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Rate the Unit, Day 33: Lalam and Elphin


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#1 Integrity

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 05:55 AM

Dat Rules
- Ratings are assumed to be on Hard Mode.
- Votes need some explanation regarding their gameplay performance to be counted. If somebody else said what you want to already, quote them explicitly.
+/- ≤1 point extra regarding personality/appearance is encouraged, but no more. If you exercise your bias privileges, please do so explicitly.
- Numerical votes out of 10, or something proportional to it. Make it easy to calculate for my sake.
- Every ranking phase ends whenever I get out of bed, between 0700 and 0800 EST. Do the math for your timezone, Brits.
- I will insist you do not use the "Not X" reason on any character, where X is another unit. If you do, your vote will be thrown out.
- Characters should be rated for their performance on all possible routes (A/B / Sacae/Ilia) but should not be penalized for routes they physically cannot exist on (z.B Juno in Sacae).
- "Recruits X" or "takes you to X chapter" arguments are explicitly banned. C'mon, people, this shouldn't need to be a rule. That's not gameplay performance.
- I withhold the privilege to tell you your rating is bogus and demand you revise it if it breaks any of the above. I will not throw out votes anonymously, you will be informed and given a chance to revise.

AVERAGES
WENDY!: 0.19
Bors: 1.14
Barth: 2.07
Wolt: 2.16
Ward: 2.61
Dorothy: 3.17
Lilina: 3.53
Merlinus: 3.53
Roy: 3.54
Geese: 3.70
Treck: 4.66
Oujay: 4.80
Fir: 5.08
Lot: 5.40
Gonzales: 5.45
Sue: 5.64
Ellen: 5.73
Lugh: 5.98
Noah: 6.13
Chad: 6.42
Klein: 6.53
Astohl: 7.17
Saul: 7.18
Shin: 7.42
Zealot: 7.56
Clarine: 7.78
Tate: 7.89
Dieck: 7.94
Thany: 8.01
Alan: 8.52
Lance: 8.59
Marcus: 8.77
Rutger: 9.61

fun fact: if Brad comes back and actually justifies his 10/10, we're going to have tate > dieck

OKAY for today we're doing two units separately because I suspect people want to apply bias differently but the units are essentially the same. Have ats.

#2 Anouleth

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 06:00 AM

10/10

because dancers

#3 Integrity

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 06:04 AM

10/10

because dancers


the sad thing is
that's a perfectly acceptable answer

#4 Z.M.

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 06:26 AM

Posted Image
Roy, you should take advantage of this opportunity.

Lalum...dances. And giving a unit another turn in FE6's huge maps is always awesome.

10/10

EDIT: Oh shit, forgot Elphin. He also gets a 10/10, due to not dancing, but...barding. Posted Image

Edited by ZM456, 05 April 2012 - 06:27 AM.


#5 Bee

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 06:33 AM

9/10 for both

They let your units move again. Only thing that annoys me is that these two have no way to defend themselves if an enemy attacks them :/

#6 Renall

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 07:13 AM

Your standard one-unit dancers, except Elphin just inspires your troops with the power of rock or whatever. Anyway, they can make one unit move again. That's great. They also replace another unit, are made of paper, and don't do anything else ever. How that's worth a 10/10 is pretty much beyond me. They don't even have the force multiplier advantage of FE4 dancers or Herons.

Elphin has better supports but Lalam has Echidna. Kind of balances out there. Both have Douglas as a fast support. HEH.

7/10

#7 Anouleth

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 07:16 AM

They also replace another unit,

All units in this game replace another unit.

are made of paper,

Fortunately they don't need to fight.

and don't do anything else ever.

Why would you ever want to do anything other than dance?

#8 PuffPuff

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 07:24 AM

Of the two. Elphin is the better choice. But Lalum has a better support affinity. Despite that she clings to Roy so much, it's shocking that she supports slow with him. Another straight dancer. Upon which we have to kill Sylvia for the better one. :facepalm:

Elphin is better statwise. But Lalum has a better support affinity and recruits a better character, named Echidna. Of the two...

Lalum
9/10

Elphin
9.5/10

Edited by リンダ, 05 April 2012 - 08:00 AM.


#9 Integrity

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 07:41 AM

Of the two. Lalum is the better choice.


Followed immediately by Elphin > Lalam. What?

Elphin is better statwise.


Excuse me, but are you daft? Lalam is faster per-level than Elphin, which is good because either one's recourse to being attacked is to dodge. Elphin has a DEF lead that never exceeds 3 points and a RES lead that he doesn't even pick up until level 14 (do you realize how much dancing this is) thanks to Lalam's higher base. Oh, and Elphin has a 1 HP lead that eventually becomes 3. Holy shit. So by one argument, they're statistically balanced and by the other argument Lalam is better because evade > * for Dancers and Lalam has higher Evade. You could almost make a case for RES meaning something, but Lalam has a higher RES for most (or all) of the game anyway so.

#10 Onmi

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 07:42 AM

Lalum has hilarious supports and Dances, Elphin has an interesting character and interesting supports and channels Mic Sounders the 13th.

10/10 for the pair of them. And their personal theme in my mind (even though you can't use the two together)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82tzllnsQ38
Spoiler (Lalum)
No Elphin picture unfortunately

Edited by Onmi, 05 April 2012 - 07:42 AM.


#11 Sara.

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 07:47 AM

9/10 for them both, because even though they dance, you still gotta be careful with then both for a while (especially Elphin).

#12 PuffPuff

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 08:10 AM

Excuse me, but are you daft? Lalam is faster per-level than Elphin, which is good because either one's recourse to being attacked is to dodge. Elphin has a DEF lead that never exceeds 3 points and a RES lead that he doesn't even pick up until level 14 (do you realize how much dancing this is) thanks to Lalam's higher base. Oh, and Elphin has a 1 HP lead that eventually becomes 3. Holy shit. So by one argument, they're statistically balanced and by the other argument Lalam is better because evade > * for Dancers and Lalam has higher Evade. You could almost make a case for RES meaning something, but Lalam has a higher RES for most (or all) of the game anyway so.


Even though Elphin averages more in stats but dodge than Lalum does. But he gets those better stats slower. And he does not need a Robe like Lalum does. Because of her lower HP; and being at risk of getting 0HKOED until she at least gets to around LV11, or so. Recommeded to give her a Robe though. They are about equal having their differences. Lalum is only better to choose as to what u said already of her better dodge; and because of her recruiting a better character and having a better support affinity.

Edited by リンダ, 05 April 2012 - 08:12 AM.


#13 Integrity

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 08:32 AM

Even though Elphin averages more in stats but dodge than Lalum does. But he gets those better stats slower. And he does not need a Robe like Lalum does. Because of her lower HP; and being at risk of getting 0HKOED until she at least gets to around LV11, or so. Recommeded to give her a Robe though. They are about equal having their differences. Lalum is only better to choose as to what u said already of her better dodge; and because of her recruiting a better character and having a better support affinity.


Please read.

I'll do a more bigger rundown for you, since this is escaping you.

RAW STATS:
HP: Elphin wins by 1. Elphin's lead grows to 2 at level ~6, and 3 at level ~19. This does not constitute "Lalam needs a Robe but Elphin doesn't" unless you're actually bright enough to also count DEF, which I don't know if you are.
STR: Lalam wins forever. Not a single fuck was given that day.
SKL: Elphin wins forever. Not a single fuck was given that day.
SPD: Lalam wins forever having a 1 higher base and a 5% higher growth. Elphin ties her a 17, when he also naturally caps SPD. Note: 1 SPD > 1 HP.
LCK: Elphin has a higher base by 2 but a lower growth by 15%. Lalam spends the whole game closing the LCK gap. Note: 2 LCK = 1 SPD for the terms of evasion, but doesn't help against doubling.
DEF: Elphin's only real win is a +2 DEF base, plus a 5% higher growth. The gap doesn't become 3 DEF until level 17.
RES: Lalam has a +3 RES base, and Elphin has a +25% growth. Elphin ties Lalam for RES at 13, and eventually ends up at 20 with a point-and-a-half lead.
VERDICT: Frankly, who gives a fuck. Lalam is arguably barely better because 1 SPD > 2 LCK.

Lalam's dodgey parameters state that 15 AS doubles her at base. 14 doubles Elphin. Nothing in C12 is on that border. Some Mercs in C14x will double and kill Elphin where they wouldn't have doubled an equivalent Lalam. Point: Lalam, barely.
Lalam's defensive parameters state that 16 (physical) ATK 1HKOs her. 19 ATK 1HKOs Elphin. Exactly one enemy (the Longbowman) in C12 is on that border (with 16 ATK precisely) - everything else 1HKOs both of them. Everything in C14x is 20 ATK or higher, meaning an Elphin with at least +1 HP would elude 1HKO by ...two Archers on the map. Point: Elphin, by a pathetic margin.
Lalam's resistance parameters state that 18 (magical) ATK 1HKOs her. 16 ATK 1HKOs Elphin. The Shamans in C12 1HKO both. Everything in C14x 1HKOs both. Lalam has a meagre bonus against status sticks. Point: Lalam, meaninglessly.

I could hit a couple more chapters other than C12 and C14x, but I don't think it matters tbh. The point of this whole exercise is, statistically, Elphin is not meaningfully not 1HKOd by things that Lalam isn't. Even if you give each a Robe, they're going to elude almost all of the same 1HKOs. The difference between them statistically is arguably <= 0.2, depending on if you think Lalam's dodging one extra attack in a hundred compares to Elphin not getting 1HKOd by one enemy on each map.

#14 Thor Odinson

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 08:37 AM

Dances and shit.
9.5 for Elphin and 8.5 for Lalum. Same raw score of 9.5 for both but
Lalum annoys the fuck out of me so a negative bias is in order

Edited by Luminescent Blade, 05 April 2012 - 08:42 AM.


#15 dondon151

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 08:38 AM

dancers getting attacked

lol get better at this game

anyway 8/10

#16 Integrity

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 08:39 AM

dancers getting attacked

lol get better at this game

anyway 8/10


"yes but dondon not everybody at this game is as amazing as you are"

I don't want to deal with that inevitable shitstorm if I just told Ayanami "why the fuck do you care about stats on dancers". I'd rather just prove that their stat differences are meaningless.

#17 Groot

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:02 AM

10/10 dancing

I'd say 11/10 for Lalum alone though

#18 Colonel M

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:08 AM

dancers getting attacked

lol get better at this game

anyway 8/10

Well... There is Bolting...

...But yeah, they're both pretty much useful. Their differences are minuscule to be honest.

9/10. Dancers give extra turn for units that are bad ass like Miledy and a second chance to kill a boss with Rutgerspeed. I find Renall's rating a little weird to be honest but... I guess it isn't as terrible as Ayanami's description to an extent.

Edited by Colonel M, 05 April 2012 - 09:08 AM.


#19 Ice Sage

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 10:25 AM

9/10
because dancing and all that jazz.

#20 Cosmic_Harold

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 10:26 AM

9/10 for both. They prance and all.




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