf. I'm pretty much screwed! But guess what? If you take me along for the ride...maybe we can give each other a chance?

[Tricky Dick]

I'll let you in on a little secret: I'm actually the wolf. I'm pretty much screwed! But guess what? If you take me along for the ride...maybe we can give each other a chance?

Welcome to my strategy. I think I single-handedly screwed 3 Mafia members as Rogue? AKA a role where I don't do anything.

[eclipse]

FOR GAME DESIGNERS:

STICK NEEDLES IN PAPERBLADE'S FACE

[Rapier]

This makes absolutely no sense. Because (once again) "suspicion" in a NOC game is glorified guesswork. People get credited for nothing more than lucky guesses in that game unless you're playing against retards.

This make absolutely no sense.²

You can't make a proper assumption about someone being scummy or not, but you can -guess- the probability of him/her being scum with a bit of logic and detective work. It isn't mere guesswork.

If I'm the world champion of competitive hotdog eating, is that skill? No, that's called being a fatass. It's the same thing here. What you call skill is really luck in disguise.

Please explain where skill exists in NOC. All you did was say "lol no even though we prove otherwise".

Don't try to mix things that have nothing to do at all.

About NOC, it's all about playing the cards straight, using a bit of logic and detective work. That's how it's been working for ages. If someone can't work through the factor of not contacting anyone, then it's their problem for not being able to adapt to that style. Just please don't ask me to prove it with actions because I suck at Mafias. DX

I like OC, but I don't like it here. If this was a forum where people took initiative, and struck up conversations with everyone, it would work, but we've got way too many people that refuse to talk. That's why I'm hosting NOC; it forces people to think for themselves, or look like sheep.

They'll never learn if you don't make them get used to OCs, Clipsey...

Edited by Rapier, 19 December 2011 - 07:24 AM.

[Tricky Dick]

They'll never learn if you don't make them get used to OCs, Clipsey...

This is the reason why I raped OC games. Because I was the only one who would go out of his way to gain info on everyone.

[Witch]

This make absolutely no sense.²

You can't make a proper assumption about someone being scummy or not, but you can -guess- the probability of him/her being scum with a bit of logic and detective work. It isn't mere guesswork.

Eh.

NOC pretty much is guesswork, but it's educated guesswork based off of analyzing interactions with flipped players and prior experience with the game. It's not random at all unless you're playing it at a very low level where nobody knows how to play the game. Most people who say things like "NOC is all luck" seem to typically be the ones who are shit at the game in the first place.

It's basically a game of experience. Townies and scum play differently, for obvious reasons. As you roll different alignments and play in more games, it becomes easier to tell the difference between them because you're used to the goals and tactics as both. It's not as easy to "just look like town" as scum as it sounds, since you're informed minority and it's harder to fake scumhunting if you already know everything anyway (and of course, you need to alter your play to work with your scumbuddies while they're alive).

Alternately, you could just learn how to become a psychic.

It's definitely not a game for everybody, and if somebody prefers OC because NOC never has absolutes or whatever, I'm not going to criticize them for it.