215 replies to this topic

[Bluedoom]

Anyone up for a Pokemon Soulsilver draft? I thought of going through Johto again and wanted to try a draft. :3

Rules:
2. You can't abuse your starter either.
3. This draft is up till fighting Blue, however we may decide to continue to fight red if majority agrees later on.
5. Drafting order will be randomized. Did I forget to mention it'd be snake-like?
6. Lugia/Ho-oh is banned.
7. Eah player gets to Draft 7 seperate pokemon from Johto. You can also get the Hoenn starter from the professor if you can even bother training it. Gyarados includes red gyarados. Electorde includes the electrodes in the hidden TR base. I'll also allow a seperate round where you can draft 2 ( Hoenn and Sinnoh) Pokemon which is after the League. This round is the Kanto round.
8. Ok, its not just a Soulsilver draft, its a Heartgold draft as well.
10. You also can use only as many pokemon as the gym leader has in a gym battle

Grinding is allowed and do whatever the hell you want. :(

HM slave allowed. Makes no difference, I learnt. xP

You are allowed to capture as many of the drafted species as you want, but only one can be used at a time.

Spoiler (List)

Caterpie/Metapod/Butterfree
Weedle/Kakuna/Beedrill
Ekans/Arbok
Sandshrew/Sandslash
Clefairy/Clefable
Jigglypuff/Wigglytuff
Oddish/Gloom/Vileplume
Oddish/Gloom/Bellossom
Paras/Parasect
Diglett/Dugtrio
Meowth/Persian (SS Exclusive)
Psyduck/Golduck
Mankey/Primeape (HG Exclusive)
Growlithe/Arcanine (HG Exclusive)
Poliwag/Poliwhirl/Poliwrath
Poliwag/Poliwhirl/Politoed
Ponyta/Rapidash
Slowpoke/Slowking
Seel/Dewgong
Grimer/Muk
Shellder/Cloyster
Drowzee/Hypno
Krabby/Kingler
Voltorb/Electrode
Exeggcute/Exeggutor
Cubone/Marowak
Tyrogue/Hitmonlee
Tyrogue/Hitmonchan
Tyrogue/Hitmontop
Lickitung
Koffing/Weezing
Chansey/Blissey
Tangela/Tangrowth
Kangaskhan
Horsea/Seadra/Kingdra
Goldeen/Seaking
Staryu/Starmie
Mr. Mime
Jynx
Magmar
Ditto
Eevee/Vaporeon
Eevee/Flareon
Spinarak/Ariados (HG Exclusive)
Togepi/Togetic/Togekiss
Natu/Xatu
Marill/Azumarill
Hoppip/Skiploom/Jumpluff
Aipom/Ambipom
Sunkern/Sunflora
Misdreavus/Mismagius
Unown
Wobbuffet
Pineco/Forretress
Dunsparce
Gligar/Gliscor (HG Exclusive)
Snubbull/Granbull
Qwilfish
Shuckle
Sneasel/Weavile
Teddiursa/Ursaring (SS Exclusive)
Slugma/Magcargo
Swinub/Piloswine/Mamoswine
Corsola
Remoraid/Octillery
Delibird (SS Exclusive)
Mantine (HG Exclusive)
Skarmory (SS Exclusive)
Houndour/Houndoom
Stantler
Smeargle
Larvitar/Pupitar/Tyranitar

Participants:

5. Manix : Eevee/Espeon, Raikou, Tentacool/Tentacruel, Miltank, Magnemite/Magneton/Magnezone.
4. Overlord Zetta: Geodude/Graveller/Golem, Scyther/ Scizor, Abra/Kadabra/Alakazam, Doduo/Dodrio, Eevee/Jolteon, Houndour/Houndoom
6. The Smiithy Gang: Onix/Steelix, Eevee/Umbreon, Gastly/haunter/Gengar, Pidgey/Pidgeotto/Pidgeot, Wooper/Quagsire, Sneasel/Weavile
3. Genaral Horace: Sentret/Furret, Machop/Machoke/Machamp, Spearow/Fearow, Sudowoodo, Tauros, Venonat/Venomoth
7. Dr. Will: Girafarig,Lapras, Ratatta/ Raticate, Rhyhorn/Rhydon/Rhyperior, Ledyba/Ledian, Farfetch'd
8. Bolting : Heracross, Bellsprout/Weepinbell/Victreebell, Chincou/Lanturn, Murkrow/Honchkrow, Phanpy/Donphan, Dratini/Dragonair/Dragonite
1. blues: Mareep/Flaafy/Ampharos, Hoothoot/Noctowl, Nidoran M/Nidorino/Nidoking, Vulpix/Ninetails, Pinsir, Slowpoke/Slowbro, Zapdos.
2. V-Raven: Magikarp/Gyardos, Zubat/Golbat/Crobat, Entei, Yanma/Yanmega, Drowzee/Hypno, Nidoran(F)/Nidorina/Nidoqueen, Snorlax
Order: 5 4 6 9 3 7 8 1 2 10 10 2 1 8 7 3 9 6 4 5

Edited by blues, 05 November 2011 - 12:23 AM.

[Raven]

Sounds interesting. It'll give me a reason to return to the game. Sign me up son.

Edited by V-Raven, 21 October 2011 - 10:18 AM.

[Bluedoom]

I've signed you up Raven.

[General Horace]

I'd like to sign up, but I only have my old copy of Silver, so unless that's ok...

I guess I could emulate if you wanted everyone playing the same game though.

[Stark]

Tentatively in. I have a copy of Soul Silver I could restart. A couple questions, however. Do we all get to chose whatever starter we want and use it freely? Also, how do we determine who wins? Time? I'll be playing on cartridge so I won't have the advantage of save states. Also, if no one wants to do the big grind to fight Red, playing until Blue is also an option since he doesn't have the insane level jump. (high 50s as opposed to mid 80s) I'd kind of like the go the whole way however.

[FalconVegeta1986]

Hm, a pokemon draft does seem alot easier than a FE draft. Give me a moment to think about it.

[Manix]

I'm so in. I'm willing to say go to Red, but going to Blue (as Overlord Zetta suggested) is fine as well.

Another few things I've noticed:
No item trade induced evolutions are present. Does that mean no trading to evolve at all?
No Lugia? Wondering what the deal is there.
Also, if (and only if) this is a SoulSilver draft only, you may need to take out the HeartGold exclusives. (check here: http://www.serebii.n...xclusives.shtml)
How many Pokemon are we drafting? Would be nice to know.
WRT to who "wins": I'm not honestly fussed. I don't think time is an appropriate method, however.

[FalconVegeta1986]

I decided I want to be in, and I think everyone should give Red at least one try, even if it's decided that nothing counts after Blue. Because really, why go as far as Blue, and not take it that little bit extra?

[Baldrick]

I might be in, depending on which versions are allowed. My computer can barely handle DS emulators...

For the win condition, total/average level could work.

[FalconVegeta1986]

I don't see why overall time is a problem if we're not allowed to grind. It's the only win condition that can't really be abused.

[Stark]

No evolutions are listed at all besides eeveelutions, so I'm not sure if that means anything. I'd personally be all for allowing any and all trade evos as long as you the item needed comes from the draft game in question. As for Lugia, I'd guess its not included for being a mandatory capture that trivializes the E4, and is head and shoulders above other available Pokémon for the rest of the game, so I'm thinking it is banned.

As for the "win con," here's an idea I had. Since the fastest way to speed through the game is just soloing with your starter, why not make it so your "Final Score" is your time minus a certain % based on how many Pokémon you train, say -5% for each Pokémon used beyond one? For example, soloing the game with your starter in 20 hours, your final is 20 hours, while using a team of 6 and completing the game in 25 hours subtracts 25%, so a final of 18.75 hours. To prevent have a "team" consisting of 1-2 trained pokes and hm slaves, force team members to be within a certain number of levels to be counted. This idea might not work out well at all in practice, but considering none of the drafts so far seem to have figured out a good way to determine who wins, it might be worth a shot. If we decide it's ridiculous and drop it nothing is lost as opposed to playing for fun.

[Bluedoom]

I was unsure about the rest of the rules, so as Mist pointed out a few, I'll say this:

I copied the list from Arachnid's list in the Crystal Draft. But I'l say it now: No legendaries allowed. Also I think I'll allow Heartgold players in as well since I don't like skipping exclusives. So I'm going to allow only the lvl 47( right?) legendaries that you catch in your versions: Ho-oh and Lugia. Anything else is not allowed.

Trading is allowed, I forgot. I won't be able to trade however, since I'm emulating the game, but it really doesn't matter that much to me. All emulators are at a disadvantage because of this. However, I'm willing to allow an evolution hack here if other players agree: change the evolution requirements to a certain level that all players agree upon. An item evolution trade will change to an evolution while holding a certain item I guess? You guys can decide upon that. There's a particular programme that I have to help with that, I just forgot its name. I should probably check.

As to how many pokemon we are draftng, I'm not sure. How many basic stages do we have in this game? It'd be nice to know that since I was thinking of 9 pokemon for each excluding starter.( maybe that IS too much.)

Also you all are free to choose which starter you want to take. Any objections? I could dividie it such that each starter can be used by three players only and the last player can choose his starter.

Oh yeah, no save states allowed. I've never really played my DS emulation games with save states.

Also I've played Silver before, but I'm wondering how much easier/harder it is compared to Soulsilver. Excluding the battle frontier, I've forgotten the changes we've had in the game. If there's minimal changes and the difficulty gap is barely existent, I'm willing to allow the GBA versions as well.( been a long time since I played Silver.)

Also an exception for grinding would be if your pokemon is almost near a level up( like say, past 4/5th of the bar). Is this acceptable? Because I don't see how an extra level up would make a difference, unless we're learning a new move. :S

I think win condition would be fair enough WRT time.

Playing till Blue is fair enough, and MAYBE we can try for Red later on.


Also maybe we should play this for tiering like the Black draft? Would be fun I suppose.

[Bluedoom]

No evolutions are listed at all besides eeveelutions, so I'm not sure if that means anything. I'd personally be all for allowing any and all trade evos as long as you the item needed comes from the draft game in question. As for Lugia, I'd guess its not included for being a mandatory capture that trivializes the E4, and is head and shoulders above other available Pokémon for the rest of the game, so I'm thinking it is banned.

As for the "win con," here's an idea I had. Since the fastest way to speed through the game is just soloing with your starter, why not make it so your "Final Score" is your time minus a certain % based on how many Pokémon you train, say -5% for each Pokémon used beyond one? For example, soloing the game with your starter in 20 hours, your final is 20 hours, while using a team of 6 and completing the game in 25 hours subtracts 25%, so a final of 18.75 hours. To prevent have a "team" consisting of 1-2 trained pokes and hm slaves, force team members to be within a certain number of levels to be counted. This idea might not work out well at all in practice, but considering none of the drafts so far seem to have figured out a good way to determine who wins, it might be worth a shot. If we decide it's ridiculous and drop it nothing is lost as opposed to playing for fun.

Good idea for winning, we COULD try it out?

Its hard for designing rules for a draft in a game like
pokemon.

[Stark]

So wait, if I'm reading that right, Lugia/Ho-oh is allowed but the legendary dogs are not? Not really sure what the reasoning for that is, as the cover legends are much stronger. The main problems with the dogs are if you draft them, the time spent searching for them would kill your run in all likelihood.

Free choice in starters sounds good.

The levels of gym leaders are basically increased across the board in the remakes. While it isn't that noticeable in many cases in Johto, in Kanto, which is basically a roflstomp in the originals, the increase can be almost 10 levels in places. I think that might be enough of a difference to restrict it to the new games. It's your decision in the end.

Is grinding banned? Trying to raise a team of six with absolutely no grinding involved will be interesting, to say the least. My least favorite thing about HG/SS is the lack of the Vs. Seeker/Match Call.

Also, if we are allowing both version the Pokémon could probable be listed as Growlithe/Vulpix etc. as one draftable Pokémon.

As for the time ruleset above, I'm basically just throwing it out there as a possibility. It was the only real thing that came to mind when I thought about it.

Edited by Overlord Zetta, 21 October 2011 - 11:08 PM.

[Bluedoom]

So wait, if I'm reading that right, Lugia/Ho-oh is allowed but the legendary dogs are not? Not really sure what the reasoning for that is, as the cover legends are much stronger. The main problems with the dogs are if you draft them, the time spent searching for them would kill your run in all likelihood.

Free choice in starters sounds good.

The levels of gym leaders are basically increased across the board in the remakes. While it isn't that noticeable in many cases in Johto, in Kanto, which is basically a roflstomp in the originals, the increase can be almost 10 levels in places. I think that might be enough of a difference to restrict it to the new games. It's your decision in the end.

Is grinding banned? Trying to raise a team of six with absolutely no grinding involved will be interesting, to say the least. My least favorite thing about HG/SS is the lack of the Vs. Seeker/Match Call.

Also, if we are allowing both version the Pokémon could probable be listed as Growlithe/Vulpix etc. as one draftable Pokémon.

As for the time ruleset above, I'm basically just throwing it out there as a possibility. It was the only real thing that came to mind when I thought about it.

If you say that the cover legendaries are stronger than the dogs, I'm all up for bannign legendaries. I mean, its not like we're using the dogs( I personally haven't found Lugia really awesome, but it IS good.)

If the levels of the gym leaders are greater, I think we'd have to stick to the DS remakes. Its seems fair that way.

I wanted grinding to be banned, with a few exceptions. But if everyone is interested in not grinding at all, I might as well TOTALLY ban it. Its just that its a little pissing off when your pokemon is near a level up and you can't battle a wildie to level it up.

Probably I'd let cases such as Growlithe/Vulpix as one draftable pokemon, but they're both different pokemon, as such, I'm not sure if that should be done.

[General Horace]

IIRC the only gym that got a buff was Falkner, because he was so pathetic in the GBC era.

To simplify things, I can just emulate.

[Bluedoom]

IIRC the only gym that got a buff was Falkner, because he was so pathetic in the GBC era.

To simplify things, I can just emulate.

Falkner is STILL sorta pathetic. Just that roost is a big boost ( and probably in a draft like this he's a challenge.)

[Manix]

Firstly, all the things I say are under the assumption we are playing for time as a victory condition.

Also I think I'll allow Heartgold players in as well since I don't like skipping exclusives.

Great idea, I'm fine with that.

So I'm going to allow only the lvl 47( right?) legendaries that you catch in your versions: Ho-oh and Lugia. Anything else is not allowed.

This I'm not so sure on. Considering (hypothetically) if you draft a legendary beast, the amount of time you'll have to forfeit just to get them is probably penalty enough anyway. I say they should be allowed (and besides, Suicune is in Kanto, far too late to be as strong as the other two)

Trading is allowed, I forgot.

Cool.

As to how many pokemon we are draftng, I'm not sure. How many basic stages do we have in this game? It'd be nice to know that since I was thinking of 9 pokemon for each excluding starter.( maybe that IS too much.)

By my count, there are 93 (but, Poliwag/Politoed and Slowpoke/Slowking need to be added), but actually 95 (excluding legendaries, which would be 98 if included(See second point)). 9 each is possibly too many, but you couldn't train that many in a timed environment anyway without failing hard due to being ridiculously underleveled.

Also you all are free to choose which starter you want to take. Any objections? I could dividie it such that each starter can be used by three players only and the last player can choose his starter.

No, I think starters should be able to be chosen as a choice, not have limited numbers on them.

Also an exception for grinding would be if your pokemon is almost near a level up( like say, past 4/5th of the bar). Is this acceptable? Because I don't see how an extra level up would make a difference, unless we're learning a new move. :S

WRT to grinding, given the timed environment, it should be allowed, but you would try to avoid it whenever possible. But hey, that's just my stance.

I think win condition would be fair enough WRT time.

Kay.

So wait, if I'm reading that right, Lugia/Ho-oh is allowed but the legendary dogs are not? Not really sure what the reasoning for that is, as the cover legends are much stronger. The main problems with the dogs are if you draft them, the time spent searching for them would kill your run in all likelihood.

Yeah, pretty much, I explained that above as well.

The levels of gym leaders are basically increased across the board in the remakes. While it isn't that noticeable in many cases in Johto, in Kanto, which is basically a roflstomp in the originals, the increase can be almost 10 levels in places. I think that might be enough of a difference to restrict it to the new games. It's your decision in the end.

Probably leave it to just the new games, and they also run at different speeds.

Probably I'd let cases such as Growlithe/Vulpix as one draftable pokemon, but they're both different pokemon, as such, I'm not sure if that should be done.

Keep them separate. No point restricting further.

[Baldrick]

The major differences between the two would be movesets, different attacks hitting sp. def, and abilities. The originals also play faster, so a time penalty would probably be appropriate.

[Bluedoom]

Firstly, all the things I say are under the assumption we are playing for time as a victory condition.


Great idea, I'm fine with that.


This I'm not so sure on. Considering (hypothetically) if you draft a legendary beast, the amount of time you'll have to forfeit just to get them is probably penalty enough anyway. I say they should be allowed (and besides, Suicune is in Kanto, far too late to be as strong as the other two)


Cool.


By my count, there are 93 (but, Poliwag/Politoed and Slowpoke/Slowking need to be added), but actually 95 (excluding legendaries, which would be 98 if included(See second point)). 9 each is possibly too many, but you couldn't train that many in a timed environment anyway without failing hard due to being ridiculously underleveled.


No, I think starters should be able to be chosen as a choice, not have limited numbers on them.


WRT to grinding, given the timed environment, it should be allowed, but you would try to avoid it whenever possible. But hey, that's just my stance.


Kay.



Yeah, pretty much, I explained that above as well.


Probably leave it to just the new games, and they also run at different speeds.




Keep them separate. No point restricting further.

I think we could use Overlord's time suggestion as means of winning this draft. At least it makes sure we don't overpower with the starter.

Or just imply a rule that the rest of the team shouldn't have over a seven level difference.

The rest of the rules and suggestios seem fair enough.