320 replies to this topic

[Renall]

As I brought up in the other thread: even if they're supposed to represent the Irish provinces, that doesn't mean they're supposed to match them perfectly.

There's a difference between "is slightly different" and "is just fucking wrong." This is one of them.

Sorry, it just bugs the shit out of me. It's like translating New York as New Yoak.

Forrest Knight --> Ranger is official. I don't think there's any room for debate on that, when it was the exact translation used in FE8 for the similar class with the same Japanese name. The confusing one is the foot Forrest class, since it never showed up in FE7-11 for us to have an official reference point. We could go with Hero for the similarities, or we could go with something else, like Forester, which seems to convey a meaning closer to the original while making more sense to most players.

What is the Forrest class called in Japanese in FE4 and what is the promoted class Othin/Halvan/Machua have in FE5? Are they the same? The one in FE4 doesn't have Axes, but I'm curious if it's basically supposed to be the same thing or not. If so, "Hero" would be more appropriate for consistency's sake.

[OldMan]

In addition to "Barhara -> Valhalla" and "Jugdral -> Yggdrassil," all the names in Northern Thracia are hopelessly fucked up. Assuming they're using the English versions of the Irish province names, they pretty much are supposed to be...

• Lenster -> Leinster
• Alster -> Ulster
• Conote -> Connacht
• Manster -> Munster
• Mease -> Meath (or Mide)

This isn't even debatable. They were clearly intended to be the Irish provinces (in English), but the translators' spelling (in English) is wrong. There are probably other town names that are wrong but I'm not going to go out on a limb over things like Madino or whatever when there's no consistent theme, but in the case of the Northern Thracia castles there's seriously no room to wiggle here.

[Othin]

What is the Forrest class called in Japanese in FE4 and what is the promoted class Othin/Halvan/Machua have in FE5? Are they the same? The one in FE4 doesn't have Axes, but I'm curious if it's basically supposed to be the same thing or not. If so, "Hero" would be more appropriate for consistency's sake.

FE4: フォーレスト - fohresuto (forest)
FE5: マーシナリー - mahshinarii (mercenary)

The FE5 class is typically referred to as Hero, as it should be.

On this note, I raise the question of three other classes: Swordfighter, Axefighter, and Bowfighter. These seem to correspond to classes that American FE games translate as Myrmidon/Mercenary, Fighter, and Hunter. I don't know how the patch currently translates those classes, but those are the translations I would suggest.

Edited by Othin, 06 April 2012 - 10:58 AM.

[OldMan]

Why don't you download the patch and notice it actually isn't really a work in progress?

[General Banzai]

TRS has a similar English intro which calls the main villain a "Dark Load" rather than a "Dark Lord."

[Othin]

Why don't you download the patch and notice it actually isn't really a work in progress?

I've never really cared to bother with those newfangled emulators or patches.

[OldMan]

TRS has a similar English intro which calls the main villain a "Dark Load" rather than a "Dark Lord."

Then it isn't similar, because FE5's has no mangled English.

I've never really cared to bother with those newfangled emulators or patches.

In that case, just what are you doing in this thread?

[Othin]

In that case, just what are you doing in this thread?

I'm just that generous.

Edited by Othin, 06 April 2012 - 11:15 AM.

[Renall]

TRS has a similar English intro which calls the main villain a "Dark Load" rather than a "Dark Lord."

Well hang on a second, who's to say he isn't!?

EDIT: Also it's still stupid and wrong.

Edited by Renall, 06 April 2012 - 11:44 AM.

[dondon151]

EDIT: Also it's still stupid and wrong.

how do you know that the names were intended to be an exact translation of their respective references from mythology

and seriously, they're names - it's not a big deal if it's slightly off, and i'm willing to bet that >95% of all players don't give a shit about whether lenster or leinster is politically correct

[Renall]

how do you know that the names were intended to be an exact translation of their respective references from mythology

How do you know they weren't? Obviously we could do this forever. My point is they're stupid. You don't have to agree with me. The guy doing the patch doesn't have to agree with me. Nothing actually has to ever be done.

But it's still stupid.

[Othin]

How do you know they weren't?

Tordo is the thunder god in FE4/5, an obvious reference to Thor. Indeed, the ultimate spell used by descendants of Tordo is Thor Hammer: トールハンマー - tohruhanmah. This spell used the katakana "トール", "tohru", to refer directly to Thor. However, Tordo is referred to differently, as "トード", "tohdo". It can be no mistake: while Tordo is meant as a reference to Thor, it is not meant to be Thor - and it would be incorrect to translate it to Thor.

This lends good evidence that other such references were similarly adjusted slightly.

Edited by Othin, 06 April 2012 - 12:07 PM.

[Jediabiwan]

In addition to "Barhara -> Valhalla" and "Jugdral -> Yggdrassil," all the names in Northern Thracia are hopelessly fucked up. Assuming they're using the English versions of the Irish province names, they pretty much are supposed to be...

This isn't even debatable. They were clearly intended to be the Irish provinces (in English), but the translators' spelling (in English) is wrong. There are probably other town names that are wrong but I'm not going to go out on a limb over things like Madino or whatever when there's no consistent theme, but in the case of the Northern Thracia castles there's seriously no room to wiggle here.

Why would you assume this? Honestly, I hate when video games just copy-paste names of other locations for their setting. The way FE4 did it made it pretty obvious what it was referencing, but also had its own slight twist on the names and they were translated so that you could actually pronounce them. I can't imagine the game being set in the continent of "Yggdrassil". That just sounds so stupid, and I'm no expert on the mythology, but I don't think it makes any sense.

Tordo is the thunder god in FE4/5, an obvious reference to Thor. Indeed, the ultimate spell used by descendants of Tordo is Thor Hammer: トールハンマー - tohruhanmah. This spell used the katakana "トール", "tohru", to refer directly to Thor. However, Tordo is referred to differently, as "トード", "tohdo". It can be no mistake: while Tordo is meant as a reference to Thor, it is not meant to be Thor - and it would be incorrect to translate it to Thor.

This lends good evidence that other such references were similarly adjusted slightly.

Once again Othin offers a good example to support the point.

Edited by Jediabiwan, 06 April 2012 - 12:11 PM.

[Othin]

Why would you assume this? Honestly, I hate when video games just copy-paste names of other locations for their setting. The way FE4 did it made it pretty obvious what it was referencing, but also had its own slight twist on the names and they were translated so that you could actually pronounce them. I can't imagine the game being set in the continent of "Yggdrassil". That just sounds so stupid, and I'm no expert on the mythology, but I don't think it makes any sense.

Exactly. These names are clearly meant to be derived from the locations and myths and act as references, but not actually be the originals, explicitly transplanted.

[General Banzai]

Exactly. These names are clearly meant to be derived from the locations and myths and act as references, but not actually be the originals, explicitly transplanted.

On the flip side of the argument, though, while there are some points where the Kana clearly deviates from standard Kana of the mythological references (Tordo, Jugdral, Barhara), for Alster, Lenster, Manster, and Conote, the places use the exact same Kana as the Kana used for Leinster, Munster, Ulster, and Connacht.

This complicates the story somewhat.

[Tyrant Sage]

Personally I'd like to play an FE where the continent is a tree. You should know what I am commenting on.

Edited by Dark Sage, 06 April 2012 - 12:18 PM.

[Jediabiwan]

Personally I'd like to play an FE where the continent is a tree. You should know what I am commenting on.

yeah, this is why it didn't make any sense to me.

[Othin]

On the flip side of the argument, though, while there are some points where the Kana clearly deviates from standard Kana of the mythological references (Tordo, Jugdral, Barhara), for Alster, Lenster, Manster, and Conote, the places use the exact same Kana as the Kana used for Leinster, Munster, Ulster, and Connacht.

This complicates the story somewhat.

Well in that case, it's possible that they didn't feel making any change to the kana was necessary. It's also worth noting that the romaji in the game are different, so that may have been how the developers intended to differentiate it from the originals - knowing that in some other instances, they already were.

With all these uncertainties, it may be best to choose the translation that works best independent of whether or not it may have been meant to match the myth or the location perfectly. And in cases where the game already has romaji frequently displayed throughout the game's progression indicating one particular translation, sticking with that romaji seems easier than conflicting with it or needing to correct it.

[Guy Starwind]

Isn't there a translation name change section in the General Fire Emblem section on the main site?

[Jediabiwan]

I don't think any of the translations are bad enough that they need to be changed. As was being discussed in the Thracia 776 thread, its much better to just go with what people are used to after all these years like Celice and Oifey than to come up with new names, except in a few special cases like Yurius.

i don't think you understood

TheEnd is right; presentation and quality of translation should be reworked. but why change things (i.e., names) that are already in common use?

also brevity is the soul of wit etc.

To be redundant.


A translation that is useful focuses on removing the language barrier, that is, making it possible for people to PLAY the bloody game without having to memorize what menus and commands do what by translating them. In the case of story, you just need to translate it so people can understand the plot, whatever the hell the bloody names are is irrelevant so long as x character is referenced with a consistent name.

Changing characters' names from what the players are already used to is pointless, specially if the translation is by fans.