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Rate the Unit, Day 31: Knoll


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#1 Integrity

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 06:23 AM

Dat Rules
- Ratings are assumed to be on Difficult Mode.
- Votes need some explanation regarding their gameplay performance to be counted (unless they fall into the general parameters of the average rating, but reasoning is still strongly encouraged on those even if you just wanna quote people) — incredibly low scores or high scores without proper justification will not be counted. Don't put in some random text thinking it'd count as justification. Put in at least a little thought and give REAL reasoning.
- Numbers for votes, please - not something like "Marcus/10", etc. Proper justification will be determined by me and whoever decides to help, whether it be Integrity and Integrity again or sometegrity else.
+/- ≤1 point extra regarding personality/appearance is okay, but no more.
- Votes out of 10, or something proportional to it. Makes it easy to calculate, please and thank you~!
- Every ranking phase ends whenever I get out of bed, between 0700 and 0800 EST. Do the math for your timezone, Brits.
- I will insist you do not use the "Not X" reason on any character, where X is another unit. If you do, your vote will be thrown out.
- Ratings for characters should always assume the gameplay route YOU judge them best on. If I see "doesn't exist on ephraim" ANYWHERE in your rating for Innes I will be very cross and will probably throw out your vote out of spite.

Average Ratings
Amelia: 1.65
Ewan: 1.74
Marisa: 2.05
Neimi: 2.24
Gilliam: 3.27
Rennac: 4.09
Dozla: 4.28
L'Arachel: 4.31
Ross: 4.33
Lute: 4.80
Joshua: 6.02
Innes: 6.20
Natasha: 6.27
Colm: 6.32
Garcia: 6.88
Kyle: 6.89
Moulder: 6.89
Artur: 6.92
Forde: 7.04
Tana: 7.33
Eirika: 7.34
Duessel: 7.96
Saleh: 8.04
Ephraim: 8.13
Vanessa: 8.16
Cormag: 8.22
Gerik: 8.29
Tethys: 8.30
Franz: 9.32
Seth: 9.91

1: elie and harpoon and those like you, if you want to change your vote in the future kindly edit your vote posts so I don't have to go back and fix things
2: to see if anybody reads these: any use of knollroll in any context in any vote results in instant disqualification unless you're horace

Edited by Integrity, 01 March 2012 - 10:13 AM.


#2 Lord of the Cactus

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 06:57 AM

Knoll, Knoll, Knoll...

I like you; but why start with 0 LCK, why? WHY?

At least you aren't worthless; you can staffbot and decoy stuff with your phantoms and smack stuff if ever. You'd want the Iron Rune though.

I'll give him...

5.5, his durability kinda hurts... which is sadfais

#3 General Horace

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 07:22 AM

I anticipate a few not counted votes upcoming today

You give me no inscentive to do a :KnollRoll: but I'll do one anyway

anyhow

I like Knoll. He has some good support conversations and such, and is pretty unique as a character. He can instantly promote in chapter 15 with that master seal (I swear IS put that there just for him). His phantoms are great for protecting squishys like Tethys from Purges, Boltings, and Shadowshots, as they are always first priority. I guess he can attack something or heal in a pinch as well, but those aren't his strong points.

His luck sucks, but he shouldn't really be seeing combat, so it's somewhat excusable.

Still phantoms aside, he's pretty bad. Phantoms are what makes him good.

4.5/10, slightly below average.

#4 Sara.

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 07:27 AM

Still phantoms aside, he's pretty bad. Phantoms are what makes him good.


2.5, for summoning for 1/4 of the game

Also, sorry Integ. Do you want me to go change my vote on Duessel still, of was that a "for future reference" kind of note? I changed it anyway.

Edited by Elieson, 01 March 2012 - 08:03 AM.


#5 Captain Britain

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 07:41 AM

6/10

He's merely aright and has the summoning gimmick.
But that's it.

#6 arvilino

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 07:46 AM

He's only really good based on the fact you can insta-promote to Summoner for phantoms. Due to enemy priority seeking they can be rather useful at times and Knoll gets EXP for summoning. His combat and heal staffing are very minor with him being a bit risky in combat without the iron rune and him not being durable enough to take advantage of Nosferatu(though literally nobody except Lyon is in this game).

4.5/10

#7 Rewjeo

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 07:50 AM

Duessel lost to Saleh? Interesting.

You know, I thought Knoll was a pretty underrated character. Looks like people actually think MORE of him than I do. Whatever, I won't complain. I like Knoll.

Sucks at everything other people can do, but (bar Ewan being a summoner... which won't happen often in any playstyle) has this cool unique ability that's pretty awesome, but not necessary. Don't feel like going into detail for now, at least.

3.5/10

#8 OrangeCrush980

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:02 AM

2 defense, 0 luck, and bad growths in both. At least he can promote right away to summoner. Too bad summoners are overrated; phantoms would be cool in harder games or earlier on, but at this point we have juggernauts with javelins/hand axes so why bother with some mediocre phantom?

1/10, but I'll give him an extra .5 for his awesome emoticon.
:KnollRoll: :KnollRoll: :KnollRoll: :KnollRoll: :KnollRoll: :KnollRoll: :KnollRoll: :KnollRoll: :KnollRoll: :KnollRoll:

1.5/10

Edited by Horace, 01 March 2012 - 10:27 AM.


#9 Renall

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:12 AM

He's a staffbot with an interesting gimmick that unfortunately doesn't end up seeing a whole lot of use because it isn't really necessary. Conceptually, though, it can be quite interesting, and every now and then a summon is actually a decent idea. But good Lord do his defenses blow. Still, if you're light on mages you may as well promote him for staff filler or whatever. Beyond that... nothing really worth mentioning, I don't think.

2.5/10. He's slightly more useful than the trash units, but there's a whole lot of units you'd rather use over him. If there were some 25 MAG 25 SPD Bolting sniper on some super hard map, that unique(ish) summon utility might suddenly become a whole lot more impactful. But there really isn't.

I do hope summons make more of a comeback in a game where they'd actually be good. I'm sure we'd all love us a Summoner in FE12 Lunatic. Honestly, were this game really hard Knoll's score would probably jump significantly.

#10 Scarlet

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:49 AM

If there were some 25 MAG 25 SPD Bolting sniper on some super hard map, that unique(ish) summon utility might suddenly become a whole lot more impactful. But there really isn't.

Wait, all those gorgons and archmogalls with shadowshot and (nearly) capped MAG near the end of the game suddenly stopped existing? Boy, do those 40 to 42 Atk shots hurt. They don't double, but shadowshot has a Crt bonus, making it pretty dangerous to those units with crappy luck (like Cormag).

@Rating: Well, it's Knoll. He absolutely blows as a combat unit, but summoning does have some pratical uses - nothing world-changing, but he's certainly more useful than failures like Marisa or the trainees.

2.5/10 points.

#11 MachTwelve

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:56 AM

I anticipate a few not counted votes upcoming today

I like Knoll. He has some good support conversations and such, and is pretty unique as a character. He can instantly promote in chapter 15 with that master seal (I swear IS put that there just for him). His phantoms are great for protecting squishys like Tethys from Purges, Boltings, and Shadowshots, as they are always first priority. I guess he can attack something or heal in a pinch as well, but those aren't his strong points.

His luck sucks, but he shouldn't really be seeing combat, so it's somewhat excusable.

Still phantoms aside, he's pretty bad. Phantoms are what makes him good.

4.5/10, slightly below average.



I have too second these opinions. I think if he came earlier, like chapter 8 or something, he would be up there with Saleh, but his late joining time affects his usefulness. I give 5/10 for the phantom utility, healing (this point could be argued), near insta promo, and my bias towards dark magic users. I just like dark magic, so why is it that the enemy gets shamans way before you can?

#12 Ranger Jack Walker

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:20 AM

I like Knoll both as a unit and as a character. Summoning is awesome against Gorgons and the Draco Zombies (granted that there are only 2 in the main game but still.) He can hit hard as well as take a magic based hit but drops dead if a physical unit touches him. Also, i'm not a veteran somwhats a knollroll and why does doing that mean the vote is not counted? Anyway, oi give him 6.5/10

#13 Onmi

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:21 AM

2.5/10

Poor Knoll, being the only dark magic user (except Ewan but LOL using Ewan) in a game where Dark Magic is the pits. You can summon which others have mentioned as good for you, and you can staffbot, which is handy. The problem is you have 0 combat utility, and you come so late that those summons mean nothing, and don't even think of going Druid.

#14 Sara.

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:22 AM

I like Knoll both as a unit and as a character. Summoning is awesome against Gorgons and the Draco Zombies (granted that there are only 2 in the main game but still.)


There are 3

#15 Thor Odinson

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:23 AM

What Horace said 4.5/10

#16 Anouleth

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:49 AM

I have too second these opinions. I think if he came earlier, like chapter 8 or something, he would be up there with Saleh, but his late joining time affects his usefulness.

Not really. :KnollRoll: cannot ever match Saleh in either staff rank (since he gets E on promotion) or combat due to his abysmal luck and defense. He also gets a much inferior S Rank weapon.

And I'm not voting anyway so
:KnollRoll: :KnollRoll: :KnollRoll:

Edited by Anouleth, 01 March 2012 - 09:52 AM.


#17 Levant Caprice

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:54 AM

I have too second these opinions. I think if he came earlier, like chapter 8 or something, he would be up there with Saleh, but his late joining time affects his usefulness.

Anouleth said everything I could ever hope to say, pretty much.

That aside, 3/10. His summons are useful for taking crap like Shadowshot and Stone (the former can be dangerous to crappy LCK units, and the latter... Let's just say petrification is awful to get hit with), but that's literally all he has.

Edited by Metal King Slime, 01 March 2012 - 09:58 AM.


#18 Renall

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:58 AM

Wait, all those gorgons and archmogalls with shadowshot and (nearly) capped MAG near the end of the game suddenly stopped existing? Boy, do those 40 to 42 Atk shots hurt. They don't double, but shadowshot has a Crt bonus, making it pretty dangerous to those units with crappy luck (like Cormag).

...or Knoll, which rather creates a conundrum. Tossing out summons certainly helps in that edge case (and as long as Knoll keeps doing it he shouldn't be a target himself), but it's not like you're overwhelmed by the things. There's like three of them the whole game and one per map, and I believe only one is on an Arch Mogall. And all three are pretty much at the end of the game.

Like I said, there's cases where summons can help. This is pretty much the big one. I don't think that's enough to seriously justify his existence though. I'm talking like a situation where a doubling siege weapon/tome is going to pound you for the first several turns no matter what you do. Thracia 776 level dickery. In a situation like that, a Summoner would be a top tier sandbagger.

#19 Integrity

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:12 AM

Also, sorry Integ. Do you want me to go change my vote on Duessel still, of was that a "for future reference" kind of note? I changed it anyway.


Ooh, yeah, sorry for the wording there. I meant it as in the future, edit your original vote post.

Anyway, Saleh > Duessel because Saleh is a better fighter than Duracell with a little less durability and almost the same availability. Saleh also has staff utility.

Makes perfect sense to me.

#20 Scarlet

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:14 AM

...or Knoll, which rather creates a conundrum.

Knoll doesn't need to be in range of the attacks himself to send phantoms there. They can move the same turn they're summoned in.

but it's not like you're overwhelmed by the things. There's like three of them the whole game and one per map, and I believe only one is on an Arch Mogall. And all three are pretty much at the end of the game.

Oh, there actually are quite a number of them near the end of the game. There's at least one shadowshot!gorgon in chapter 18 (and many more if you let any of the eggs hatch), three shadowshot!archmogalls in chapter 20, and IIRC, even more shadowshot!gorgons in the first part of the final chapter, near Lyon (though I'm not sure about these, I might remember them for Stone instead).
I also remember one or two bolting!sages in chapter 16.

Like I said, there's cases where summons can help. This is pretty much the big one. I don't think that's enough to seriously justify his existence though. I'm talking like a situation where a doubling siege weapon/tome is going to pound you for the first several turns no matter what you do. Thracia 776 level dickery. In a situation like that, a Summoner would be a top tier sandbagger.

That's why he gets really low ratings for the most part despite being a summoner.

Edited by Shade of Shadow, 01 March 2012 - 10:15 AM.