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LTC'ing Lunatic Prologue With Merc!MU -- A How-To Guide


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#1 Kngt_Of_Titania

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 01:25 AM

~Introduction~

So I assume many of you already interested in LTC (Low Turn Count) Lunatic have already heard about the whole Fighter!MU vs. Armor!MU debate (which I can have no real directly informed opinion of, because I've never done Armor!MU prologue). IIRC, it was eventually determined that Armor!MU is easier and allows for more flexibility, but Fighter!MU has a one turn advantage overall (and free axe weapon level). After doing a couple of runs, one with Archer!MU and one with Fighter!MU, I got a good idea of how the enemy statistics grow between each chapter and just how massively important MU can be for turn counts. As a demonstration of the latter concept, let me show you my best prologue turn counts for Archer!MU versus Fighter!MU:

Spoiler (Archer!MU)


Spoiler (Fighter!MU)


This means that the choice of MU results in a TWELVE turn difference! Now obviously much of this is because Archer!MU has poor EP and loses large numbers of turns in P-1 and P-2 when it's JUST him, but hopefully the spirit of the idea got through.

So after these runs, I got to thinking. dondon's and my turn counts for P-8 are odd in the sense in that it didn't FEEL like the minimum for the given chapter -- it was more like you felt like you had to artificially wait for reinforcements to end before you could charge down and finish the chapter. I then wondered if it would be possible to get a much lower turn count for P-8 if you could somehow have enough offense to charge down while reinforcements are still spawning, which seems like (and is) an extremely difficult and risky venture. I couldn't do it with Archer!MU or Fighter!MU, so my thoughts intially wandered to Armor!MU; however, the issue is it would be difficult to get Armor!MU to not be doubled, which really would put a hamper on his overall effectiveness, and P-8 is long enough that Armor!MU's move could be an issue.

But what if you could make a MU that could double the thieves? Now, at first glance, this seems ridiculous -- I mean, the thieves have 12-14 SPD...and you wouldn't even be out of prologue yet! So what does this mean? Myrm!MU? Possibly, but Myrm!MU has serious issues with STR/DEF/HP, and you'd have serious issues staying alive, let alone not hemorrhaging turns.

What about Merc!MU? Well, Merc!MU doesn't reach the SPD needed on average...but what if you rigged growths just enough to make his SPD high enough? Well, depending on how you view it, it may be RNG abuse, but you don't need savestates to make it work, since the chapters are so short (30-60 seconds) you could re-do the chapter if the level isn't what you want, so it passes my "it's fine if you don't need savestates to make it work" rule...

And so my experiment began. How low can Merc!MU go turn count wise? Can it compete with Fighter!MU or Armor!MU? And if it could, how would it even work? If you're curious at all, read on!

Edited by Kngt_Of_Titania, 30 December 2011 - 07:10 AM.


#2 Kngt_Of_Titania

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 02:13 AM

~Making Your MU~

Alright, there is (AFAIK) only one set-up for Merc!MU that will work for LTC Lunatic. I'll show you my choices and explain why I picked each one.

Past: Clergy's Child (+2 DEF)
- So even Merc!MU, while durable compared to Myrm!MU, has serious issues staying alive in P-1 and P-2, before HP/DEF levels kick in. You need it to stay alive from Jagen, saving you 1 turn in P-1, and keeps you out of 2HKO range IIRC in P-2, saving at least 1 turn there.

Present: Beautiful (+1 SPD, +1 SKL, +10% SPD/SKL)
- You need 1 SPD above base to double Jagan, and I think you need it to double the thief in P-5 and it helps immensely to reach the "double everything" benchmark in P-8.

Future: Recluse (+15% STR/MAG)
- So, yeah, technically, you don't NEED this, and you can choose +30% HP or +15% LUK/+10% RES if you feel like being a complete moron, but we all know a class that doubles everything in prologue and has a low-ish STR base MIGHT possibly enjoy 15% more STR growth. Or at least...I hope we all do.


~P-1 (4 Turns)~
Rather simple strat.

Turn 1: Attack the soldier. Clergy's Child means he should only do 9 damage to you, allowing you to survive both the counter and EP with 2 health left. The soldier should die on EP.
Turn 2: Stand next to Jagen and use a vulnerary. This allows you to survive EP and counter. Clergy's Child again makes him do 10 damage instead of 12, allowing you to live.
Turn 3: Same as turn 2.
Turn 4: Finish off Jagen.

IMPORTANT! In order for P-2 to work, you need to get +HP/+DEF/+STR on level up. You should also get +SPD on every level up until P-5 for that strat to work (you need 16 SPD by P-5 IIRC).


~P-2 (4 Turns)~
Turn 1: Move Ryan down to the bottom fort. Move MU 1U, 1R from Ryan. Luke should attack Ryan.
Turn 2: Move Ryan 1D and attack Luke. Move MU to the fort and attack Luke. Ryan should have 1 HP left after EP.
Turn 3: Move Ryan 2U from Luke and attack him. Have MU finish Luke off. MU must get a +STR (+HP or +DEF highly recommended) level up for him to be able to finish off Rody on turn 4. Rody will attack MU on EP and be countered.
Turn 4: Have Ryan attack Rody. Have MU finish Rody off. MU would die on the counter, but he should just barely kill Rody so it doesn't matter.


~P-3 (3 or 4 Turns)~
Well, the 4 turn strat is exactly the same as dondon's (do the whole T-formation in the top-right corner on turn 1, take care of the units that attack on turn 2, pull Caeda on turn 3 with either Merc!MU or a 19+ HP lance wielding Luke, finish off on turn 4), so I'll go in much more detail on the 3 turn strat.

Turn 1: Have Ryan attack the enemy merc from 2R and then have MU finish off the merc, attacking from 1R. Have Rody and Luke switch weapons, and then have Luke move 1D 1L from MU. The end of turn 1 should look like this:
Posted Image
The closest enemy fighter will attack Ryan and Caeda will attack Luke, from my experience. Note that Luke's position prevents Caeda from reaching Ryan and ORKO'ing him, and the fighter just happens to be by a fortress coming into turn 2.

Turn 2: This turn is why I list either 3 OR 4 turns for P-3. You see, MU must go to the fort and ORKO the fighter with at least one crit -- he doubles and has a 6% chance per hit to crit, so the odds of this happening are roughly 11.7%, a bit low for my taste. I think if you can have 14 SKL going into P-3, making it 7% crit and a 13.5% chance, but that's not much better. As a note, this is the only time I'll ever mention critting as part of a strat. Anyways, just have Ryan attack Caeda and have Luke finish her off. Move Rody 2U 1L of MU and have him lure the last fighter. The end of the turn should look like this:
Posted Image

Turn 3: Have Ryan attack the fighter and then have MU finish him off. Again, make sure MU is getting +SPD level-ups (and you can give somebody else the merc kill so that MU's crit kill doesn't coincide with a level-up if you're savestating) and preferably +HP/+STR/+DEF (he'll need enough health to deal with Katarina in P-8 and enough STR to ORKO everything if he doubles, be mindful of that). This potential 3 turn clear is the first of many turns that Merc!MU can get over Fighter!MU.
Posted Image


~P-4, Athena (4 Turns)~
I came so close to 3 turning this, but the best I could do was leaving the last enemy with half health at the end of turn 3 enemy phase (and this requires a slightly different strat than I give because Caeda dodged a myrm's attack on turn 1); mainly the inability to double Athena makes this take longer than it needs to. Needless to say, this isn't hard to 4 turn, but I will give you the set-up anyways. Multiple strategies work past turn 1's set-up, so long as you aren't reckless enough to get somebody killed.

Before Battle: Make sure that the enemy archer has 18 ATK. This allows him to not OHKO Rhys, which is vital.
Turn 1: Caeda goes 1D from the enemy myrm and doubles him. Rody then goes 1L of the myrm and finishes him off. Ryan then goes 2L of the bottom soldier and attacks him; MU goes 1D of the same soldier and finishes him off. Rhys goes 1L of MU and heals him. Luke finishes the turn by going 1U of Rhys to form a blockade and protect Rhys (Do NOT Attack!). Your final positions should look something like this:
Posted Image
The enemy archer will attack Rhys, preventing MU from taking damage, and the soldier will attack Luke, causing Luke to counter. If Luke had attacked on turn 1, he would have died on EP.

Turn 2: Ryan attacks the archer, and MU finishes him off. Luke then trades Rhys for a vulnerary and heals himself. Rhys moves 1D and heals Caeda, who turn flies 2U 2R but does not to attack the myrm. The turn ends so:
Posted Image

Turn 3: Luke kills the soldier, MU moves 1L 2U and attacks Athena, Ryan moves 1D 2R and finishes off the last enemy myrm. Caeda moves 1U, and Rhys moves to the space below her and heals her. The turn concludes as such:
Posted Image

Turn 4: Caeda kills the enemy merc, Luke moves down some, Rhys heals MU for free XP (why not?), Ryan moves 1U 1R of Athena and attacks her, and MU finishes Athena off to end the chapter.


More to come later! Next: P-5 (3 Turns)!

Edited by Kngt_Of_Titania, 30 December 2011 - 07:07 AM.


#3 Ardan

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 05:40 AM

What about Merc!MU? Well, Merc!MU doesn't reach the SPD needed on average...but what if you rigged growths just enough to make his SPD high enough? W


Your main point selling point is the quality of a merc's rng abused stats? that is absurd. any unit is will turn out strong if you rng abuse. common sense.

#4 Kngt_Of_Titania

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 06:06 AM

Your main point selling point is the quality of a merc's rng abused stats? that is absurd. any unit is will turn out strong if you rng abuse. common sense.


No, you're not quite understanding what I'm trying to say. One of the selling points of Merc!MU is he has the real possibility of doubling the fastest enemies in the later prologue chapters because of his far superior base SPD to Fighter!MU and Armor!MU and enough STR/durability to take advantage of it.

You can't get Fighter!MU or Armor!MU to do the same thing, which is why you don't see suggestions to rig good levels in their general strats past like P-3 or maybe P-5. While you can get Fighter!MU to double slower to average SPD units, even a higher-than-average SPD warrior isn't going to double (and thus ORKO) crucial enemies in P-8 and struggles to not be doubled by Ogma, whose P-6 you want to go to for LTC because I find him way more helpful in P-8 than Draug. P-6 Ogma is kind of evil for Warrior!MU, but it's hardly a big deal for Merc!MU.

The difference between average Fighter!MU and blessed Fighter!MU isn't that large (maybe shaves 1 from turn count) simply because you can't get him to double enough for his gonzo STR to shine on Lunatic. Merc!MU doubles everything except Athena/Ogma if you do it right, so every point of STR Merc!MU gets is doubly potent, making a blessed Merc!MU amazing for turn counts. As I go on with this guide, you'll see I hit turn counts which are simply not possible with any other MU as far as I know.

The problem with LTC prologue in general is mostly that it's very dependent on MU performance in general; it's notoriously fickle. The difference in turn count in a level can simply come down to a single stat point in a single attribute for MU, and it can be difficult to find a good baseline for what's "fair" and what's not. So, if we're going to do LTC for FE12, we just notice that prologue chapters are extremely short, MU doesn't gain that many levels, and we can easily manipulate them without savestates, so we might as well go for the best turn count physically possible without random 2% crits. I'm doing this guide mainly for efficiency runners coming out of prologue (or, I suppose, even more casual players) who would like to have a viable option for MU with a good sword rank (Armor is lance, Warrior is axe) or who like the mercenary class in general.

Edited by Kngt_Of_Titania, 30 December 2011 - 06:19 AM.


#5 Othin

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 08:10 AM

Your main point selling point is the quality of a merc's rng abused stats? that is absurd. any unit is will turn out strong if you rng abuse. common sense.

Knight MU can have a base Speed of up to 3. For this strategy, it seems that MU needs to get a Speed of like 17 by the end. On LTC, those 14 level-ups needed for Knight MU to have even the slightest possibility of making it to that amount simply do not exist. No matter how much RNG abuse you do, some classes just can't reach the stats they're needed to for a given strategy.

Also, things like movement and weapon access can't be RNG abused, period.

Edited by Othin, 30 December 2011 - 08:13 AM.


#6 Kngt_Of_Titania

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 08:51 AM

Knight MU can have a base Speed of up to 3. For this strategy, it seems that MU needs to get a Speed of like 17 by the end. On LTC, those 14 level-ups needed for Knight MU to have even the slightest possibility of making it to that amount simply do not exist. No matter how much RNG abuse you do, some classes just can't reach the stats they're needed to for a given strategy.

Also, things like movement and weapon access can't be RNG abused, period.


I pretty much couldn't put it more eloquently or concisely if I tried.

As a side note, I haven't even gotten into the surprising turn counts yet. And the great part is Merc!MU has already made up its rocky start compared to Fighter!MU if you decide to 3 turn P-3.

3 turn P-5?
2 turn Ogma?
3 turn Cain (Alright, this one isn't THAT surprising)?
7 turn P-8?
Yes, they're possible, and I've got the screenies and the strats (for the most part). Posted Image

Edited by Kngt_Of_Titania, 30 December 2011 - 09:00 AM.


#7 Bluedoom

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 10:01 AM

I'm not sure about two turning Ogma. Would MU be able to take two hits- one from Ogma, and one from the archer? Unless we rig the chapter such that the archer has less attack, hrm...

MU would need good defence. Too bad the designers had to make the defence growth inferior. >.<

#8 Kngt_Of_Titania

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 10:28 AM

I'm not sure about two turning Ogma. Would MU be able to take two hits- one from Ogma, and one from the archer? Unless we rig the chapter such that the archer has less attack, hrm...

MU would need good defence. Too bad the designers had to make the defence growth inferior. >.<



Posted Image

IIRC, I had Merc!MU take the southern bridge, and then killed Ogma with 1 or 2 hits with MU + Merric chip. Caeda and Athena combined for a kill on the cav. Ryan pulled archer (and was not doubled) and Cecille helped to finish the archer off. Turn 1 is a little vague, though.

It looks like Merc!MU needs somewhere between 9-11 DEF to pull this off, since he looks to be damn near dead. I'll have to check (I'm re-doing prologue with Merc!MU as I write this up for more screenies and more accurate strats/reqs).

Also, remember that MU has 7 DEF base w/ Clergy's, so 9-11 DEF isn't too hard with a little rigging/luck; he'll have around 9 DEF on average and that means you'll only have to rig a DEF level or 2 realistically.


EDIT: As a random side note, after trying out past prologue on this Merc!MU, I noticed I was actually able to 6-turn C1, so the benefits of this strat spill over into the main chapters. With Clergy's Child and a little luck on DEF levels, MU was barely reaching 3HKO'd status by the 27 ATK brigands as a cav (and they only had a sub-70% hit rate on him), which made it possible for Marth to bee-line and hit the village by turn 2.

Edited by Kngt_Of_Titania, 30 December 2011 - 10:36 AM.


#9 Jack Frost

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 02:42 PM

Yeah it's pretty easy to LTC chapters when you rig the level ups and the crits to get the results you want. That's basically what I learned from this thread.

EDIT: As a random side note, after trying out past prologue on this Merc!MU, I noticed I was actually able to 6-turn C1, so the benefits of this strat spill over into the main chapters.


No shit sherlock.

Edited by Gafgarion, 30 December 2011 - 02:46 PM.


#10 Kngt_Of_Titania

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 03:45 PM

Yeah it's pretty easy to LTC chapters when you rig the level ups and the crits to get the results you want. That's basically what I learned from this thread.


First, there's only one crit involved in all 8 chapters and I listed two separate strats with and without it. And it's not about "easy", it's about "physically possible".

Second, C1 6 turn could probably be done with a more average Merc!MU if I had rainbow pot (which I don't, because the rainbow pot save file acted up on me for some reason). Merc!MU gives a higher SPD MU who can wield steel swords and comes equipped with +2 DEF, allowing him to dodge the brigands more readily and make it possible to be 3HKO'd by them and ORKO in kind, which would be far more difficult to do with Fighter!MU or Armor!MU.

Edited by Kngt_Of_Titania, 30 December 2011 - 03:51 PM.





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