8 replies to this topic

[Bluedoom]

Searched the forum and all I saw was a Miles Edgeworth 2 translation thread and the Gyakuten Saiban 5 thread. o.O

So, to start off,

Spoiler -

WHY DID THE WRITERS MAKE PHOENIX A HOBO IN APOLLO JUSTICE??? *cries*

[Popo]

The running theory is because they had nowhere left to go with his characterization. As it is, they really only intended to create the first game, which is why the drama and tension between Phoenix and Edgeworth is so thick. It was supposed to be a standalone game until it became a sleeper success. By the time the third game rolled around, they were running out of ways to improve on Phoenix, as he was already extremely well developed. We knew why he had become a lawyer, we knew his hopes, his fears, his motivation, etc. Apollo Justice was a turning point because to include Phoenix would mean that they would really have to step it up. On the one hand, the game didn't need to have Phoenix, but I'm sure Capcom realized that the game would sell better if he were to be included. That said:

Spoiler -

I'm not sure why he had to be disbarred. In hindsight, they could have just made Phoenix Apollo's mentor, but then again, if they did that, people would just wonder why we didn't have a fourth game about Phoenix. They needed a reason to keep him out of court, and they went with something that would carry a lot of intrigue and dramatic effect. There's also something cool about the new guy saving the legendary hero from prison. XD

But yeah. It could have been better thought out/better executed. >o<

[BrightBow]

What bugs me about Apollo Justice:

Spoiler -

I still can't wrap my head around why Phoenix would be allowed to have an official role in organizing a trial in which he is personally involved. He wasn't even hiding it from the jury so connections alone shouldn't have allowed this.

Also they just glance over how Thalassa was brought of the country by her father. I mean, that's a pretty big thing. She wasn't dead, as his pupils believed. So he was just leaving his helpless, injured daughter in some foreign country whose language she can't even speak?

I also have a hard time listening to all those philosophical stuff about how unjust the justice system is. This is a game were the prosecutor can get away with throwing coffee into the face of the defense. That's sort of like when a long-running Shonen suddenly has a serious discussion about the morality of the resident Tsundere to beat the crap out of all the males around, as well as the roles of all the bystanders who don't do anything. You just sort of expect this things to be part of that universe.

[Shroom]

Anyone want to talk about the movie? i heard its a fantastic movie, not even factoring in that it's a great video game-based movie.

Spoiler -

There were many things I did not like about Apollo Justice. I didn't have high expectations and I didn't know anything about it beforehand, but... wow. Maybe it was because I had played two AA games before hand, but it was pretty terrible in my opinion. The cases could be figured out from the start and the characters were all very flat. None of the cases were climatic. As much as I love Klavier, he worked like he was on the defense's side the whole time. It wasn't fun that way.

And Apollo? You would have thought that he had never received any sort of training at all. I couldn't get into to it. I liked some characters a lot but... I hope they don't ever make another AJ game. It looks like GS5 might be another Phoenix game anyway. All just opinion, like I said. Trying not to turn it into a rant.

Trials & Tribulations was my favorite game, minus the first case.

[Bluedoom]

The running theory is because they had nowhere left to go with his characterization. As it is, they really only intended to create the first game, which is why the drama and tension between Phoenix and Edgeworth is so thick. It was supposed to be a standalone game until it became a sleeper success. By the time the third game rolled around, they were running out of ways to improve on Phoenix, as he was already extremely well developed. We knew why he had become a lawyer, we knew his hopes, his fears, his motivation, etc. Apollo Justice was a turning point because to include Phoenix would mean that they would really have to step it up. On the one hand, the game didn't need to have Phoenix, but I'm sure Capcom realized that the game would sell better if he were to be included. That said:

Spoiler -

I'm not sure why he had to be disbarred. In hindsight, they could have just made Phoenix Apollo's mentor, but then again, if they did that, people would just wonder why we didn't have a fourth game about Phoenix. They needed a reason to keep him out of court, and they went with something that would carry a lot of intrigue and dramatic effect. There's also something cool about the new guy saving the legendary hero from prison. XD

But yeah. It could have been better thought out/better executed. >o<

Aww hell T and T ended the Fey story, if anything. They couldve just added more interesting, new cases that would give him great fame, after all,

[spoilers] Kristoph does say that whoever handled Zak Grammarye's case could become famous. Hell, I'd rather GS4 had been about how Phoenix investigates and gets back at Kristoph, then he goes back to doing weird cases and such.[/spoiler]

Either ways, I don't want another Apollo. He was just a Phoenix wannabe, really. I'd rather they did some other Defence Attorney if they're done with Phoenix. Heck, they could've made Apollo like Robert Hammond, you know? I'm also interested in having GS5 focused on attornies like... Mia, or Grossberg. Heck, EVEN MR.ARMANDO.

@ Shroom: I loved T&T too, my favourite game. Even the first case was good, better than the one in GS1 at least.

Edited by Marth, 19 March 2012 - 07:24 AM.

[Popo]

I prefer Apollo to Phoenix, so I was glad for the change. Again, I don't think it was executed very well in many respects, but I liked that they tried to do something new. If they were to do it all over again, I would wish that Phoenix would no longer be present. I definitely think his inclusion detracted from the overall pacing and emotional impact of the story and that he took away from Apollo too much. Hopefully GS5 will remedy this and give us more information on Apollo, Klavier, etc.

[Rehab]

Apollo's power is interesting, but I don't think I really see the appeal in him as much as you/people who prefer him. I'm not sure what it is compared to Phoenix, maybe that he's a bit on the wacky side or doesn't seem as plausible as Phoenix did in his first game. Not entirely sure I liked what was done with Phoenix in AJ, either, but it's kind of a messy topic to me.

I've assumed the series has always been at least in part a (wacky and perhaps biased, to be sure) commentary on the Japanese court system, since I heard that the system actually is (while I'm guessing not as silly) pretty confrontational and biased against the defense. I'm ok with some lecturing or writerspeak being thrown into the dialogue on that basis, but I guess I don't understand where Apollo's story is supposed to take us yet, far as that commentary goes.

I may have heard that the guy who originally made the series left Capcom after the first or the first 3 games? Possibly because they wanted to do stuff with it he didn't care for? Not sure if that was Shu Narukami, and it's hearsay I haven't been told the source for, but it wouldn't be inconceivable going by what I know of the series.

I also need to watch the movie. and beg for Edgeworth's Day Out some more

Edited by Rehab, 20 March 2012 - 09:43 AM.

[Popo]

I'm not sure what it is compared to Phoenix, maybe that he's a bit on the wacky side or doesn't seem as plausible as Phoenix did in his first game.

For me, I felt like Phoenix was too much of a larger than life/"wacky" character right out of the box. He didn't truly feel like a rookie to me, although maybe his charming personality/ability to talk his way out of things played into that. With Apollo, I sympathized more.

I've assumed the series has always been at least in part a (wacky and perhaps biased, to be sure) commentary on the Japanese court system, since I heard that the system actually is (while I'm guessing not as silly) pretty confrontational and biased against the defense. I'm ok with some lecturing or writerspeak being thrown into the dialogue on that basis, but I guess I don't understand where Apollo's story is supposed to take us yet, far as that commentary goes.

I know AJ was definitely a critique on the system, but I'm not sure about the other games. :3

I may have heard that the guy who originally made the series left Capcom after the first or the first 3 games? Possibly because they wanted to do stuff with it he didn't care for? Not sure if that was Shu Narukami, and it's hearsay I haven't been told the source for, but it wouldn't be inconceivable going by what I know of the series.

His name is Shu Takumi and he's still there. He just released Ghost Trick under Capcom about a year ago and worked on AJ, although he wasn't part of the Kenji project. I hope he comes back for GS5! >o<

[Generic Operator]

I enjoyed all of the Ace Attorney games, even JFA and AP because I enjoyed the story for all of the cases. Though my most favorite would be the investigation series the logic and Edgeworth as the main character was great. And yeah I'm definitely excited about the movie, I will watch it when it comes out to the US.