414 replies to this topic

[Aquaman]

...And we're analyzing electric types' performance on Rock/Grounds WHY?? In case you didn't get the memo, you don't want to leave Geodudes and Gravelers alive for even a turn if you can help it, unless you like them blowing up in your face.

Indeed.

Which is why I carry a handy dandy SQUIRTLE!

[Ranger Jack Walker]

I was talking about PKL saying Zapdos OHKOing all your Pokemon amaking it difficult to catch. If exploit its obvious weakpoints, catching Zapdos without the Masterball is pitifully easy even if there is a 15 or so level gap.

Edited by Ranger Jack Walker, 29 February 2012 - 10:07 AM.

[Merry Sioux]

By the time Zapdos is even available all the rock/ground types have gone away until Victory Road and Giovanni's gym

Still. Coming early, and it is NORMAL/flying-so it gets Normal stab.

Normal stab? Let's not get carried away here, its not like it hits anything for super effective damage.

Besides Pidgey only has access to low powered normal-type attacks, coming off a mediocre attack stat.

So tackle becomes a 60 BP move early on, not bad, and as soon as it gets gust it can do well early on.

35 x 1.5 = 52.5

I can see it dropping one or 2 spaces, but not much more.

It's lower mid at best

-Middling stats
-Sparse movepool and poor coverage
-Late Evolutions

You think this is upper mid material?

[Aquaman]

Ok

Pidgeys going in Mid.
Not much else, its still hell of a lot better than Zubat ingame pre 7 isles

[kirsche]

Squirtle > Bulbasaur still hasn't been changed into the opening post. But it should stay in top tier, status afflictions, Razor leaf at 20 and such great type match ups make it still so much more viable than charmander.

Staryu up to just below nidoran F, you get them after the poke flute and they literally roflstomp the entire game harder than both of the nidos. This guy can solo the elite four without many woes and does great vs blaine, koga and giovanni, and neutral against sabrina. Ok, they don't do so well again eirika, but that's forgiveable when you can bench everyone else for this guy to crush games. I would dare so place them both above charmander too, but I can let that slide.

Bellsprout should not be at the top of high.

Zapdos > Magnemite. Same availability, but one comes in at level 50 and deals crazy damage because of it. Hint: That isn't magnemite. Even if its just thundershock for a little while, drill peck is nice and the level lead isn't something to be scoffed at.

[Aquaman]

Ok, makes sense, anyone else have any more input?

[Ranger Jack Walker]

Bulbasaur should be above Nidoran. Status moves like crazy(Poison Powder, Sleep Powder AND Leech Seed? Thats awesome.) Razor leaf has good power as well as increased critical. Even if it up against a Pokemon who has a type advantage against it, it can just Sleep \and seed it while laughing. Niroan has good coverage and stats and poison point but Bulbasuar has more usability.

[Aquaman]

Nidoran(M) has better performance wholegame.
Bulbasaur is good, but has some problems. And we're not putting all 3 powders on it, are we?

[Ranger Jack Walker]

Not all 3 but Sleep Powder is definitely a keeper and Leech Seed is good till mid game.

[kirsche]

Nidoran(M) has better performance wholegame.
Bulbasaur is good, but has some problems. And we're not putting all 3 powders on it, are we?

I would diagree with nidoran having a better performance the whole game. Not there for brock, worse against misty and bulb has no problems vs lt surge in teh first place. After eirika, which nidoran is hardly amazing against either, you get staryu who crushes both of them. Then in comes zapdos etc etc. Both are amazing pokemon, but bulbasaur is better earlygame, and that's where it matters more.

[Aquaman]

I would diagree with nidoran having a better performance the whole game. Not there for brock, worse against misty and bulb has no problems vs lt surge in teh first place. After eirika, which nidoran is hardly amazing against either, you get staryu who crushes both of them. Then in comes zapdos etc etc. Both are amazing pokemon, but bulbasaur is better earlygame, and that's where it matters more.

Vine WHip has 10 pp until Razor Leaf.

Nidoran is neutral to Misty, because Nidorina(o) is just poison.

[kirsche]

I was assuming nidoking/queen for mega punch. Either way, they aren't dealing super effective damage. And 10pp is enough to dispatch brock and misty, who are the main problems.

Edited by kirsche, 29 February 2012 - 11:56 AM.

[Sho.M.the.Fallen]

Everyone else wants mega punch and you get Trash/Body Slam soon anyway so why?

Also its not very practical but you can have Nidorina have Bite by misty for Starmie and lollilstaryuthingy I cant pronounciate. (Evolve lv 20)

Edited by Sho.M.the.Pinkie.Pie, 29 February 2012 - 12:04 PM.

[kirsche]

We won't have thrash/body slam for misty, probably.

[Sho.M.the.Fallen]

We won't have thrash/body slam for misty, probably.

Oh I didn't suggest we have them at that point, I just said giving them Mega Punch is "waste" of good move.

[kirsche]

Well I'm just trying to give them extra resources so a comparison is more favoured to them.

[dondon151]

Squirtle > Bulbasaur still hasn't been changed into the opening post. But it should stay in top tier, status afflictions, Razor leaf at 20 and such great type match ups make it still so much more viable than charmander.

Bulbasaur should be above Nidoran. Status moves like crazy(Poison Powder, Sleep Powder AND Leech Seed? Thats awesome.)

Who actually uses status conditions when it's easy to plow through the game without having to rely on something that takes much more time? Why would you describe Bulbasaur as having "great type matchups" when half of Team Rocket resists Razor Leaf?

Oh wait, let me guess - you're one of those guys that trains a team of 6 Pokemon and wonders why you're having such a hard time, so you have to rely on status moves as a crutch.

I would diagree with nidoran having a better performance the whole game. Not there for brock, worse against misty and bulb has no problems vs lt surge in teh first place. After eirika, which nidoran is hardly amazing against either, you get staryu who crushes both of them.

Staryu doesn't "crush" Nidoran M. They want some of the same TMs, but Nidoran M is not that much worse on the special attacking side anyway, and he's much more solid before then with a strong physical attack in the form of Thrash. Staryu is faster, but Nidoran M is fast enough to outspeed most of the same enemies anyway given a level advantage.

We won't have thrash/body slam for misty, probably.

That's fine; Horn Attack is plenty strong anyway.

Edited by dondon151, 29 February 2012 - 04:47 PM.

[Aquaman]

I'm thinking that Geodude and Diglett should switch places.

-Geodude has shit sp def and low speed.
-Despite high def, is weak to ground/fighting moves which are plentifull in some areas
-Is almost useless vs e4
-Geodudes one good use is beating Surge, and Diglett does it with massive speed and ground stab. And we can get a lvl 28-29 Dugtrio in the same cave.
-Mega Punch is highly contested by Squirtle/Nidos/Mankey/Charmander/Pikachu/Clefairy(and jigglypuff if you want to count it)

Diglett has

-natural EQ, and comes with Dig/Magnitude.
-Fast as Greased Lightning
-Takes care of Grass types with AA
-Rock SLide/Tomb for Flyers/Ices
-Tri Attack hits plenty of things neutrally and has a nice side effect
-We can get it at lvl 28-29 in the diglett cave en route to getting flash
-Rock Slides Loreleis Jynx, AA Brunos Hitmons, Rock SLide Agathas Golbat & EQ her Arbok.
-and stab EQ hurts Gary motherfucking Oaks nonfliers/grasses.
-Rock slide dents lances mons.
-Its like a Physical Electrode with BETTER movepool, stab and comes earlier.

Ok, lets see what they do ingame

vs Rival [1st battle in cer.}
Unless it has rock throw, its not that good

vs Misty-
fail

vs Surge
Ok, but Diglett/Duggie wins due to speed and hitting first and hard.
Geodude has to deal with double team set-up.

VS Erika
Both kinda fail, but Diglett/Trio is better due to no 4x weakness and secret power hitting first.
TM for secret power is in Celedon Mall

VS Giovanni [1st]
Stab Dig/Magnitude rapes his grounds, but Geodude can take Kangaskhans Mega Punch one or two more times.

VS Rival in ss anne
Geodude is slow compared to this, and this guy packs a Kadabra. If your starter was Bulbasaur, you do better.
Still, Geodude is stopped by Kadabra and Squirtle/Bulbasaur
Diglett/trio is only hindered by Squirtle/Bulbasaur

VS Rival in Ghost Tower
See above, but if Rival has Eggcecute, both mons stop in tracks.
Gyrados is handled by Rock Slide/Throw/TOmb

VS Rival in Silph CO
Geodude is slow as fuck and the only thing it can fight here is Growlithe/Pidgeot.
Dugtrio can outrun and deal with all but Squirtle/Bulbasaur/Eggxecute, and if it has AA, it can deal with the grass one.

VS Giovanni [2nd battle]
Geodude is good here, due to Giovanni using rock/ground and poison/grounds. And can take Kanga's hits.
Dugtrio still performs well, and could have EQ by now.

VS Sabrina
Outspeeding low def psychics and hitting with AA/EQ is what Dugtrio does to her
Geodude can deal with Venomoth, but the other 3 shit over it

VS Koga
Kinda more or less even, but Geodude has more HP and better defense

VS Blaine-
Even with 4x Res to fire, Geodude is outrun here, and stab fire blasts hurt its crap sp def.
Dugtrio outruns and EQs

VS Giovanni [gym]

Geodudes weak to EQ, nuff said.
Its slow, and will get asswhooped.
Dugtrio is doing more, due to earlier EQ than Geodude, and outrunning everything.

VS Rival [pre-road battle]
Geodude gets raped by ll but Rhyhorn/Growlith/Pidgeot
Dugtrio is fast enough to take Alakazam, Charizard, Pidgeot, Growlithe and Rhyhorn, as well as making a huge dent on the Grasses/Gyrados.

Ok

Wins-Diglett

e4

Lorelei-
Geodude wants no part of this

Bruno-
Geodude can deal with the onix, but so can almost anything.
Dugtrio, doesn't sport that fighting weakness.
And can AA/EQ the low def hitmons and 2-3HKOs Machamp

Agatha-
Geodude can deal with Arbok and Golbat by EQ/Rock Slide/Tomb/blast
Dugtrio deals the same way and Rock Slides Haunter and could outrun the Gengars!

Lance-
Fast mons, all flying, and pack EQ or a powerful SP att base move
Dugtrio outruns them and does damage, Geodude gets IBeamed, EQd, Hydro Pump'd, DClawed and Outraged.

VS Champion
Pidgeot-both are even
Arcanine-Dugtrio does better due to being faster. Geodude is slow as fuck, low sp def, and cannot survive 2 hits
Gyrados-Rain Danced Hydro pump or DDd EQ. equal, because on set-up, GDUDE can blow up. Duggie Rock Slides
Alakazam-Duggie does better. EQ and having better speed
Charizard-Duggie does better, unless a lvl 48-51 GDude can take a Fire Blast.
Venasaur-Both suck, but Duggie does more damage.
Walking coconut tree-Duggie again, because Geodude doesn't want to be hit by solarbeam or psychic.
Blastoise-both fail, but Gdude can explode!
Rhydon-Duggie wins due to fast EQ

So, I believe that Duggie>Geodude

[Levant Fortner]

VS Blaine-
Even with 4x Res to fire, Geodude is outrun here, and stab fire blasts hurt its crap sp def.
Dugtrio outruns and EQs

Not contesting, but Geodude doesn't quad resist fire.

[Aquaman]

Ground resists fire
Rock resists.fire
And I remember Geodude having 4x resist to fire.
Unless I've mistaken.

Also, staryu drop to come, switching with Lapras IMO.
Competition for TMs, and the fact that while we get vs seeker early, and shit.

We probobly will only have enough to buy one or two when we get Staryu.
Squirtle would love IB.
Any electric type not pikachu/lapras/nidos/Gastly/clefairy likes TB.

Psychic has Slowpoke/Coconut tree thing/clefairy/gastly comptetition.

So, even though it rapes, it needs a shitto of TMs. Bottom of top/top of next tier.