157 replies to this topic

[General Horace]

He made a separate topic about general FE12 drafting and Mal and rescue and hammerne and etc, it wasn't a draft itself (unless i'm stupid and missed something)

It's quite clear that anybody competant with Hammerne!Rescue Mal has a clear advantage over the rest of the cast. Otherwise, she's a mediocre pick at best, she costs two turns and Hammerne costs 4, and she enables 6 extra uses of again, so she's just an earlyjoining staffbot otherwise, which is pretty unimpressive.

[Vicious Sal]

He made a separate topic about general FE12 drafting and Mal and rescue and hammerne and etc, it wasn't a draft itself (unless i'm stupid and missed something)

It's quite clear that anybody competant with Hammerne!Rescue Mal has a clear advantage over the rest of the cast. Otherwise, she's a mediocre pick at best, she costs two turns and Hammerne costs 4, and she enables 6 extra uses of again, so she's just an earlyjoining staffbot otherwise, which is pretty unimpressive.

Exactly, and I made the topic because everyone wanted it all discussed and sorted out, and when I took the time, nobody discussed it there, and went back to the topics. Sorry for the rant, but it kinda pissed me off.

[Refa]

He made a separate topic about general FE12 drafting and Mal and rescue and hammerne and etc, it wasn't a draft itself (unless i'm stupid and missed something)

It's quite clear that anybody competant with Hammerne!Rescue Mal has a clear advantage over the rest of the cast. Otherwise, she's a mediocre pick at best, she costs two turns and Hammerne costs 4, and she enables 6 extra uses of again, so she's just an earlyjoining staffbot otherwise, which is pretty unimpressive.

There are several units like that who aren't banned. What about Lana? Rescue Leaf? Karin? Tethys (there's a reason she's free in most drafts)? Florina?

Edited by Refa, 25 February 2012 - 10:29 PM.

[General Horace]

There are several units like that who aren't banned. What about Lana? Rescue Leaf? Karin? Tethys (there's a reason she's free in most drafts)? Florina?

Claude!Lana should never exist, and she saves like, one turn in chapter 8, Shin beat me when I had rescue Leaf with Corple as his rescuer, there aren't enough FE5 drafts, but yeah Karin is OP, dancers should always be free, and Florina is really only OP when Lyn Mode exists, which should theoretically be never. This is different as FE12's only real elements are running Marth to the throne, since there are very few mechanics in this game. having 12 more charges of rescue is at minimum 6 turns that the other players have literally no chance to make up.

[Refa]

Then maybe future FE12 drafts should make Malliesia free, or ban Hammerine on Rescue.

I don't really want that to happen now though, because it would devalue my 1st pick. Sure you COULD just let me take someone else's first pick, but that'd basically require everyone to redraft from the 1st pick and drafting is taking way too damn long as it is.

Also, again, don't see any other FE12 drafts were Hammerine is banned, don't see what's the big deal about letting me have it for now. It's not like this is something that this draft has overlooked, FE12 drafts, to my limited knowledge, have always been like this.

Edited by Refa, 25 February 2012 - 11:17 PM.

[Peekayell]

There is one FE12 draft that wen hosted that banned it. Also, what part of malliesia + hammerne/rescue breaks the balance of the draft, do you not understand? This is a 4 man FE12 draft, normally they are 6-7 player drafts. We get more units than normal, making up for the malliesia first pick...You dont need more than 3 earlygame units to beat the game in the same amount of turns as the rest of us. But if you have hammerne on rescue allowed, marth and I will lose by 6+ turns no matter how brilliant we play. If you dont see anything wrong with that then, wow...also, when is marth gonna pick? >.>

[Refa]

There is one FE12 draft that wen hosted that banned it. Also, what part of malliesia + hammerne/rescue breaks the balance of the draft, do you not understand? This is a 4 man FE12 draft, normally they are 6-7 player drafts. We get more units than normal, making up for the malliesia first pick...You dont need more than 3 earlygame units to beat the game in the same amount of turns as the rest of us. But if you have hammerne on rescue allowed, marth and I will lose by 6+ turns no matter how brilliant we play. If you dont see anything wrong with that then, wow...also, when is marth gonna pick? >.>

Then maybe you should've picked Malliesia. I'm saying that there are other game breaking characters who go totally unpunished, and if you want to change the rules next time, fine by me, but I don't want to see my pick devalued this time just because you're sore about losing out on turns. This isn't SFDTT.

Just like if someone manages to get Levin/Tiltyu they deserve to get Holsety Arthur, I feel like I deserve to get Hammerine Malliesia (it's not like I was first pick and everyone else just got fucked because of it; everyone else chose NOT to pick her for whatever reason). It's unfair of you to change the rules after the drafting has already begun if not everyone is in agreement about the changes.

And ignorance is not an acceptable response to not picking Malliesia, BTW.

Edited by Refa, 26 February 2012 - 06:19 AM.

[Peekayell]

Well, i for one didnt pick her first because i thought hammerne was banned from being used on rescue as of late...but i was wrong. Why should we appeal to only one person as opposed to everyone? I play drafts for fun, and im sorry i cant have fun if i know that whatever i do, i will lose the draft. Its just...dumb. If i had malliesia, i would still vouch for a rule change, mind you. Im not selfish. Also, you only really need palla to low turn an H1 draft. Stop being so butthurt because your first pick was "devalued" when you have freaking palla of all people.

[Refa]

Well, i for one didnt pick her first because i thought hammerne was banned from being used on rescue as of late...but i was wrong. Why should we appeal to only one person as opposed to everyone? I play drafts for fun, and im sorry i cant have fun if i know that whatever i do, i will lose the draft. Its just...dumb. If i had malliesia, i would still vouch for a rule change, mind you. Im not selfish. Also, you only really need palla to low turn an H1 draft. Stop being so butthurt because your first pick was "devalued" when you have freaking palla of all people.

Fine, I'll go for the rule change. Just kinda upset I can't get something brokenly awesome for once.

I still don't see how this is any worse than say, Holsety!Arthur, but hey, if it upsets the other draftees that much, then I can go without it. Although Hammerine is now...useless. Great.

EDIT And my first pick was devalued. I would've picked Catria instead, so I'd have 2 Pegasus Knights. You can't honestly just say "Pffft, you have ONE overpowered unit, therefore all of your other picks can go die in a fire". Just the same way that you can't have fun when you know for sure that you can't win, I don't find it fun when I get screwed out of a unit thanks to everyone else conveniently forgetting how broken that is until I get it, and then the complaining ensues to have it banned.

Malliesia has no place on my team now. Rescue? Yumina does it. Nosferatu? Yumina does it? Hammerine? Costs turns and so does Malliesia. So now I'm the only one that loses out...

Edited by Refa, 26 February 2012 - 06:55 AM.

[Peekayell]

Ok cool. Its not useless though. You get more again staff uses, which i think breaks even. +2 from getting malliesia, + 4 from hammerne. 2 agains save 2 turns so ur at -4. repair. 2 more agains. -2. repair and 2 more agains means +1, not to mention the remaining 3. Heh, she makes up for it with +1 again over everyone else. But that is more balanced than 4+4+4+5 rescues...which means like 12 turns over the others...shrug. Also, correct me if im wrong, but isnt levin! artur beaten all the time by the broken 3 players of FE4? (horace, integ and shin)

[Refa]

Only one of my next two posts contains any meaningful substance. It's up to you, the reader, to guess which one.

Edited by Refa, 26 February 2012 - 06:59 AM.

[Refa]

Ok cool. Its not useless though. You get more again staff uses, which i think breaks even. +2 from getting malliesia, + 4 from hammerne. 2 agains save 2 turns so ur at -4. repair. 2 more agains. -2. repair and 2 more agains means +1, not to mention the remaining 3. Heh, she makes up for it with +1 again over everyone else. But that is more balanced than 4+4+4+5 rescues...which means like 12 turns over the others...shrug. Also, correct me if im wrong, but isnt levin! artur beaten all the time by the broken 3 players of FE4? (horace, integ and shin)

Hmmm, fair enough. Please don't make this mistake again and ban this on the standard rules though.

Integ got Levin! Arthur several times, and he even petitioned for it to be banned. So yeah.

Anyways, I'm sure the Elite of FE12 could kick my ass Hammerine Malliesia or not, lol.

Also, I apologize if I seemed like mad at anyone in particular. I'm just upset at the situation here, not because any of my fellow draftees are assholes or something.

[Peekayell]

Its ok. And i didnt know that levin! artur is suspect for banning. Thats how much i know of FE4, lulz

[Refa]

So now that that big issue is out of the way, we can...go back to waiting for Marth.

Arguing > Waiting, lol.

Edited by Refa, 26 February 2012 - 07:06 AM.

[Peekayell]

I just realized i suck at math. You break even. +2 from malliesia, +4 from hammerine = 6. -2 from agains = +4. Repair. +2 more agains = +2. Repair. +2 more agains = break even. Repair. And the normal 3 agains. You might have more again uses then everybody in endgame though which could lead to a 1 turn of medeus.

[Refa]

You can 1 turn the final boss? What is this madness you speak of?

[Peekayell]

Yeah. Rescue on the sisters. Then a marth crit or have enough firepower to KO him with your units.

[Peekayell]

I meant rescue with the sisters* and of course some again uses.

Edited by PKL, 26 February 2012 - 07:19 AM.

[Peekayell]

How long til marth gets RNG'd? Seriously, its been much longer than a day...

[Stark]

Okay, since it seems we have come to an agreement, hammerne will be unable to be used on the rescue staff. If everyone still wants warp unbanned, I will do that, under the conditions that Marth cannot be warped, and warped units cannot use rescue. (PKL's suggestion)

As for Marth, I feel that RNGing some one else's picks is kind of a douche move, especially since we are still fairly early in the draft. However, I think it would be fair, and compensate Refa somewhat for the rule change to allow him to make one of his next two picks now while we are waiting.