36 replies to this topic

[Klok]

Honestly though, the GBA FE games have already made that "feel" I have for the FE franchise. The way the AMAZING game FE7x is going about it... I don't really like it... because of the established "non-extensive cursing" environment FE has been expressed to me as.

This.

There's no way I'm not playing that thing when it gets released though. It's too GOOD. I'll just have to suck it up.

The features are pretty cool anyway... not a fan of the minced up story, the dialogue, or the harsh fake difficulty, but the features are pretty cool :X

A single profanity does not necessarily have excessive impact in America. To some, it does; to others, it loses too much impact. Changing it to a "lesser" swear is sacrificing meaning for the sake of censorship and should be avoided.

The only thing I care about is theming. If the game sets a theme of "Characters don't curse" and a fan game says "I'm true to the original" but the characters do curse, then it's breaking the theme, and I dislike that.

Incidentally, I hold no opinion on the Alan thing, I never played FE6 but I'd assume a similar dialogue vein to FE7. And "Damn it" is a perfectly acceptable and sensible translation in the theme of the FE6/FE7/FE8 dialogues, therefore that translation would make the most sense to me.

[shadowofchaos]

Btw, going back to the topic's original purpose... if you want death quotes, I have the entire script on my Dropbox.

http://dl.dropbox.co... FE6 Script.txt

[Popo]

Alan:

Sh... shit. Why... here? Lord Roy...

I'm not offended by the language used here, but I think it's jarring in comparison to the rest of the patch--you don't really see the script peppered with this sort of vocabulary--and also as compared to what we've come to know and expect with English FE games. The wording might be toned down in the English releases, but there's something charming about the antiquated dialogue, and I definitely missed it with the FE6 patch, Alan's hiccup included. I've toyed around with the idea of asking for permission to edit the FE6 patch to fix this and other issues. XP

[Othin]

It should be jarring. It's a damn death quote.

Edited by Othin, 12 March 2012 - 01:30 PM.

[Klok]

Ah, you make such a good point. In fact, you've completely changed my mind!

-When mario dies in any game, he shouldn't say "Ohh nooo!", he needs to be more jarring. "Ohhh shiiit!"
-Link yells "Kyaaaah" when he dies, but fuck that, he needs to be more jarring. After all, he's dying. "FUUUUUUUCK"
-Samus doesn't say a damn thing when she dies, and we know how women are such screamers. It'd make a lot more sense if she cursed too!


Oh, wait. No that's right, it goes against the theme of those games too. Huh, maybe ignore me.

[Othin]

Mario is comical, Link is mute, Samus usually doesn't talk. Is that comparison supposed to do anything other than make you look foolish?

FE's characters are portrayed in situations with a serious atmosphere, where they talk much like how you would expect people to talk. They don't all need to curse, but especially for the cruder of the characters, it's perfectly reasonable for them to swear sometimes, especially at this sort of time.

[Klok]

Mario is comical, Link is mute, Samus usually doesn't talk. Is that comparison supposed to do anything other than make you look foolish?

Good job! Their theme says they don't curse, just like the theme established throughout FE7, and most likely FE6 says characters also don't curse. And if they do curse, they never say anything more than "Damn". By god I think you're getting the po-

FE's characters are portrayed in situations with a serious atmosphere, where they talk much like how you would expect people to talk. They don't all need to curse, but especially for the cruder of the characters, it's perfectly reasonable for them to swear sometimes, especially at this sort of time.

N/m.

[shadowofchaos]

I've toyed around with the idea of asking for permission to edit the FE6 patch to fix this and other issues. XP

The first thing I'd fix are the freaking support convos, if it were me...

For Example, Chad and Ellen's:



But FEditor Advance causes issues like the storage glitch... so yeah...

[Othin]

Good job! Their theme says they don't curse, just like the theme established throughout FE7, and most likely FE6 says characters also don't curse. And if they do curse, they never say anything more than "Damn". By god I think you're getting the po-


N/m.

If two letters and a slash are the best response you can give for my demonstration of why there is a difference, I'll take that to say that your answer to my first question is "no".

[Popo]

It should be jarring. It's a damn death quote.

Then other characters should speak/react that way as well, or at the very least, the characters that are intentionally made out to be more crass or rough around the edges. Bandits, mercenaries, etc. It was jarring in the sense that you have a lone, upstanding knight using colorful language that isn't present anywhere else in the patch. For me, it's a consistency issue. It makes the project look and feel disjointed, in my opinion.

[Othin]

Then other characters should speak/react that way as well, or at the very least, the characters that are intentionally made out to be more crass or rough around the edges. Bandits, mercenaries, etc. It was jarring in the sense that you have a lone, upstanding knight using colorful language that isn't present anywhere else in the patch. For me, it's a consistency issue. It makes the project look and feel disjointed, in my opinion.

That's the sort of thing I'd expect, yeah. I haven't looked at FE6's script well enough to know how it fits. If the Japanese text contains language for bandits and mercenaries that can be translated in similar ways, I would say they should do so. If not, then you're right; Alan's language does seem a bit harsh.

We can start looking into this if you want. Do you have any examples in mind?

[Celice]

Then other characters should speak/react that way as well, or at the very least, the characters that are intentionally made out to be more crass or rough around the edges. Bandits, mercenaries, etc. It was jarring in the sense that you have a lone, upstanding knight using colorful language that isn't present anywhere else in the patch. For me, it's a consistency issue. It makes the project look and feel disjointed, in my opinion.

Well, wouldn't that mean that you want the translators to alter the text from what it actually says, recrafting characters so that they appear more brass than they actually are? I don't think that's a very good alternative. What the issue mostly is is that the connotation of what the dude says doesn't quite have the same word in English, one that's harsh, yet not as much. But 'Shit' was the closest thing to what was being said, and such, the translation went.

It wasn't weird to me at all .-.

[Popo]

That's the sort of thing I'd expect, yeah. I haven't looked at FE6's script well enough to know how it fits. If the Japanese text contains language for bandits and mercenaries that can be translated in similar ways, I would say they should do so. If not, then you're right; Alan's language does seem a bit harsh.

We can start looking into this if you want. Do you have any examples in mind?

From what I recall, Alan's death quote was the only instance of a character saying "shit" within the patch. Considering his characterization, it just caught me off guard, whether it was in the original script or not. Everything else was translated as "dammit" or an equivalent, although I can't speak on the source material, as I can't read a single word of Japanese.

Did you mean examples of general things I would want to change in the patch, or just the issue of questionable language?

Well, wouldn't that mean that you want the translators to alter the text from what it actually says, recrafting characters so that they appear more brass than they actually are? I don't think that's a very good alternative. What the issue mostly is is that the connotation of what the dude says doesn't quite have the same word in English, one that's harsh, yet not as much. But 'Shit' was the closest thing to what was being said, and such, the translation went.

It wasn't weird to me at all .-.

Ideally, I would prefer to just drop "shit" and call it a day as opposed to rewriting multiple characters, it any edits were to be made. I used that merely to explain why I found the word choice jarring. :3

If an alternative can't be found, I think it would be better to fill in the gap with something more fitting of the character as opposed to the literal equivalent. My biggest issue with the patch as a whole is that it seems too literal sometimes. It's a great piece of work, don't get me wrong, but it shifts from being overly stiff to overly casual and lacking the antiquated feel that I mentioned before. I know that probably isn't important to a lot of people, but I was really impressed with the translation work on FE7 and think it would be cool to bring FE6 up to par, especially since we can all agree with some certainty that Nintendo will never release it in the west.

[Raven]

It's interesting how many people give a shit about this.

Hah, shit.

[CT075]

I wish I could just whip up some code that'd do this for me but instead you get what Ctrl-F says:

"Shit" shows up once on the script that Rey posted.
"Damn" shows up 31 times.
"Dammit" shows up twice.

"Fuck", on the other hand, doesn't appear at all.

Edited by Camtech, 12 March 2012 - 08:34 PM.

[Onmi]

Okay, not meaning to insult anyone here, but how about if we start talking about fixing the translation patches of any of the games, we look at FE4, which still doesn't have it's ending properly implemented, or 5, which has a stiff script, and the menu's have gone horrific.

I mean this just seems like such a non-issue to me, we have legit problems in the patch like broken supports (Chad/Ellen C, Fir/Karel C was broken last I checked as well) and we just spent and entire page debating about whether or not 'Shit' is appropriate language in the fantranslated hack. I think we might, for a moment, be focused on something that really doesn't matter.

[Charlie]

I think I'm going to can this thread. It went right off topic from the very first response, and the current discussion is certainly not appropriate for the Site Content forum. If any of you wish to continue this discussion, please create a new thread in the FE6 subforum. Thanks.

(By the way, Onmi is spot on. Don't waste energy arguing over a single word. Do something about the bigger issues before worrying about the small stuff.)