73 replies to this topic

[Othin]

Don't count for what? I don't remember any "Thunder fighters", either.

Iron and Steel weapons exist. Agree? It's a simple yes or no answer.

[CrashGordon94]

Thunder Mages! Tiltyu and FE10!Ilyana!

[Othin]

Okay, so FE4 and FE10 have such classes. FE5 and FE9 do not. Sounds like it doesn't make much of a difference.

And you're still not answering my question. The way Thunder magic existed in those games was not in the way Swords exist in every game; there is no dispute as to that. All I am saying is that there are other forms in which a group of equipment can exist.

[CrashGordon94]

"Groups of equipment" =/= "Actual weapon types" and I'm only talking about the latter.


And it still has a rank of its own in FE5 and FE10.

[Othin]

"Groups of equipment" =/= "Actual weapon types" and I'm only talking about the latter.


And it still has a rank of its own in FE5 and FE10.

Problem is, the rest of us are not only talking about the weapon types as explicitly defined by the game, and yet you persistently ignore that fact. All I and others are trying to say is that dark/thunder/whatever magic exists in some form as some group of equipment, not necessarily a group explicitly defined by the game as a weapon type.

Of course Thunder magic has a rank of its own in FE5/9; that's exactly my point: Classes being named after the group of equipment isn't actually relevant. Just as there is no need for Iron/Steel Fighters or an Iron/Steel weapon rank for Iron/Steel to exist as clear groups of equipment, there is no need for Dark/Thunder Mages or a Dark/Thunder rank for Dark/Thunder to exist as clear groups of equipment

Edited by Othin, 31 December 2011 - 09:28 AM.

[CrashGordon94]

But "groups of equipment" are completely irrelevant, is Dark Magic isn't its own weapon type then it doesn't exist period.

[Rewjeo]

No, that's not true. Do steel weapons not exist period just because there isn't a steel weapon type?

[CrashGordon94]

That doesn't matter and is not relevant to the discussion.

[Celice]

if Dark Magic isn't its own weapon type then it doesn't exist period.

Is somehow not the same as

if Steel Sword isn't its own weapon type then it doesn't exist period.

I'd really like to see how you come to these differing opinions about the same qualitative issue.

What weapon types exist in the original FE1, according to you, then? That might shine some light on how you get to these views.

Edited by Celice, 31 December 2011 - 12:31 PM.

[CrashGordon94]

Because Dark Magic is an actual category, so it exists when it has its own rank and stuff.
On the other hand Steels are not an actual category.

[General Banzai]

Steel Sword, Steel Blade, Steel Poleax, Steel Axe, Steel Greatlance, Steel Lance, Steel Bow, Steel Longbow, Steel Knife, Steel Dagger

[Rothene]

Here's to more Dark magic using chicks whom hopefully aren't like Sophia...

[CrashGordon94]

Steel Sword, Steel Blade, Steel Poleax, Steel Axe, Steel Greatlance, Steel Lance, Steel Bow, Steel Longbow, Steel Knife, Steel Dagger

This refutes nothing, there are a few of them but they're not (and neer will be) an actual category like Swords or yes, Dark Magic.

An actual category like Dark Magic only "exists" when it's distinct and has its own rank (or at the least, just the first one, like FE9!Knives and Crossbows), where something like Steel "exists" as long as there are a few examples of it.

[Othin]

An actual category like Dark Magic only "exists" when it's distinct and has its own rank (or at the least, just the first one, like FE9!Knives and Crossbows), where something like Steel "exists" as long as there are a few examples of it.

And now we get to the crux of it that you've been avoiding for so long: Why should Steel have a lower standard of existence than Dark?

[CrashGordon94]

Because they're not an actual weapon type like Dark Magic.

[Othin]

type (plural types)
A grouping based on shared characteristics; a class.

Steel weapons are a grouping of weapons based on shared characteristics, therefore they are a weapon type. That type is not one that is treated as a specific group of weapons characters have access to all of or none of depending on their class. However, in FE11/12, as we are discussing, neither is dark magic.

[CrashGordon94]

I meant "type" as in Swords, Axes, Lances and Bows, that type of thing. I thought that would be pretty fucking obvious, I said Dark Magic as an actual weapon type (like Swords/Lances/Axes/Bows) doesn't exist in FE11/12, it objectively doesn't.

[Othin]

I meant "type" as in Swords, Axes, Lances and Bows, that type of thing. I thought that would be pretty fucking obvious, I said Dark Magic as an actual weapon type (like Swords/Lances/Axes/Bows) doesn't exist in FE11/12, it objectively doesn't.

Of course it doesn't. That is not the dispute here, and I have explained that to you countless times already. I am saying that it exists in another relevant form, exactly like Iron and Steel weapons do.

[shadowofchaos]

Are you guys SERIOUSLY gonna argue about something like this so early into the New Year?

Ha ha... voice acting during battle. That girl's tone. XD

遊んであげるよ。 *Burns with dark-ish fire* (Okay, I'll play with you...)

もう終わり？ (Done already?)

That tone reminds me of a certain character... I just don't remember from what.

Edited by shadowofchaos, 01 January 2012 - 11:20 AM.

[General Banzai]

Wanna play? It'll be fun...

Hee hee... You smell like burning...

Have you seen my bear Tibbers?