184 replies to this topic

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

People might be used to Barhara, but I don't think many people would argue that a retranslation of the game shouldn't fix it (which I think the new FE4 patch did, and no one really complained, so this might not be a great example. I just brought this up because I only learned about the new FE4 patch twenty minutes ago, and because Barhara stands out to me as the most egregiously wrong translation). I don't think that something wrong shouldn't be changed just because it's already ingrained in the fanbase.

Another example would be like how in Earthbound, there's a character named Pokey. He shows up in the sequel, Mother 3, and it becomes pretty clear that his name was always intended to be Porky; Pokey was just a translation error (or Nintendo's localization staff got creative). The people in charge of the Mother 3 fan translation went with Porky even though a large amount of the fanbase wanted them to stick with Pokey just because they grew up with that name, but I always thought the fan translators made the right choice.

I might be kind of anal about this because even I kind of disagree with some of the choices in the new FE4 patch (although I love one that people complained about), so I don't really expect a lot of people to agree with me. I just wanted to voice my opinion.

[Hyde]

People might be used to Barhara, but I don't think many people would argue that a retranslation of the game shouldn't fix it (which I think the new FE4 patch did, and no one really complained, so this might not be a great example. I just brought this up because I only learned about the new FE4 patch twenty minutes ago, and because Barhara stands out to me as the most egregiously wrong translation). I don't think that something wrong shouldn't be changed just because it's already ingrained in the fanbase.

Nit-picking slightly, but Barhara is more of a modified version of Valhalla rather than a crude romanisation. The romaji is Baahara, which means it can only be Varhalla at best.

In other words, Barhara isn't an "egregiously wrong" translation.

[General Banzai]

The developer intent may be not to have exactly Valhalla, but the currently translated version deviates from Valhalla in ways that are NOT expressed in the Kana. For instance, changing the V to a B.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

In other words, Barhara isn't an "egregiously wrong" translation.

I'm willing to admit that I was wrong about that, but wasn't it accepted that Pan's name doesn't have to be Parn even though it also uses the vowel extension? Even if that fits here, I guess I have to withdraw the "egregious" statement.

[General Banzai]

I'm willing to admit that I was wrong about that, but wasn't it accepted that Pan's name doesn't have to be Parn even though it also uses the vowel extension? Even if that fits here, I guess I have to withdraw the "egregious" statement.

Pan/Pahn is a particularly ridiculous example as the original translators changed the name when the Kana for the character and the Greek God were exactly the same.

[dondon151]

The developer intent may be not to have exactly Valhalla, but the currently translated version deviates from Valhalla in ways that are NOT expressed in the Kana. For instance, changing the V to a B.

using a "b" consonant in japanese to express "v" consonants in foreign languages is extremely common - more common than using ヴ with a small vowel

once again, demonstrating a lack of japanese knowledge

Edited by dondon151, 18 April 2012 - 12:58 AM.

[Celice]

Banzai, you still haven't realized that kana isn't an exact 1:1 representation of foreign words. Pan with and without the elongated sound are both valid--please don't tell me you're checking jp.wikipedia as validation, please

Edited by Celice, 18 April 2012 - 12:57 AM.

[General Banzai]

Banzai, you still haven't realized that kana isn't an exact 1:1 representation of foreign words. Pan with and without the elongated sound are both valid--please don't tell me you're checking jp.wikipedia as validation, please

Oh because Pahn really makes tons of sense over Pan

Like honestly, in English we slap those Hs in our elongated vowel sounds all the time

By your logic, Thellis is a perfectly valid translation of your name.

[dondon151]

Oh because Pahn really makes tons of sense over Pan

Like honestly, in English we slap those Hs in our elongated vowel sounds all the time

as long as it indicates that it's not supposed to rhyme with "can," i'm fine with it

By your logic, Thellis is a perfectly valid translation of your name.

as is serisu, therris, serlis, etc.

[Othin]

using a "b" consonant in japanese to express "v" consonants in foreign languages is extremely common - more common than using ヴ with a small vowel

once again, demonstrating a lack of japanese knowledge

So what you're saying is, the kana does not express a difference, yes?

Perhaps you might consider paying attention next time?

Edited by Othin, 18 April 2012 - 03:00 AM.

[OldMan]

So what you're saying is, the kana does not express a difference, yes?

Perhaps you might consider paying attention next time?

Why don't you follow your own advice?

"Deviating in ways that are NOT expressed in the Kana" can be read as "taking liberties"

Like in Belf -> Vergil - the kana doesn't support that -gil; ベルフ could be read as Verf, but the Vergil reading deviates in a way that isn't expressed in the kana

And while it could be read as simply dealing with alternate readings, the emphasis on the "not" implies he's talking about something he finds wrong

Edited by TheEnd, 18 April 2012 - 03:33 AM.

[Othin]

I wasn't making any suggestion beyond pointing out that fact.

Haven't you learned by now not to make assumptions about conclusions I don't state?

[General Banzai]

I don't think either of us like Belf -> Vergil.

I prefer Belve or Belves, myself.

using a "b" consonant in japanese to express "v" consonants in foreign languages is extremely common - more common than using ヴ with a small vowel

once again, demonstrating a lack of japanese knowledge

I knew that. The problem is that changing a "b" to a "v" ISN'T common in English, which is why Barhara doesn't make sense in an English translation.

once again, demonstrating a lack of english knowledge

Edited by General Banzai, 18 April 2012 - 10:38 AM.

[shadowofchaos]

I knew that. The problem is that changing a "b" to a "v" ISN'T common in English, which is why Barhara doesn't make sense in an English translation.

once again, demonstrating a lack of english knowledge

Nit-picking slightly, but Barhara is more of a modified version of Valhalla rather than a crude romanisation. The romaji is Baahara, which means it can only be Varhalla at best.

FE4 also does this with the Balmunk vs Balmung and Jugdral vs Yggdrasil (just missing a "si") and FE2 did it with Rainarok vs Ragnarok.

The thing is, references don't have to be letter for letter. :/

They can reference it while still trying to "have an original name". They can do that. Thank you Mr. "I know what I'm talking about" English major.

Someone just HAD to throw gasoline on a smoldering pile of sticks. This "discussion", if I can call it that, is like beating a dead horse without anyone to actually implement the changes. Checking Japanese Wikipedia for translations, only having a knowledge of katakana, and insisting your interpretations are valid above all other else... I'm just staying away from this thread now, it's not worth it. The FE12 translation storm was more entertaining than this.

Edited by shadowofchaos, 18 April 2012 - 11:34 AM.

[OldMan]

I don't think either of us like Belf -> Vergil.

I prefer Belve or Belves, myself.

Hahaha

I knew that. The problem is that changing a "b" to a "v" ISN'T common in English, which is why Barhara doesn't make sense in an English translation.

once again, demonstrating a lack of english knowledge

>Barhara
>Canon name written in plain Romaji in FE4
>Translation
>"I'm familiar with the canon"

[General Banzai]

>Barhara
>Canon name written in plain Romaji in FE4
>Translation
>"I'm familiar with the canon"

Romaji =/= English

[Arch]

Oh look, we're debating Vergil again. This isn't even funny anymore. Now it's just the sad continued beating of a dead horse. Let the horse rest in peace, Banzai.

I'd like to remind you that Belves was on the poll. It lost. Badly.

[General Banzai]

Oh look, we're debating Vergil again. This isn't even funny anymore. Now it's just the sad continued beating of a dead horse. Let the horse rest in peace, Banzai.

I'd like to remind you that Belves was on the poll. It lost. Badly.

TheEnd was the person who brought Vergil up

Why don't you bitch at him instead kthx

[OldMan]

Romaji =/= English

>Name
>English
>Óðr

TheEnd was the person who brought Vergil up

Why don't you bitch at him instead kthx

At this point, it doesn't quite surprise me that you can't see the difference between mentioning something and debating something

Edited by TheEnd, 18 April 2012 - 11:52 AM.

[Arch]

TheEnd was the person who brought Vergil up

Why don't you bitch at him instead kthx

I'd rather not. He simply brought it up as an example of "taking liberties." That's entirely accurate, it was an extremely liberal change. You're the one still beating the dead horse by bringing up disdain for the change, and your "alternatives" (which were absolutely decimated in the voting).

Edited by Arch, 18 April 2012 - 11:53 AM.