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Haradi Jews vs. Israel


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#21 Kngt_Of_Titania

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 10:30 PM

Random Tolerance Stuff


The problem is that the Haradis in this instance are the ones not being tolerant -- I mean, spitting on a woman for dressing slightly differently than they would like or segregating buses because they're taking advantage of the situation. I could make this point akin (although this example is a bit extreme compared to the Haradis, but I have no better examples atm) to saying that you should have been tolerant to the views of the KKK in the early- to mid-1900s because they are entitled to their own view of life and condemning them is wrong, despite the fact that allowing them to exist ultimately leads to more intolerance. Making informed and fair judgments about a group of people based on their actions and beliefs is not wrong -- you can't paint all such judgments with such a broad brush and call it intolerence, because sometimes it's just a simple combination of logic and personal morality.

I think, reading this article, that it's obvious that Israel feels great pressure to stay unified under the threat of common extinction by the hands of Iran, and the more radical sects to impose their vision of what Israel should be. It's the same old song and dance that's been done for...well, forever, like when a country goes under martial law in times of crises. You could point to hundreds of books and movies that address this same issue: Fear drives many people to compromise their own beliefs in favor of what they think will ensure their survival, and while they may personally be against the series of events, they dare not speak out against it. And once the sects get in charge, they also get the power of authority on their side. I bet the government backs them simply because they think they'll anger their constituents if they don't or will look like they don't support the Torah or something akin to that. It's a bit of a vicious self-sustaining cycle.

I hardly believe that most Isrealis agree with segregation and spitting on 8-year-olds, but Cocaine hinted at their viewpoint -- they feel like they can't overthrow the current religious regime because a civil war (or hell, even a civil conflict) will be the sign of weakness that ultimately leads to the end of the Jewish state. And if you think I'm wrong, look at that first article...how many anonymous quotes are in there, despite the fact that what they said is hardly controversial?

Realistically, it may be entirely possible that the Islamic states that want Israel to disappear off the map could win without even declaring direct war with the country. The threat of destruction may cause the state to rot and crumble from within if the Isrealis aren't careful -- and no military support from countries like America can prevent that from happening; only the Isreali people themselves can.

Of course, maybe I'm just blowing this out of propotion. It's hard to make a truly informed decision without actually being there.

Edited by Kngt_Of_Titania, 30 December 2011 - 10:32 PM.


#22 blllack&goldmedalmamba

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 10:41 PM

i'm glad you read my post with the same care that you quoted it with because you obviously missed the part where i wrote about communicating and understanding with non hateful words and non violence. gg serious discussion being belittled

#23 Rehab

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 10:46 PM

Come again? I thought it was a good post, the similarity of my opinion not notwithstanding <:

#24 Tricky Dick

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 12:16 AM

i'm glad you read my post with the same care that you quoted it with because you obviously missed the part where i wrote about communicating and understanding with non hateful words and non violence. gg serious discussion being belittled

Actually blackie, KoT's also right (you are too). Lemme explain why.

First off, for the case in Beit Shemesh with Na'ama, about 20 or so Haradi men took the time to walk up to her and spit on her while she was doing something innocent like walking to school. They went out of their way just to belittle a little girl simply because she wasn't dressed to their standards. If there's a circle of violence happening, it's starting from their side, not anyone else's. It's not that they're misunderstood, they're purposely treating other women like shit because those women are in their eyesight.

However, you're right about a circle of violence and the fact that the hate is two ways. There's the demonstrations, the clashes and that one incident at a Burger Ranch where a cashier publicly insulted 3 Haradi kids. He got fired for it, of course. Happened earlier this week and I think it was also in Beit Shemesh.

But don't try to claim that this is a case of the two sides misunderstanding each other and hating them for it. Both sides know where the other is coming from.


As for why Haradim get funding... I wish I could answer that. I don't think they deserve it either but I don't know why they get it.

#25 Aere

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 06:55 PM

Radicals of any means (Politics, religion, etc.) will ALWAYS receive attention. Something different cannot be left alone by the populace. It must be protected or harmed or affected in some way, because that's just human nature. If one is seeking for attention, he doesn't act as his peers do; he does something different.

The Haradim won't be destroyed (obviously), and all the fuss about religion all over the world just garners even more attention. If somebody intervened, they couldn't alter the religion either, because that defeats the purpose of the religion. That leaves helping the Haradim as the most obvious option. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, but that's how the world works.

#26 Anouleth

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 10:44 AM

Angry crowds also followed uniformed police, shouting at them and calling them “Nazis.”

“It’s like how it started with the Nazis – very slowly,” American yeshiva student Salomon Hoberman said, defending the use of the yellow stars.

lolololol

“What’s happening is exactly like what happened in Germany,” said one man wearing a yellow star, who gave his name only as Moishe. “It started with incitement and continued to different types of oppression. Is it insulting that we wear these stars? Absolutely, and it hurts people to see this, but this is how we feel at the moment, we feel we are being prevented from observing the Torah in the manner in which we wish.”

no dipshit it's insulting because you're drawing a false equivalency between genocide and being forbidden to spit on girls in public

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