89 replies to this topic

[sunshinesan]

Is there any references to homosexuality in FE other than... Heather and Ike?

I'm pretty sure Heather is officially gay? Ike is more speculative. If Ike is gay, however, I feel that it is a BIG deal, not in the sense that the characters in game treated him in accordance to his sexuality or the plot was completely affected by that fact. I'm talking about in the sense that it was such a big deal when Samus removed her helmet at the end of the orginal Metroid. Ike was just a regular character in his game, doing his thing, and he happened to like men. It is this nonemphasis that makes me really interested, as any game/story can just slap on the "gay" character and use him/her as a means to churn out comic relief, etc.(The best example I can think of right now is Leeron from Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. Sorry for those that don't get the reference) Samus shocked fans everywhere when she revealed her identity. People assumed she was a man because that was the norm; men did the ass kicking and saving, and the damsels that did the distressing. Her gender didn't really matter, unless you wanted it to. She still kicked ass and took names.(This became less true as she became more sexualized in recent years)

With no clear indicators, people do this with Ike as well, (people complaining why he didn't pair up with Elincia at the end of Path of Radiance, or why doesn't he have potential wives like all other main lords in the series.) It is these assumptions that protagonists are male/straight that gets people riled up when they find out they are wrong. I don't think I've heard or played any other game where a character, let alone, a protagonist is homosexual. Ike is no slouch as a character either, which makes his sexuality way more interesting than say if, the character Q-Bert was gay (no one would care). His relationship with other characters in his mercenary group - his impact on his surroundings, and his friendship (more than?) with Soren really makes him a deep and well thought out hero.

I know this is an old topic of discussion, but I would like to discuss it further beyond superficial levels; I want to discuss its implications, as well as if there are other instances of homosexuality in FE or other games (Of course, not in a disparaging or novelty kind of way) that I'm not aware of.

Edited by goopy, 10 April 2012 - 05:22 PM.

[Lord Raven]

ike's "relationships" are about as gay as many man-man friendships before him

i liked how SH2 handled homosexuals. they're twins and you bring them gay pornos, then they created a dress for Gepetto's doll (who was a little girl). also, very flamboyant.

Edited by Mercenary Raven, 10 April 2012 - 05:30 PM.

[Celice]

I think too many people thumb in their interpretations of what they believe constitutes a sexuality, and then misreads a character by this construct, validating an imaginary quality in something which doesn't actually exist.

Raven, what the hell are you meaning by SH2. That acronym is shared by more than one game ._.

Edited by Celice, 10 April 2012 - 05:33 PM.

[Lord Raven]

shadow hearts 2 (also known as shadow hearts covenant)

[Dr.Sholes]

I thought Ike and Mia were supposed to have something going....

Anyways, I think a lot of times it's either used for comedy or to expand on character development and make the story more complex.

[Hawk King]

Ike is not gay. The reason he doesnt end up in a relationship with a female is because he has one thing on his mind. Improving his swordsmanship. Besides the entire Tellius plot was already thought up whe PoR came out, IS just couldnt fit it all in one game. Ike doesnt marry anyone at the end of PoR because IS already had his RD ending in mind. In fact, thats why no one in PoR had traditional FE endings.

[sunshinesan]

I think too many people thumb in their interpretations of what they believe constitutes a sexuality, and then misreads a character by this construct, validating an imaginary quality in something which doesn't actually exist.

Raven, what the hell are you meaning by SH2. That acronym is shared by more than one game ._.

I'm not stating that Ike was 100% without a doubt, gay. The fact that he is the only lord that doesn't have a potential wife in the entire series is got to be worth something. Not to mention that he "Journeys" together with one of his male friends to some far away land in the ending, In the end it is all up to the players' interpretation, to me, I'm 90% sure he swings that way.

Again, maybe it is better if you think of it this way, Ike has more evidence pointing towards the fact that he is gay than not. In the end, we are all speculating, so it is unfair that you call my speculations imaginary, and that I've "misread" a character.

Ike is not gay. The reason he doesnt end up in a relationship with a female is because he has one thing on his mind. Improving his swordsmanship. Besides the entire Tellius plot was already thought up whe PoR came out, IS just couldnt fit it all in one game. Ike doesnt marry anyone at the end of PoR because IS already had his RD ending in mind. In fact, thats why no one in PoR had traditional FE endings.

Interesting, and it makes sense that PoR didn't have an ending at all, let alone character endings.
But this still doesn't excuse him from his ending in RD.
and yeah, that's another idea, that Ike just doesn't care about women, even though he's straight. Or that he is sexually apathetic.

Edited by goopy, 10 April 2012 - 05:53 PM.

[Snapdragon]

Uh, well you could make a pretty decent case for Raven/ Lucius, in my opinion. Doesn't Raven say something along the lines of "I don't need/want a wife. I have Lucius."

I just wish people wouldn't automatically assume "This character is straight"' when there is no evidence to back it up.

[-Cynthia-]

ike's "relationships" are about as gay as many man-man friendships before him

i liked how SH2 handled homosexuals. they're twins and you bring them gay pornos, then they created a dress for Gepetto's doll (who was a little girl). also, very flamboyant.

So...you only like gay characters who conform to stereotypes? I hope you're being sarcastic.

Anyway, I think Ike's sexuality is ambiguous, probably intentionally so. He certainly doesn't come off as very heterosexual, considering he has no paired endings with females (all other male main lords do I think?)

For other FE characters who aren't heterosexual, I consider Legault bisexual (he also hits on Isadora).

Support Conversation B:

Legault: Yep. I’m a fugitive, and you’re a deserter. Looks like you and I were made for each other.
Heath: ...Speak for yourself.

Support Conversation A:

Legault: The same is true of me as well. Many of the Black Fang would see me dead if they could. Look, why don’t we help each other out? Lend a hand dealing with our respective foes?
Heath: My enemy is the strongest army division on the continent. No matter how you look at it, I’d say you’re getting the short end of the stick. Why would you agree to do all that for me?
Legault: Hm? Must be this thing called “love,” you know? Where are you going? I’m joking!! Get back here.

He could just be teasing Heath, but it's a little bit of an odd way to tease between heterosexual males. He also refers to Lloyd as handsome for what that's worth.

Raven and Lucius...I'm not really sure about the two of them.

Support Conversation A:

Raven: Meeting Eliwood really opened my eyes. I know that the marquess of Ostia is not behind the attack now... Some day... Yes. Some day when this war is over, I’ll go searching for the truth. And I’ll pay Ostia back for my suspicions in full.
Lucius: Excellent!
Raven: Except, I want you to stay home.
Lucius: What!? You are too cruel! Why!?
Raven: I want someone to go home to, you see. So go back, and wait.
Lucius: Why don’t you marry! Then there would be someone at home... And I could journey with you!
Raven: I need no bride to jabber at me-- There’s enough going on around here already!
Lucius: W-What is that supposed to mean!?
Raven: My case in point.
Lucius: Wait-- Wait! Lord Raymond!

Raven wanting to live with Lucius doesn't seem like a typical "man-to-man" relationship also they bicker like an old married couple. Their paired ending isn't very explicit about whether it's romantic or not, but a number of the heterosexual paired endings aren't either so...eh?

Edited by -Cynthia-, 10 April 2012 - 05:55 PM.

[Chalis]

I don't see what or how sexuality has to do with how someone sees a character.

[sunshinesan]

Uh, well you could make a pretty decent case for Raven/ Lucius, in my opinion. Doesn't Raven say something along the lines of "I don't need/want a wife. I have Lucius."

I just wish people wouldn't automatically assume "This character is straight"' when there is no evidence to back it up.

Exactly, the burden of proof shouldn't automatically go to the ones that assume something that simply disagrees with a norm and nothing else.

[Kramgnauh]

This kinda interesting seeing some hints of homosexuality in FE as (I think) Japan isn't really, how should I put it, up to the modern ideal of relationship. They seem to be more old fashioned favoring the typical man-and-woman relationship rather than the man-and-man and woman-and-woman. I remember reading somewhere that yaoi and yuri is not strange in Japan because it's fictional and the typical Japanese will not see it as something real.

[Sophia Aetheria]

Honestly, the series has a ton of implied gay characters and relationships. The Girl-Girl and Boy-Boy shippings that this rabid fanbase has are typically rooted in character endings. Or even just in their relationships in the game.

My favorite example is something that is completely up front in the first Fire Emblem game that I ever played. In Blazing Sword, Florina's relationship with Lyndis is kind of beyond just friendship.

There's a ton of factors in play here. Florina has a fear of men, and thus naturally associates more with girls. She's incredibly shy period, but around girls, she can be comfortable and find little bits of confidence. Lyn happens to empower her, and to give her something to fight for. She clings to Lyn in an adorable manner, and even says "I love you!" plain as day in a context that completely screamed romance to Lyn right at the conclusion of Lyn's arc. In the A-Support ending for Lyndis and Florina, it is stated that they spend the rest of their lives going back and forth to be together. That implies a bit of a forbidden and secret love. Of course, this could just be me projecting, since I totally connected with Florina since that's how I am... Still, its hard to look at the relationship as being anything but that. And while I'm sure that people will argue that since she can get married to Hector, my point is moot... well, I'd like to point out something that was very common until the LGBT community actually stood up for itself. Perfectly gay girls ended up being forced into relationships with way too forward men all of the time in the past. The relationship between Hector is so one-sided that it hurts, so honestly, I feel that's basically how it goes. She being shy and relatively helpless when not around Lyn results in her just going along with Hector's advances until marriage, and even after said marriage, still preferring to be around Lyn, who is conveniently one of Hector's close friends.

This kinda interesting seeing some hints of homosexuality in FE as (I think) Japan isn't really, how should I put it, up to the modern ideal of relationship. They seem to be more old fashioned favoring the typical man-and-woman relationship rather than the man-and-man and woman-and-woman. I remember reading somewhere that yaoi and yuri is not strange in Japan because it's fictional and the typical Japanese will not see it as something real.

Actually... Yuri and yaoi are common in Japan because homosexual relationships aren't looked down upon at all, really. In fact, Japan works essentially the same was as ancient Greece. Girls can run with girls and boys can run with boys, and in fact, its /expected/ for this to happen. Its only once people get older that the expectation for them to have a heterosexual marriage comes in, and that's just for children. Marrying sheerly out of love is still a relatively new thing in Japan. The younger generation of Japanese are also kind of flipping this expectation on their head, especially when you consider how widespread yuri and yaoi serials are, and how the most popular yuri serial, Yuri-hime, has a 3/4ths female subscriber base.

Edited by Sophia Aetheria, 10 April 2012 - 06:06 PM.

[Tyrant Sage]

Female MU and Katarina (or Cecil) are pretty gay for each other too. Or at least, it's easy to interpret that. It's pretty similar to Ike/Soren and Ranulf to an extent, except it's more like MU has really close girly girl relationships, just like Ike has really close male relationships.

I'm not sure if IS means it to be interpreted that way or something, but it's pretty easy too. It's just something they do. And I don't think it's a big deal if characters are gay personally.

Edited by Dark Sage, 10 April 2012 - 06:09 PM.

[Elieson]

Oh cool. Someone says they love another person, so they must be gay/lesbian.

Someone also says they want to spend more time with another person of the same gender. Obviously, that has to mean they are gay.

I mean, why, under any circumstances, would a person (well, in this case, a unit), consider spending time with another outside of their current adventure unless there was a sexual reason behind it?

[Anouleth]

Ike isn't gay. He's ambiguous, in the sense that he might be gay and he might be straight and he might be a eunuch.

[Sangyul]

I always figured Ike was asexual. I've said before and I'll say it again: a lack of interest in women =/= an interest in men. Ike has no interest in forming relationships with women, nor can he be paired with a female at the end of RD -- unlike the lords before him, who pretty clearly have a woman in his life. He leaves the continent either alone, or with Soren and Ranulf. And yet ... does this lack of female endings mean that Ike is gay? There really is no proof that he's gay. He may be closer to Soren (and his male companions) more so than he is with women who may or may have been interested in him, but that's not really proof in itself. Does he show interest in men? Because all Ike seems to be interested in (to me) is fighting, fighting, and to a much lesser extent food. I suspect Ike is just not interested in relationships, whether with women or with men. Whatever is between him and, say, Soren seems to be just platonic.

[Snapdragon]

Honestly, the series has a ton of implied gay characters and relationships. The Girl-Girl and Boy-Boy shippings that this rabid fanbase has are typically rooted in character endings. Or even just in their relationships in the game.

My favorite example is something that is completely up front in the first Fire Emblem game that I ever played. In Blazing Sword, Florina's relationship with Lyndis is kind of beyond just friendship.

There's a ton of factors in play here. Florina has a fear of men, and thus naturally associates more with girls. She's incredibly shy period, but around girls, she can be comfortable and find little bits of confidence. Lyn happens to empower her, and to give her something to fight for. She clings to Lyn in an adorable manner, and even says "I love you!" plain as day in a context that completely screamed romance to Lyn right at the conclusion of Lyn's arc. In the A-Support ending for Lyndis and Florina, it is stated that they spend the rest of their lives going back and forth to be together. That implies a bit of a forbidden and secret love. Of course, this could just be me projecting, since I totally connected with Florina since that's how I am... Still, its hard to look at the relationship as being anything but that. And while I'm sure that people will argue that since she can get married to Hector, my point is moot... well, I'd like to point out something that was very common until the LGBT community actually stood up for itself. Perfectly gay girls ended up being forced into relationships with way too forward men all of the time in the past. The relationship between Hector is so one-sided that it hurts, so honestly, I feel that's basically how it goes. She being shy and relatively helpless when not around Lyn results in her just going along with Hector's advances until marriage, and even after said marriage, still preferring to be around Lyn, who is conveniently one of Hector's close friends.

How, is Florina/Hector one-sided? I like the coupling but I don't really remember tons of build up for either Florina------->Hector or Hector-------->Florina To some degree, it came off to me as being a canon crack paring.

[Sophia Aetheria]

Oh cool. Someone says they love another person, so they must be gay/lesbian.

Someone also says they want to spend more time with another person of the same gender. Obviously, that has to mean they are gay.

I mean, why, under any circumstances, would a person (well, in this case, a unit), consider spending time with another outside of their current adventure unless there was a sexual reason behind it?

It doesn't have to be sexually motivated. Someone can just as easily be homoromantic. The amount of gay subtext in this series is so blatant that denying it is pretty much insulting. Its one of the things that I absolutely adore about Fire Emblem.

[Sangyul]

She clings to Lyn in an adorable manner, and even says "I love you!" plain as day in a context that completely screamed romance to Lyn right at the conclusion of Lyn's arc.

Sophia, while I'm not going to get into a discussion on whether Florina may be lesbian or not, I want to point out that her "I love you!" towards Lyn was not, to me, "plain as day in a context that completely screamed romance". I've heard girls say that to each other, when they're overexcited or just really happy about something. In other words, it did not stand out to me as anything romantic.