56 replies to this topic

[Sangyul]

Maybe others will disagree with me, but I think Mist has an even worse start than Rhys. Sure, she promotes to gain a horse and all, but she starts at level one and cannot take a single hit in her joining map. She doesn't even heal a lot of HP. Once you clear that map with her in it, the fastest way to make her usable is to pump BEXP into her ... at a point when there are other characters who want or need that BEXP more. Plus, it wouldn't be a good idea to pump ... I don't know, a ton of experience into her in one sitting, right? Her combat after promotion will be a joke either way, since she uses swords and has base 1 strength with 35% growth. To be honest, if it weren't for the fact that I need her for the Black Knight fight, I'd never raise Mist and just stick to Rhys because he comes first, has a better staff rank, and magic base. I'd probably rate Mist and Rhys the same.

But I'll stop talking about Mist in Rhys' thread.

[Lord Raven]

Mist's horse is the reason you pump resources into her. A healer isn't necessary, and one that has a lot of movement and has the flexibility to get out of the fray when needed is better than one that has pitiful movement.

[Sangyul]

I'd rather train Tormod and give him staves instead of pumping resources into Mist just to get her a horse and crappy combat. Tormod has celerity and can hit harder than Mist. Plus, he takes BEXP at a time when your other units don't need it nearly as much. If healers are really "not that necessary," then I'd rather take Rhys who would be higher leveled at this point, dump him as soon as Tormod promotes, and be done with it. I only raise Mist because of the BK fight. But, as I mentioned, this isn't the right topic to be arguing about Mist.

To try to keep this on-topic, I gave Rhys a 6 because I feel his staffing is worth at least a 5. His staff lead over other staffers and greater magic base I feel is worth another point while I took off points for durability and combat fail.

[Lord Raven]

Well bringing Tormod up isn't like Mist, because Tormod doesn't have Canto and Tormod's main clame-to-fame is the offense he can build up with his 8 move; relatively, it's +2 move/turn with a siege tome and it's handy, as well as being between mounted and foot units. Weapon ranks rise too slowly for Tormod to be effective with a staff, so having someone with C (Physic!) upon promotion is preferred, especially if that person has a horse.

It's the right thread to be arguing about Mist, because Mist is a part of the reason why Rhys is so bad; another part being that Rhys really sucks.

[Sangyul]

I'm pretty sure that arguing about Mist in Rhys' topic is borderline close to "not X" arguments. Also, PoR actually has less status staves than, say, FE7 or FE8 (or FE6 from what I've heard). From what I remember, only endgame and the chapter where you storm Daein castle have any significant status staff users. Poison isn't as much of a problem as falling asleep or being silenced, and as long as the poisoned character doesn't fall to 3 HP or less you can just leave them poisoned and heal off the lost HP. My point being that in PoR, anyone with a heal staff and enough magic should make a "good enough healer".

My point in bringing up Tormod was that if we really want a high-move staff user, just get him to promotion and give him a staff. Sure, Mist can canto out of the way after she promotes without taking up an item to do it. I concede that. But is it really THAT much important in itself? You get a ton of physic staves in this game. On average, Rhys will have better magic range so he will reach further than Mist with those staves. Her high move and his longer range somewhat cancel each other out to me. (Not completely, but enough to lessen the gap.) Mist doesn't even start off mounted and at a higher level than Rhys, unlike most other second-joining healers. If it weren't for the fact that she is semi-forced in the Black Knight fight, I'd consider her to be a liability.

But seriously ... both you and I gave Rhys our ratings. It's not Mist's turn yet. If we're going to continue this, we should do it over PM.

[Levant Fortner]

I'm pretty sure that arguing about Mist in Rhys' topic is borderline close to "not X" arguments. Also, PoR actually has less status staves than, say, FE7 or FE8 (or FE6 from what I've heard). From what I remember, only endgame and the chapter where you storm Daein castle have any significant status staff users. Poison isn't as much of a problem as falling asleep or being silenced, and as long as the poisoned character doesn't fall to 3 HP or less you can just leave them poisoned and heal off the lost HP. My point being that in PoR, anyone with a heal staff and enough magic should make a "good enough healer".

My point in bringing up Tormod was that if we really want a high-move staff user, just get him to promotion and give him a staff. Sure, Mist can canto out of the way after she promotes without taking up an item to do it. I concede that. But is it really THAT much important in itself? You get a ton of physic staves in this game. On average, Rhys will have better magic range so he will reach further than Mist with those staves. Her high move and his longer range somewhat cancel each other out to me. (Not completely, but enough to lessen the gap.) Mist doesn't even start off mounted and at a higher level than Rhys, unlike most other second-joining healers. If it weren't for the fact that she is semi-forced in the Black Knight fight, I'd consider her to be a liability.

But seriously ... both you and I gave Rhys our ratings. It's not Mist's turn yet. If we're going to continue this, we should do it over PM.

I don't really want to get involved with this, but personally, I'd say Tormod has the same problem as Mist does in terms of joining, to some extent. And at least 80% of the physic staves that you get have to be stolen... would it really be worth leaving an enemy healer alive to annoy you long enough until you can yoink his staff?? Personally, I think not. That said, I'd arguably think training Tormod's more trouble than it's worth too...

Edited by Metal King Slime, 01 April 2012 - 03:15 AM.

[Sangyul]

I don't disagree that Tormod has problems in his join time too. He starts off massively underleveled and unimpressive. The thing is that he takes BEXP at a time when you can spare a lot of it, because Marcia and Jill and Kieran and Oscar and all those other units you're using should be solid enough to not need it. Same with whomever you've been training. So if you want to use Tormod, you can spare quite a bit of BEXP. Mist, on the other hand, shows up in the same chapter as Marcia, a few before Jill, right before Kieran, and so on. Mist needs BEXP at a time when quite a bit of other units need it.

Also, what's wrong with stealable physic staves? Sure, you have to steal them, but you CAN steal them. I always steal as many physic staves as I can, and I find that I have more than I can get rid of by endgame. Even if you only steal one or two of those, are you REALLY going to burn through all of them?

[Levant Fortner]

I don't disagree that Tormod has problems in his join time too. He starts off massively underleveled and unimpressive. The thing is that he takes BEXP at a time when you can spare a lot of it, because Marcia and Jill and Kieran and Oscar and all those other units you're using should be solid enough to not need it. Same with whomever you've been training. So if you want to use Tormod, you can spare quite a bit of BEXP. Mist, on the other hand, shows up in the same chapter as Marcia, a few before Jill, right before Kieran, and so on. Mist needs BEXP at a time when quite a bit of other units need it.

Also, what's wrong with stealable physic staves? Sure, you have to steal them, but you CAN steal them. I always steal as many physic staves as I can, and I find that I have more than I can get rid of by endgame. Even if you only steal one or two of those, are you REALLY going to burn through all of them?

That isn't quite it. Tormod desperately NEEDS a master seal to function, else it's a painstaking trip to level 20 (and as I see it, it's even worse since he comes along at a point in time where your party should be close to promoting, if not promoted already). And on BEXP: Personally, I consider the stealth BEXP and the BEXP from the chapter right before you recruit Tormod to be more trouble than it's worth, but that's irrelevant.

As for physic staves being stealable, the thing is, the number of physic staves you can get without having to resort to stealing can be counted on one hand (and one of THOSE isn't until the end of the game).

Edited by Metal King Slime, 01 April 2012 - 04:08 AM.

[Snapdragon]

5/10 Useful early game healing but becomes outclassed by any of the mages or mist if you choose to use them.

[Lord Raven]

That isn't quite it. Tormod desperately NEEDS a master seal to function, else it's a painstaking trip to level 20 (and as I see it, it's even worse since he comes along at a point in time where your party should be close to promoting, if not promoted already). And on BEXP: Personally, I consider the stealth BEXP and the BEXP from the chapter right before you recruit Tormod to be more trouble than it's worth, but that's irrelevant.

Given that there is a lot of BEXP in this game and stealth BEXP is relatively easy to get given there are a million guides out there to get it- this is not quite right. Even without Steath BEXP there is no shortage of BEXP. I also used a team of ~12 and managed to get Tormod to a good level in time for when he needs to start Sieging.

[Levant Fortner]

Given that there is a lot of BEXP in this game and stealth BEXP is relatively easy to get given there are a million guides out there to get it- this is not quite right. Even without Steath BEXP there is no shortage of BEXP. I also used a team of ~12 and managed to get Tormod to a good level in time for when he needs to start Sieging.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, I suppose. At any rate, IMHO, there are better uses for BEXP than an underleveled mage who doesn't stand out nearly enough from the other mages to really be worth it.

[Lord Raven]

You'd be surprised how much 2 move can make one stand out.

[Levant Fortner]

You'd be surprised how much 2 move can make one stand out.

True, but that's about the only real reason Tormod has in his defense... =/ Also, it's not like that'll enable him to replace Mist, especially if healing is as useless as people love to claim it is...

[Lord Raven]

Only Boron's saying Tormod should be a viable healer. He's good for the occasional heal here and there but I'm stating he's a utility unit that launches a Meteor, Bolting, or Blizzard often because he can reach the end of the map faster. He is also more durable than the other mages (and, to be relevant to this thread, much better than Rhys in this department) and can take ~3 enemies before going down unlike the others. His offense and defense are generally a decent enough ways above that of the other magic-users that, yes, Tormod is something special when you give him BEXP.

[Levant Fortner]

Only Boron's saying Tormod should be a viable healer. He's good for the occasional heal here and there but I'm stating he's a utility unit that launches a Meteor, Bolting, or Blizzard often because he can reach the end of the map faster. He is also more durable than the other mages (and, to be relevant to this thread, much better than Rhys in this department) and can take ~3 enemies before going down unlike the others. His offense and defense are generally a decent enough ways above that of the other magic-users that, yes, Tormod is something special when you give him BEXP.

Alright. Though I have reservations about him being able to use Bolting or Blizzard in a timely manner considering his ranks for thunder and wind default to D (when promoted).

Edited by Metal King Slime, 01 April 2012 - 01:26 PM.

[Lord Raven]

Nobody else really needs the Arms Scrolls, though his base D in Thunder before promotion makes it viable.

[Sangyul]

Only Boron's saying Tormod should be a viable healer. He's good for the occasional heal here and there but I'm stating he's a utility unit that launches a Meteor, Bolting, or Blizzard often because he can reach the end of the map faster. He is also more durable than the other mages (and, to be relevant to this thread, much better than Rhys in this department) and can take ~3 enemies before going down unlike the others. His offense and defense are generally a decent enough ways above that of the other magic-users that, yes, Tormod is something special when you give him BEXP.

I hate to bump this topic back up, but I think you're misunderstanding me. I know that Tormod is lauded for his siege tome attacking and additional two move. My point in healing is that unlike the previous FEs where you can skip large parts of the map with Warp and there are quite a bit of status staves, PoR doesn't have Warp and there's really only two chapters where status staves are at all a significant problem. So you can pretty much hand any of the mages a simple heal staff and say, "Healer." And as for the Rescue staff, none of the mages are touching it in efficient play. That's Elincia and Mist's job. Unlike Mist, though, Elincia doesn't have to be raised to use it at base. (Rhys isn't touching Rescue either because his move sucks.)