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Homosexuality in FE and gaming


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#41 -Cynthia-

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:04 PM

We don't know anything for certain about Ike's sexuality but it appeared to me that he was most likely heterosexual. I think he said in a conversation with Aimee that down the line he wanted a wife and family, could be wrong on this though.


I don't see this conversation anywhere in the script for PoR and nowhere in the conversations with Ike and Aimee in RD I can find on Youtube. So...pretty sure you just made it up. Which really goes along with kdanger's comment of "assumed heterosexuality", you even remember a conversation that didn't actually happen...perhaps because of a desire that Ike be heterosexual?

Edited by -Cynthia-, 10 April 2012 - 10:04 PM.


#42 Agile Tit-Tyrant

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:12 PM

Ike is not gay. The reason he doesn't end up in a relationship with a female is because he has one thing on his mind. Improving his swordsmanship.


I think it's because his first priority is his swordsmanship but if Ike is gay (honestly if you think this is true you're probably just over-analyzing everything) it's perfectly fine with me.

#43 General Banzai

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:12 PM

Thread about how homosexuals are handled in video gaming -->

90% of replies are "Ike isn't gay"

#44 Bluedoom

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:16 PM

To add on to the 90%:

Ike is asexual guys. This is fact. xD

Also Heather's most likely lesbian. I wanna think this is fact too.

Soren may be gay(sexually) or just clings to Ike since Ike's the only one who protects him. Put yourself in Soren's shoes for a change, you'd know why Soren clings to Ike so dearly.

Also I dunno what to think of Lucius x Raven. It seems like Ike x Soren but... :S

#45 Elieson

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:24 PM

Thread about how homosexuals are handled in video gaming -->

90% of replies are "Ike isn't gay"


I expected so much more from you, Folcore Black.

#46 General Banzai

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:57 PM

I expected so much more from you, Folcore Black.

I'm simply pleased that I'm not the only one who receives this inane treatment from you guys

#47 Fenrir

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:59 PM

What? Is that true? I've never heard this before ... :/:

Indeed it is, don't have the source for it but I'm certain of it.

I'm pretty sure Stefan "creates" a country regardless of who he supports with.

Indeed he does, but only Soren can create said country with him. Due to his branded-ness.




EDIT: Didn't see this at first.

I don't see this conversation anywhere in the script for PoR and nowhere in the conversations with Ike and Aimee in RD I can find on Youtube. So...pretty sure you just made it up. Which really goes along with kdanger's comment of "assumed heterosexuality", you even remember a conversation that didn't actually happen...perhaps because of a desire that Ike be heterosexual?

I could have sworn it happened. It might not of been with Aimee, but one of those conversations with Soren or Shinnon about her. It was a remark saying something along the lines of 'I don't want to make any commitment now because I'm young and a military leader, rather keep my options open and commit down the line'

Also, you made comments(As did others who you backed) which implied that you think I'm just saying this because I don't want Ike to be gay. I am just going with the argument that makes more sense to me.

Edited by Fenrir, 11 April 2012 - 12:09 AM.


#48 Charlie

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:05 AM

Indeed he does, but only Soren can create said country with him. Due to his branded-ness.

... Huh? Soren doesn't have a paired ending with anyone but Ike. His unpaired ending even says he didn't use his tactical prowess for anyone but Ike. Likewise, Stefan's ending doesn't change regardless of his supports.

#49 Fenrir

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:19 AM

... Huh? Soren doesn't have a paired ending with anyone but Ike. His unpaired ending even says he didn't use his tactical prowess for anyone but Ike. Likewise, Stefan's ending doesn't change regardless of his supports.

Not exactly reliable.
MAJOR SPOILER KIDS!


Yeah, can't find shit on it right now, 100% sure it's true. Talk to Rfof or someone else who knows their FE10 shit.(I claim to be on this, but in reality i'm probably just a dumbass)

#50 General Banzai

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:24 AM

Not exactly reliable.
MAJOR SPOILER KIDS!



Yeah, can't find shit on it right now, 100% sure it's true. Talk to Rfof or someone else who knows their FE10 shit.(I claim to be on this, but in reality i'm probably just a dumbass)

It's not true

#51 Esau of Isaac

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:26 AM

I've actually talked about this with my friends in Japan, and from what I've seen, that isn't the case. Homosexuality is generally accepted in fiction, largely due to its heavy romanticisation (I just made that word up): homo relationships and hetero relationships are practically the same; one person ends up being the "girl" in the relationship and the other the "man" (excuse me for gender stereotyping). They're often born out of admiration for each other rather than sexual feelings, stemming from ancient Samurai practises which are a complete misrepresentation of relationships altogether.

Reality, however, is quite different. Homo-relationships of most kinds are still quite uncommon and seen as a little weird, and people aren't as uncaring about them as you might think.

This is correct, as far as I can tell through conversations with Japanese natives and personal research. The fact that pairings are popular in fiction does not dictate how the public perceives it. Japan's culture as a whole is still quite insular compared to western standards, and as a whole Japanese society certainly puts effort into stamping out unwholesome individuality.

It could be argued, actually, that rampant representation of homosexual pairings both male and female in manga form is a direct result of escapism from the disapproving eyes of Japanese society. In any case, one should not allow themselves to be misled regarding Japan's interpretation of the many social conflicts that westerners face. It is not by any means an idyllic realm of accepting brothers and sisters; they are, like everyone else, a country of conflicting ideologies.

#52 -Cynthia-

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 01:32 AM

I could have sworn it happened. It might not of been with Aimee, but one of those conversations with Soren or Shinnon about her. It was a remark saying something along the lines of 'I don't want to make any commitment now because I'm young and a military leader, rather keep my options open and commit down the line'


Only thing I can find with regards to Ike wanting to settle down is Aimee herself saying that he should after the war is over...but if Aimee were canon on Ike'a feelings we'd have a different story.

Also, you made comments(As did others who you backed) which implied that you think I'm just saying this because I don't want Ike to be gay. I am just going with the argument that makes more sense to me.


People tend to believe what they prefer to be true.

#53 Rehab

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 06:44 AM

That's a bit of an unproven assumption, regardless. Not everybody cares that much.

#54 Snapdragon

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 03:23 PM

But I think it's silly to assume that a character is gay simply for really enjoying the company of another of the same gender.


I think its silly to assume that two characters are straight simply for enjoying the company of another of the opposite gender but it seems to be perfectly acceptable for people to do that. Even in real life.


I've actually talked about this with my friends in Japan, and from what I've seen, that isn't the case. Homosexuality is generally accepted in fiction, largely due to its heavy romanticisation (I just made that word up): homo relationships and hetero relationships are practically the same; one person ends up being the "girl" in the relationship and the other the "man" (excuse me for gender stereotyping). They're often born out of admiration for each other rather than sexual feelings, stemming from ancient Samurai practises which are a complete misrepresentation of relationships altogether.

Reality, however, is quite different. Homo-relationships of most kinds are still quite uncommon and seen as a little weird, and people aren't as uncaring about them as you might think.


I think she might have meant in more of a romantic two-girl friendship sort of sense. So romantic, but not expected to be sexual. Admittedly I know nothing about Japan's culture, so take this with a grain of salt.


I could have sworn it happened. It might not of been with Aimee, but one of those conversations with Soren or Shinnon about her. It was a remark saying something along the lines of 'I don't want to make any commitment now because I'm young and a military leader, rather keep my options open and commit down the line'


Hmmm... I honestly don't remember Ike ever saying anything of that nature. I can't see where he would have said such a line, either, since Ike doesn't seem to notice that girls blatantly flirt with him. It either goes right over his head, or he actively ignores it. If he did, though, unless he specified "wife" there is no reason "commitment" couldn't refer to a relationship with another guy. And, since he leaves Tellius either way, I can't see how he would be settling down with anyone not named Soren/Ranulf. Unless he... like, settles down with some woman abroad and makes his companion, who willingly made the commitment to leave the country with him, a third wheel. Which seems like a jerk move if you ask me. Especially if said companion is Soren.

#55 Florina Stark

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 04:17 PM

I always figured Ike was asexual. Posted Image I've said before and I'll say it again: a lack of interest in women =/= an interest in men. Ike has no interest in forming relationships with women, nor can he be paired with a female at the end of RD -- unlike the lords before him, who pretty clearly have a woman in his life. He leaves the continent either alone, or with Soren and Ranulf. And yet ... does this lack of female endings mean that Ike is gay? There really is no proof that he's gay. He may be closer to Soren (and his male companions) more so than he is with women who may or may have been interested in him, but that's not really proof in itself. Does he show interest in men? Because all Ike seems to be interested in (to me) is fighting, fighting, and to a much lesser extent food. I suspect Ike is just not interested in relationships, whether with women or with men. Whatever is between him and, say, Soren seems to be just platonic.


I think Ike is asexual. He finds the idea of women digging him kinda creepy. He expresses friendship with most of the ladies actually. With Mia, its a friendly competitive thing. With Titania, its a big sister/mum figure/commander thing. With Elincia, its a employee/employer/friend type thing. It seems with Elincia, she sorta kinda has some feeling there but when Geoffrey starts showing up, she kinda doesnt have that attitude with Ike anymore. Ike makes it rather clear that hes not interested that way. He plans on leaving court at the end of PoR. Huge indicator that nah, hes not into Elincia. (He does, however respect her a great deal)

With Ranulf, Ike is just really good friends with him. They both have a mutual respect for each other and can open up to each other more easily about just...stuff in general. Ike says in RD that Ranulf can come and bitch and moan about Skrimir and anything else if he wants. Thats just two guys being friends. With Soren...its a little more complicated. While im not opposed to them having a potentially gay relationship (because it would make sense especially on Soren's end.), somehow i doubt thats what Ike's all about there. Prior to A support in PoR, Ike more or less sees Soren as this really smart friend. Soren is pretty sharp and helps Ike with various things. When they support, Ike starts seeing Soren open up more and show more emotion. The C support has Ike saying: "Despite what the others say, deep down youre just a big softy." Sorens like "excuse me?" Shocked that Ike was catching on to this. This is why he feels he can come to Ike about his past. (something he had to get off his chest and couldnt with anyone else.) When Soren tells Ike about his past, Ike responds with "So what? That changes nothing." and Soren is like "holy crap..." and thus grows closer to Ike and the trust builds. In RD, in the secret convo, Soren tells Ike (and the player) about how they met. Ike begins to remember due to the memory charm lifting. At the end of that convo, Soren breaks down in tears. Ike comforts him. He says "Youre brilliant but when it comes to your emotions, yeah..." and gives him a hug. This could be interpreted as Ike having feelings for Soren or Ike comforting his friend. Their paired ending basically says Soren took off with him. "The only one he ever trusted." Doesnt say "love" but it could be thought that way. Since Soren just about hated or was indifferent to nearly everyone else, yeah. It could go both ways. I lean more toward "just friends" though.

How, is Florina/Hector one-sided? I like the coupling but I don't really remember tons of build up for either Florina------->Hector or Hector-------->Florina To some degree, it came off to me as being a canon crack paring.

Hector is the only guy Florina can support with. Its obvious shes very grateful to him for "saving" her from falling off her pegasus and out of the sky. She tries desperately throughout the supports to get enough nerve to tell him. This means she actually respects Hector enough to try to speak to him. She barely talks to any other men in the game. When she does finally spit it out, shes very pleased with herself and was all "I DID IT! I SAID IT!! YES!" (its fucking adorable) Hector is all "heh...i better keep an eye on you." They eventually get married and have a kid. (if they are paired.) Florina doesnt object to Hector saying he better look out for her at all. It implies shes no longer afraid of him at all. With Lyn, it seems more like close friends.


Sophia, while I'm not going to get into a discussion on whether Florina may be lesbian or not, I want to point out that her "I love you!" towards Lyn was not, to me, "plain as day in a context that completely screamed romance". I've heard girls say that to each other, when they're overexcited or just really happy about something. In other words, it did not stand out to me as anything romantic.

Agreed. It seemed to me that Florina loved Lyn as a best friend than anything else. It read to me: "I love you as a friend and ill help fight for you! Or serve!"

As for Raven and Lucius, yeah that actually does come off a bit...yeah. I think they both have feelings for each other. But Lucius can also get with Serra so *shrug*.

Overall i dont have an issue with this sort of thing popping up in games. What gets me is that some people have shipping goggles strapped to their faces and dont realize that things can be interpreted in various ways. Its not always "they are in love."

#56 Sangyul

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 04:22 PM

The thing about Soren and Ike is that it may well be one-sided, but ONLY one-sided. I can definitely see Soren having feelings for Ike and Ike only, making him "Ike"-sexual and not gay. (Because even if Ike were female, or if Soren were female, I think Soren would still feel the same way. It's because it's IKE, the first person who was nice to him.) But even if Soren does like Ike "that way", does Ike himself feel the same way? Or does Ike just see Soren as a companion? The thing is, I don't think Ike sees Soren as anything more than a close friend. All the "hints" between them just seem like friendship to me. There's really nothing in Ike's mannerisms that screams to me, "I'm a sexual being!"

#57 Florina Stark

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 04:29 PM

It could also be argued that Soren may not have those kinds of feelings at all and just cares about Ike (as a dear friend) because Ike is the only one who gave a shit. Soren does have a sense of humor (especially regarding the Ike/Aimee debacle) about Ike potentially having partners. Like, he teases Ike about it in PoR. "I got a wonderful present from your admirer, Ikey-poo!" and in RD hes like "NO DONT DO IT! ITS A TRAP! She'll spread it all over Tellius! Holy crap! You'll never live it down!" So its clear hes not like super jealous that Aimee digs Ike. So yeah, they could be platonic life partners. Someone whos madly in love with someone else isnt gonna be razzing that person about some girl digging them. ;): (most of the time...)

#58 Sangyul

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 04:36 PM

I'm just saying that if someone wanted to argue that Soren was gay for Ike or felt that way about Ike, it's probably a lot easier to argue it from that angle than by saying "Ike is gay." I personally don't think Soren's gay. I just think he cares strongly about Ike, regardless of "how" he feels about Ike. But when people try to argue that "Ike is gay; look at how he and Soren get along," I'd think that would say more about how Soren feels towards Ike than vice versa. Posted Image Still, I don't think the dialogue in the game gives me enough reason to believe that either Ike or Soren are gay.

#59 Agro

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 04:41 PM

I think she might have meant in more of a romantic two-girl friendship sort of sense. So romantic, but not expected to be sexual. Admittedly I know nothing about Japan's culture, so take this with a grain of salt.

Grain of salt taken. For the record, we were actually talking about romantic relationships versus romantic friendships, so both came up.

#60 Popo

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 05:50 PM

I think you guys are thinking too far into this. Most characters don't have their sexuality stated, and are easily left up to the player's imagination if they don't have marriages in their endings.


Precisely this. The beauty of all these characters and all these support conversations is that they reveal just enough to tease the player and encourage them to think about the relationships further, implying but almost never outwardly stating that something is one way or another. I tend to just call it as I see it personally; if I think that a character is straight, so be it, and if not, then I accept them as gay, and I don't take offense when someone disagrees with me. It's meant to be up for debate, in my opinion, and I think it's a lot more fun this way then to try and definitively classify a character by their sexuality.

She clings to Lyn in an adorable manner, and even says "I love you!" plain as day in a context that completely screamed romance to Lyn right at the conclusion of Lyn's arc.


Sophia, while I'm not going to get into a discussion on whether Florina may be lesbian or not, I want to point out that her "I love you!" towards Lyn was not, to me, "plain as day in a context that completely screamed romance". I've heard girls say that to each other, when they're overexcited or just really happy about something. In other words, it did not stand out to me as anything romantic.


I didn't see Florina's comments as romantic either, although my personal beliefs right out of the gate were that Lyn is straight, and that Florina has difficulty getting a hold on her androphobia because she lacks maturity as opposed to having homosexual tendencies.

--

Posted Image

I guess it's pretty plain as day that Merlinus is in love with Eliwood and Hector. Or, maybe he's just happy to be employed. ;3




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