108 replies to this topic

[Colonel M]

whase: Super Trainee

Oh hell no to 5 Mov and 6 Con again!

We want to get her out of her rut, NOT CONTINUE THE RUT!

Edited by Colonel M, 10 May 2012 - 10:01 AM.

[Anouleth]

Super Recruit would be viable if it kept the super fast exp gain. Rush to level 10/10 and activate Paladin Mode.

[Might Gaine]

Why are Amelia and Wendy getting so much hate? I mean, I'll admit that it was kinda tough getting Wendy started, but once she did, she became a killing machine! I played through FE6 twice - first time, Roy sucked, Wendy was awesome. Second time, Roy maxed out EVERYTHING, Wendy was average, and Bors was the killing machine.

And as for Amelia, well... in MY experiences, at least, every living (and almost every unliving) thing in Magvel craps itself terror before the Goddess of Destruction that is General Amelia, with the only units capable of equaling her awesome are Super Recruit Amelia and Berserker Ross.

Also, I myself don't like mounted units very much, largely because there are so darn many of 'em - Paladins in particular, and I usually make Franze and Kyle Great Knights when I use them. As an explanation for this apparently atypical behavior, I prefer power over mobility. To me, spamming hit-and-run tactics and rescues are not as fun as watching my unwitting enemies walk right into certain death.

[Baldrick]

In the community, most people consider efficiency a key factor in judging a unit's worth. Any units that gets off to a bad start (like Wendy and Amelia) is expected to pay it back with a notably superior performance at the end of the game. However, enemies tend to grow slower than allies; so by the time a unit with low base stats but high growths overtakes the units with higher bases but lower growths, enemies typically do not pose enough of a challenge for the extra power to be worth the effort at the start.

This is exacerbated in Wendy and Amelia's case, because their growths are actually not much better than the competition, and so they will probably not gain an advantage at all. Amelia has it easier, because the world map makes training simple and the post-game makes the end result more relevant.

Move is also highly valued. A common extra challenge is to complete the game in the fewest turns possible - LTC. Mounted units can carry the lords quickly across the field, and reach enemies quicker. When a mounted unit is sufficiently strong (Seth being a prime example), they can charge into a group of enemies and kill them all before slower-moving units get there. So when playing for LTC, it's often impossible for slower-moving units (and archers, who can't counterattack) to get the experience necessary to remain or become strong.

Most people here are tolerant of other people's playstyles. But a good way to start a flame war and become infamous is to go around telling others that they're wrong for not liking units with low bases and high growths (known around here as Est archetypes).

[Ranger Jack Walker]

Now I don't care about efficiency but I recognize why both are so hated.

But atleast you can easily train Amelia if you don't care about turns. Wendy, not so much.

[Might Gaine]

In the community, most people consider efficiency a key factor in judging a unit's worth. Any units that gets off to a bad start (like Wendy and Amelia) is expected to pay it back with a notably superior performance at the end of the game. However, enemies tend to grow slower than allies; so by the time a unit with low base stats but high growths overtakes the units with higher bases but lower growths, enemies typically do not pose enough of a challenge for the extra power to be worth the effort at the start.

This is exacerbated in Wendy and Amelia's case, because their growths are actually not much better than the competition, and so they will probably not gain an advantage at all. Amelia has it easier, because the world map makes training simple and the post-game makes the end result more relevant.

Move is also highly valued. A common extra challenge is to complete the game in the fewest turns possible - LTC. Mounted units can carry the lords quickly across the field, and reach enemies quicker. When a mounted unit is sufficiently strong (Seth being a prime example), they can charge into a group of enemies and kill them all before slower-moving units get there. So when playing for LTC, it's often impossible for slower-moving units (and archers, who can't counterattack) to get the experience necessary to remain or become strong.

Most people here are tolerant of other people's playstyles. But a good way to start a flame war and become infamous is to go around telling others that they're wrong for not liking units with low bases and high growths (known around here as Est archetypes).

I did not at all mean to say that anyone was WRONG for not liking Ests, I just didn't understand why they had such a bad rep when I've had them consistently as (sometimes VERY) good units. Starting fights is the LAST thing I want to do.

[Levant Fortner]

I did not at all mean to say that anyone was WRONG for not liking Ests, I just didn't understand why they had such a bad rep when I've had them consistently as (sometimes VERY) good units. Starting fights is the LAST thing I want to do.

I undestand. Though what it comes down to is that they require a ton of effort just to fail to compare to others in their class (and Wendy has it especially bad, seeing as she has the combination of poor jointime, underleveledness, and awful bases as strikes against her, and it doesn't help that FE6 maps are pretty huge in general).

[Might Gaine]

I undestand. Though what it comes down to is that they require a ton of effort just to fail to compare to others in their class (and Wendy has it especially bad, seeing as she has the combination of poor jointime, underleveledness, and awful bases as strikes against her, and it doesn't help that FE6 maps are pretty huge in general).

Again, I'm more than willing to concede that training Wendy is a bit of a chore, but to ME personally it usually pays off in terms of killing power. I once gave her the Boots. Elibe broke in half. But then again, on the next playthrough, she was only average and Bors absorbed all her awesome from the playthrough before. So of course HE got the Boots on that playthrough.

The only units I can recall where training them really was not worth it were Rennac and Sophia - and Sophia because while she ended up a certified mage killer... and everything else became a certified Sophia killer due to her EXCEPTIONALLY craptastic Speed and Defense.

... Wow. When I first saw this thread, I was expecting a debate of which is the more awesome killing machine. Totally went the other way, but I guess that's life. Still, I think I have some more insight into the community than I did before, and I think the community has a little more insight into me, and (I hope) nobody got mad. Win-win!

Edited by Might Gaine, 03 October 2012 - 08:00 AM.

[Trivialgent]

Hey, I find both of them awesome!
Wendy has low con, but damn, is she the best Stone Wall ever
And Amelia as a General is basically the same thing, only with more HP and resistance!

So yeah, they're pretty good units.
Plus, Barth and Douglas aren't good substitutes for the former IMO, and Amelia can get better speed than Gilliam or any of the Cavaliers or Seth.

[Elieson]

Hey bub, Amelia ties 20 Seth's speed at 10/20/4 as a paladin/GK, and 10/20/7 General.

That's a looooot of effort and extra leveling for what is widely regarded as unnecessarily high speed.

Her CON will only ever equal Seth's as a General, meaning that even though her speed is slightly higher at extremely high levels, her using heavier an more powerful weaponry will cause her [Attack] Speed to suffer moreso than Seth would.

Res: Amelia as a general at 10/20/20 TIES Seth at 20. Nevermind this I misunderstood the statement.

Edited by Elieson, 14 March 2013 - 02:07 PM.

[Trivialgent]

Sooooo, what's Amelia's best class? Great Knight, General, or Paladin?

[Narga_Rocks]

Kindergarten. Only place where she can win fights on her own.

[Trivialgent]

Kindergarten. Only place where she can win fights on her own.

1: I'm serious.
2: Hey, no Est is a bad unit!

[PresidentEden]

Kindergarten. Only place where she can win fights on her own.

[Trivialgent]

My Amelia always gets max speed, skill and strength as a General. Explain that.

[PresidentEden]

PEMN


If you're actually trying to use her in the game and be efficient, you're gonna have a bad time, but you'll have a worse time if the weakest unit on your roster can't keep up with the average unit. Cavalier is basically forced, so General is out as a final promotion. From there her next promotion is probably going to be dependent on individual circumstances, but my thought is that by the time she promotes she'll hopefully be able to hold her own and can take the extra move from being a Paladin. Either one would serve you fine, though.

If you're not trying to be efficient, i.e. Towering, my thought is General for the promotion gains. Creature Campaign = General.

[Trivialgent]

Thanks, but I don't play rank, and I use Valni to level up Amelia and Ewan-

PEMN

...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!

I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE YOU!!

[Elieson]

That's a good explanation though. Yes she does et lots of Shiny numbers but it's just a lot of extra work (especially in hard mode) for a unit that simply isn't tht much better compared to the rest of your team.

If you're focusin on Postgame tower/ruins, General would be a strong option, though Paladin will be just fine regardless of the teeny bit less defense.

[PresidentEden]

If you're playing the post-game, the only three things that matter are stat caps, unique class skills/traits and weapon availability. General wins on all three fronts. But it's not really an impacting difference because any max-stat unit, irrespective of class, should destroy the post-game.

@Trivialgent

Edited by PresidentEden, 14 March 2013 - 02:35 PM.

[Baldrick]

Every time I used Amelia, her base stats were awful. But I suppose PEMN.

If you're not trying to be efficient, i.e. Towering, my thought is General for the promotion gains.

YES.