Rate the Unit, Day 4: Jagen

[Peppy]

Hey, 13th? Are you going to host this again or is this up to me now?

- Ratings are assumed to be on Hard 2 Mode.

- Votes need some explanation regarding their gameplay performance to be counted. If somebody else said what you want to already, quote them explicitly.

+/- ≤1 point extra regarding personality/appearance is encouraged, but no more. If you exercise your bias privileges, please do so explicitly. Also, if your vote is already a 10/10 or greater than 9 and you give a full point of bias, The score may not exceed 10!

- Numerical votes out of 10, or something proportional to it. Make it easy to calculate for my sake.

- Each ranking phase ends from 2100 to 2200 EST. 13th May start the topic again but i am not sure. Do the math if you are in another timezone!

- I will insist you do not use the "Not X" reason on any character, where X is another unit. If you do, your vote will be thrown out.

- "Recruits X" or "takes you to X chapter" arguments are explicitly banned. C'mon, people, this shouldn't need to be a rule. That's not gameplay performance.

- Assume that the character in question is being recruited.

- Similar to the "Recruits X" rule, do not use "He Comes with a Free Ridersbane" as an argument.

- I withhold the privilege to tell you your rating is bogus and demand you revise it if it breaks any of the above. I will not throw out votes anonymously, you will be informed and given a chance to revise.

It's Jagen! Since this is H2, He can be quite helpful for the first few chapters but his potential fades away after a while. He shall get a 7.75 From me!

Averages:

Marth: 6.33

Abel: 8.76

Cain: 8.90

[The_Purple_Knight]

completely worthless outside of H5. His weapon rank and silver lance are completely unnecessary in H2. Abel and Cain do well enough that a silver lance isn't that helpful in early game and then Hardin comes along with the same lance rank and better growths . So even when his weapon rank and starting equipment that would have come in handy later in the game , are worthless because another character shows up who can pull off jeigans job better . He's defense isn't even good enough for meat shielding outside of early game . He's an expirence dump and unlike other jeigans he isn't even useable outside of early game because of his mediocire growths and awful bases . Overall he's practically worthless outside of the starting chapters and even then he isn't that great .

Edited April 4, 2012 by The_Purple_Knight

[Thor Odinson]

While not as necessary as on H5 for your survival, and his bases aren't as good as, say, Marcus, Silver Lance still comes in handy at times especially if you're going fast. And hell, if he can sustain himself for a while on H5, he can sustain himself on H2.

Bumping vote up to 7.5/10 since apparently he can go up to C18 no problem

IDK I just haven't played FE11 in like

a year

I forgot what they're all like except Abel, Shiida, and Lena

Oh I forgot

Manly shoulder armour of doom +1

8.5/10

Edited April 5, 2012 by Luminescent Blade

[Fallenite]

can someone say best unit

10/10

[Peppy]

1/10 completely worthless outside of h5 . His growths are awful and his bases aren't even that good .

Yeah... no... Try again with that one!

[Bluedoom]

can someone say best unit

10/10

I don't think this should be considered either. :|

@TPK: Jagen is most certainly usable for the first 10 chapters,he's definetly not useless.

So Jagen formed the archetype of chars who start strong and end up horrible endgame. But uptill H2 in Shadow Dragon, Jagen's pretty usable, at least until...possibly midgame, or late midgame, if he gets lucky with growths. Silver lance is awesome for babying units, so that's a plus.

6.5/10

[Peppy]

I don't think this should be considered either. :|

He shall be given a chance to revise too... If not, oh well!

[The_Purple_Knight]

Yeah... no... Try again with that one!

What about now ?

[eclipse]

Your rating has disappeared. Anyway. . .

Jagen gets insta-Silver Lance, and continues to be useful by being able to fly with it once reclassing becomes available. There will be better options available in the end, but he's so very helpful in getting past the beginning of the game!

7.5/10

[Espinosa]

So how good is Jeigan if reclassed into Bishop on the first opportunity?

[eclipse]

He'll do decently as a staffbot. Hitting RES isn't too bad, since most unpromoted enemies have a nice little goose egg for it (and most promoted enemies don't have buckets of it). Once he hits B staves, he's home-free, because Recover doesn't care about Magic.

[Esaka]

Manliness!!!!!

7.5/10 +1 bias

[Integrity]

completely worthless outside of H5. His weapon rank and silver lance are completely unnecessary in H2.

False. Jagen is still a miss-proofing safety net at his very worst with the Silver Lance, and the best way to drop the bosses of C1 and C2 besides.

Abel and Cain do well enough that a silver lance isn't that helpful in early game and then Hardin comes along with the same lance rank and better growths .

"isn't that helpful" != 1/10, unless you're going to rate Gordin a 0.05/10 (in which case you would also be a moron). Hardin also shows up in Chapter 6 (he sure as hell isn't helping the main force for most or any of chapter 5) so apparently Jagen may as well not exist before Hardin shows up. Oh wells.

So even when his weapon rank and starting equipment that would have come in handy later in the game , are worthless because another character shows up who can pull off jeigans job better .

His shit wouldn't have come in handy "later in the game" because by then he's been mostly relegated to support roles. Also, did you miss the part where Hardin's existence should not detract measurably from Jagen's score? It's in the rules.

He's defense isn't even good enough for meat shielding outside of early game .

So what's he doing early game? Oh right, contributing.

He's an expirence dump and unlike other jeigans he isn't even useable outside of early game because of his mediocire growths and awful bases .

He's plenty usable. Optimal? No. But Jagen can still fight and generally not immediately die far into Hard 5 and this rating sure as fuck isn't on H5.

Overall he's practically worthless outside of the starting chapters and even then he isn't that great .

I'll just fix this one for you:

Overall he's not particularly great outside of the starting chapters but for then he's damned helpful.

I like not being the host so I can do assholey things like disagree with people. I say if he maintains a 1/10 score it should be discounted for using things like "facts that are objectively wrong" and "rulebreaking" as justification.

[Elieson]

5, because the game is way harder early on, and Jeigan most definitely helps, whether he bosssmacks or weakens for others our outright uses his silver to blast a clear path.

He dwindles after mid, but still, the gane is considerably easier after mid.

So, ol' Iron Bones gets a 5.

[Colonel M]

You know, if we consider Warpskip... he almost gets an 8/10, maybe even 9 since he can pull work for quite a long time.

I think the main thing is he's pretty easy to crutch on for a lot of earlygame, and with Ridersbane his offense doesn't really dwindle. It's a pity when I did my debate with 13th he didn't really show me what Jeigan could do... but...

We'll also follow what Integrity said.

With Warpskip taken into account, 8/10. If not, drop to... I'd say a 7/10.

[13th]

Iron Bones gets an 8 from me, with a 0.5 for liking him for 8.5.

He is extremely clutch early on, and unlike what people think, he DOESN'T fade into Obscurity until AT LEAST Chapter 16, even farther. His instant Ridersbane is useful in chapters 5, 7, 10, and 12, and Silver Lance is useful everywhere. His largest issue is his Speed, but enemies aren't that fast. Yet.

[Anouleth]

I find that as late as Chapter 12 in H3, Jagen is still one of my better units. Most of my units don't hit has hard due to lack of Silver Lance, and while his durability is only average, he also has the best mobility on my team.

[OrangeCrush980]

Jeigan falls behind the rest of the team pretty quickly. While he's still usable, you're better off giving exp to long term units instead.

4/10, -1 because I'm sick of Jeigans getting so much love for a total of 3/10

[Colonel M]

Jeigan falls behind the rest of the team pretty quickly

Could you please tell me when this is, because from how I see it he almost never falls behind. If anything, a lot of units STILL LAG behind Jeigan for a long time. In Warpskip? They'll never catch to him. Except maybe Shiida for boss killing.

[OrangeCrush980]

Base level Hardin is better in almost everything. Also, Jeigan needs his Silver Lance to be better than most units after 2-4 levels, and that Silver Lance has only so many uses.

[CT075]

Base level Hardin is better in almost everything. Also, Jeigan needs his Silver Lance to be better than most units after 2-4 levels, and that Silver Lance has only so many uses.

1 unit is better = jagen is worse than the rest of the team

gg logic

for that matter, gg research

(HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res)

level 2 Jagen: 22.4 7.2 1 10.35 8.15 1.3 9.2 6

base Hardin: 24 9 0 7 8 3 8 1

I see... 1 HP (ooh scary), 2 strength (admittedly a minor win), and... 1.7 luck. Jagen wins in everything else.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Camtech

[OrangeCrush980]

It's just a minor lead that won't last for very long.

[PKL]

You forget that Jagen was extremely clutch in the early chapters and ACTUALLY EXISTED. And he doesnt lag behind much for a very long time. Hell, Ive used him all game in H5 as a mobile Ridersbane for Player Phase offense against cavaliers, as a shopper and other stuff. 8/10

Edited April 4, 2012 by PKL

[eclipse]

ITT: Jagen bias. He's still plenty useful for H2, and there's a reason why he's free in most drafts! Silver Lancing axe guys is THAT good.

[CT075]

It's just a minor lead that won't last for very long.

Oh really?

Hardin fails to match Jagen's base skill/defense until level 11. He never reaches Jagen's base res (promo bonus aside), unless you class him into like Curate (which is retarded).

Jagen can also go Draco for flying utility early on, and Bishop as a semi-decent staffer later. And again, I repeat -

one unit being minorly better =/= worse than the team

this is the issue i have with people who say that hol!sety is better than arthur "because his stats are so much better". the enemy still dies and arthur does it first (and he's doing it before sety even exists).

characters do not exist in a vacuum, against the enemies you face the extra is just superfluous. why do i care that hardin does an extra 3 damage more than the enemy's health compared to jagen, the unit is still fucking dead. hardin's slight leads by endgame shouldn't even come close to what jagen can do in the beginning.

oh yeah

7/10

Edited April 4, 2012 by Camtech