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FE8: The Crash Hack!


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#41 shadowofchaos

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 01:02 PM

Also, Dancers doubling something via magic will freeze the game unless you turn battle animations for them off via the options menu.

Or modify the animation.

#42 Parrhesia

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 01:14 PM

Seth is now a General with the same bases (with the exceptions of A Axes but 0 Luck) but very low growths (15% HP, 10% STR/DEF/SPD, 5% everything else).

...And he's still the best unit in the game. Possibly after Franz, now.

#43 arvilino

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 01:22 PM

...And he's still the best unit in the game. Possibly after Franz, now.


Well Duessel is in the running as well now due to the 7 move Great Knights will have.

#44 OrangeCrush980

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:24 PM

HEY EVERYBODY CRASH HATES JEIGANS
wow isn't that a surprise
And if your response is "that's what jeigans are SUPPOSED to be" kindly fuck off.


Yeah, Seth is SUPPOSED to ruin FE8.

#45 franku

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 03:05 PM

Woah man Crash you have to do this. FE8 was super hard to begin with, you must make it easier!

#46 Anouleth

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 03:16 PM

And if you're going to fully unsexistify this, give us female everything there's a male version of and male everything there's a female version of. Don't halfass it.

Way to be demanding. Crash would have to come up with new animations and more than a few new characters in order to have female summoners, soldiers, brigands, berserkers, warriors, pupils, journeymen, fighters, warriors, pirates, priests, and male recruits, pegasus knights, falcoknights, troubadours, clerics, valkyries.

Warriors having the waterwalk means Warriors > Berzerkers unconditionally.

How so? Berserkers still have a critical boost and more speed on promotion.

This is balance? Assassins need to have a disadvantage compared to Rogues; if both can Pick and Assassins can Lethalize Rogues become utterly redundant and That's Not Balance.

Rogues have 1 more move. That's a pretty significant gap!

Rogues stealing equipped things is ...just ...why. Half the enemies in the game (the Slayable half) have weapons that would just break the game if you could Steal them (dark bishop moulder legit lol) or Rogues would still be < Assassins because there's nothing to steal except Irons for most of the game. That's Not Balance.

Well, Crash has already said that Stone will be removed from the game. It would be pretty silly to have rogues be capable of stealing Rotten Claws though!

Merc/Ranger removal: POINT #1. I don't care that you don't find it unproductive; you should always have a reason for doing things beyond "I feel like it." I will hammer this into you as much as is necessary.
Journeyman to Brigand is asinine from a canon standpoint and pointless from a gameplay standpoint (oooh it's a pirate with like an extra con and no waterwalk?).

Well, the distinction between Pirate and Fighter is already pretty fine. It's 1 point of CON and waterwalk...

Ross as a Mercenary would be cooler I think.

Super Pupil to Monk is just ...why. Again, same as the above one.

I like the idea, personally. It has a certain symmetry; Ewan can pick between Dark, Anima and Light. It's not like Shaman!Ewan ever made that much sense in the first place...

So Blades are, what, Swords+? It sounds like they have no appreciable downsides compared to Swords anymore (let's make their positives more positive and their negatives less negative!). That's Not Balance.

They're less common and more expensive, and require a higher rank to wield. Like Silver Swords or something.

Jesus, no. Suddenly Artur is dishing 1RKOs on any monster ever.

How is that different from before...?

Probably the worst idea in the whole bunch. Do you realize that after a few levels Myrrh 1RKOs everything? Do you really want players to have an infinite use 1-range 1RKO-everything-and-never-die flying machine? That's Not Balance.

It's not like Myrrh will reasonably run out of dragonstone uses in the main game anyway! I don't think that Myrrh is broken with 50 uses, so why should she be broken with infinite?

Ooh, you've hit a point (the point is that luck sucks). Except, you're fixing it wrong. People would still probably vendor the Goddess Icon if it gave +5 LCK because Luck still sucks.

I wouldn't. +5 luck is pretty significant.

2 Luck, 5 Luck, 7 Luck, it still sucks. Fix Luck, the statboosters are fine.

Luck doesn't need "fixing".

HEY EVERYBODY CRASH HATES JEIGANS
wow isn't that a surprise
And if your response is "that's what jeigans are SUPPOSED to be" kindly fuck off.

So... Jeigans are supposed to be capable of soloing the game?

Maybe you should take a look at Jagen and Arran, because yeah, some Jeigans ARE supposed to be like that!

Why does Lute have higher bases?

Because she's a bad unit right now who isn't worth using for anything other than a staffbot.

Luck still sucks, dude.

Uh, it really doesn't?

Also, if you give them higher bases, they're going to be ...regular Tier 1 units with higher growths and extra levels to grow? That's Not Balance.

Crash only said their bases and growths would be improved on what they currently are. So I'm imagining that they'd have growths on par with normal tier 1 units, and bases such that they're not at risk of being ORKOed in their first chapter.

Do you not understand what an Armor Knight is?

hey look it's draug meg gatrie tauroneo

all armours with good growths and nobody threw a hissy fit and nobody's cat died

Oh so you're buffing Marisa a lot AND giving her a PRF weapon. That's a good, balanced idea.

yeah because marisa is already such a powerhouse
/sarcasm

She's a Dancer.

I remind you that of all the dancers in FE more than half have been able to wield weapons. If anything, GBA Dancers are the exception, not the rule.

#47 Integrity

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 04:17 PM

Way to be demanding. Crash would have to come up with new animations and more than a few new characters in order to have female summoners, soldiers, brigands, berserkers, warriors, pupils, journeymen, fighters, warriors, pirates, priests, and male recruits, pegasus knights, falcoknights, troubadours, clerics, valkyries.


Point granted. That was a bit of hyperbole, ill-targeted.

How so? Berserkers still have a critical boost and more speed on promotion.


tbh I forgot about the critical boost. As it stands, though, Berzerkers have a whopping +1 SPD on promotion. I hardly find that worth nothing.
You could say that they have better caps and yeah, I'd agree.

Rogues have 1 more move. That's a pretty significant gap!


This is Crash, Annie. MOV is overrated, remember?

Well, Crash has already said that Stone will be removed from the game. It would be pretty silly to have rogues be capable of stealing Rotten Claws though!


Fair point on Stone, but Demon Surge and whatnot would all still be Stealable. Or, more pertinently, Shadowshot would be. He could rebalance them to have uses, but I still think it's a poor idea all told.

Well, the distinction between Pirate and Fighter is already pretty fine. It's 1 point of CON and waterwalk...


It's true, so why would we have another class that's mostly the same as the two that are already there, especially if it entails the same (?) promotion options as one of the other two?

Ross as a Mercenary would be cooler I think.


I wholeheartedly concur.

I like the idea, personally. It has a certain symmetry; Ewan can pick between Dark, Anima and Light. It's not like Shaman!Ewan ever made that much sense in the first place...


Honestly, I think Ewan's promotion path is just a huge load of fuck as it stands, so I guess Monk wouldn't make as much difference as I seem to think.

They're less common and more expensive, and require a higher rank to wield. Like Silver Swords or something.


Yes, but they're a whole *class* of Silver Swords with hierarchy. Sure, as it stands, Blades sorta blow overall but I'd rather see something good done with them rather than "make them a higher tier of swords".

How is that different from before...?


Um, what? Pre-promotion, Artur most certainly isn't 1RKOing all monsters. Once he hits Bishop, the change would be irrelevant because he'd have Slayer. The only thing it would do, I guess, would be to make Saleh ...even more better?

It's not like Myrrh will reasonably run out of dragonstone uses in the main game anyway! I don't think that Myrrh is broken with 50 uses, so why should she be broken with infinite?


Because Myrrh becomes essentially invincible once she has levels? I grant you, it really only matters if we care at all about the Creature Campaign (I managed to burn through Myrrh's 50 once. ever.) but if we're only doing it for the main campaign and fuck CC why change it to infinite?

I wouldn't. +5 luck is pretty significant.

Luck doesn't need "fixing".

Uh, it really doesn't?


That was a pretty terrible example, I'll be honest. But besides increasing the +2 LCK to something bigger, what else needs changed about statboosters? That was more the point.

So... Jeigans are supposed to be capable of soloing the game?


No, but he's nerfing Seth into oblivion mostly out of spite - or at least that's what it looks like. Hell, I could be wrong.

Maybe you should take a look at Jagen and Arran, because yeah, some Jeigans ARE supposed to be like that!


I didn't say that was untrue, I said it didn't *matter*. I'm sorry if I'd rather not see a game explicitly balanced around archetypes.

Because she's a bad unit right now who isn't worth using for anything other than a staffbot.


Fair.

Crash only said their bases and growths would be improved on what they currently are. So I'm imagining that they'd have growths on par with normal tier 1 units, and bases such that they're not at risk of being ORKOed in their first chapter.

• The trainees have higher bases and growths (Ross slightly so, Ewan and Amelia EXTREMELY so) and they all will have VERY Luck (including 100%+ for all three of them).


Maybe I just bought into the hyperbole. /shrug

hey look it's draug meg gatrie tauroneo

all armours with good growths and nobody threw a hissy fit and nobody's cat died


EDIT: I presumed FE11!Draug here and FE10!Gat/T-Ron.
Draug has a 40% SPD growth. It's better than Gilliam's 30, but it isn't tremendous.
Meg is terrible.
Gatrie is just amazing like that.
Tauroneo's a fair point.
That's also 4 armors (3 from the same game) out of how many?
Anyhow, I'm not throwing a fit about improving Gilliam of all things. I think he could stand to use more STR and SKL rather than SPD - keep him slowish.

yeah because marisa is already such a powerhouse
/sarcasm


yeah marisa's awful now but I think he's going way overboard with PRF weapons here.

I remind you that of all the dancers in FE more than half have been able to wield weapons. If anything, GBA Dancers are the exception, not the rule.


I remind you that that quote was about Tethys' stats, not her ability to fight. Sylvia's fighting stats are pretty damned awful too.
And I still think that Light Magic for Dancers is an awful idea, which is why I suggested Swords like all those other Dancers you mentioned.

EDIT2: Wait, hang on. Doing a quick count by character:
Feena, Sylvia, Leen, Laylea, Lara, Feena again could equip weapons
Lalam, Elphin, Ninian, Nils, Reyson, Leanne, Rafiel could not equip weapons
By game:
FE3, 4, 5, 12 could
FE6, 7, 8, 9, 10 couldn't
Even by generation (SNES/DS could, GBA/3D couldn't) it's a half split. Where are you getting more than half? Are you only counting literal dancers?
EDIT3: Or are you counting the Cards as weapons for Reyson/Leanne/Rafiel, even though it's not technically equipping weapons?

Edited by Integrity, 11 April 2012 - 04:52 PM.


#48 Klokinator

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 04:42 PM

I rebalanced all the Blade weapons for FEPS, actually. I only ever used Iron Blade in GBA FE and the others were ridiculously hard to obtain.

Iron Sword:
Rank: E
Uses: 45
Wgt: 5
Atk: 5
Hit: 90
Crit: 0
Exp per use: 1

Iron Blade:
Rank: D
Uses: 35
Wgt: 6
Atk: 7
Hit: 80
Crit: 5
Exp per use: 2

Steel Sword:
Rank: D
Uses: 30
Wgt: 8
Atk: 9
Hit: 75
Crit: 0
Exp per use: 1

Steel Blade:
Rank: C
Uses: 25
Wgt: 10
Atk: 11
Hit: 70
Crit: 10
Exp per use: 2

Silver Sword:
Rank: B
Uses: 20
Wgt: 12
Atk: 13
Hit: 80
Crit: 0
Exp per use: 2

Silver Blade:
Rank: A
Uses: 15
Wgt: 14
Atk: 17
Hit: 70
Crit: 15
Exp per use: 3





In this manner, Blades are more expensive, but give pretty good weapon experience, deal much more damage, and have slight crit chances as well. To balance out their power, they'll also be a bit more expensive, but I haven't balanced prices yet.

Feel free to use it as a template, if you like.

#49 Anouleth

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 04:51 PM

Um, what? Pre-promotion, Artur most certainly isn't 1RKOing all monsters. Once he hits Bishop, the change would be irrelevant because he'd have Slayer. The only thing it would do, I guess, would be to make Saleh ...even more better?

I guess it only really makes a difference in Chapter 4...

Saleh ORKOes most midgame monsters already. The only difference is now that he can OHKO with Purge.

Because Myrrh becomes essentially invincible once she has levels? I grant you, it really only matters if we care at all about the Creature Campaign (I managed to burn through Myrrh's 50 once. ever.) but if we're only doing it for the main campaign and fuck CC why change it to infinite?

Because this is crash's hack and if he wants to care about CC he can?

That was a pretty terrible example, I'll be honest. But besides increasing the +2 LCK to something bigger, what else needs changed about statboosters? That was more the point.

Well, there's also Secret Books and Talismans, which I'd imagine would be buffed to +3 or +4 each.

No, but he's nerfing Seth into oblivion mostly out of spite - or at least that's what it looks like. Hell, I could be wrong.

If he was nerfing characters he hated, where is the L'arachel nerf? I think that of all the character nerfs one could make, a nerf for Seth is the most obvious and the last thing that anyone should complain about.

I didn't say that was untrue, I said it didn't *matter*. I'm sorry if I'd rather not see a game explicitly balanced around archetypes.

Does it matter? Crash is clearly the kind of dude that operates off feelings instead of thinking rationally, but most of his feelings in this situation seem to be in the correct direction: nerf Seth, buff trainees.

That's also 4 armors (3 from the same game) out of how many?
Anyhow, I'm not throwing a fit about improving Gilliam of all things. I think he could stand to use more STR and SKL rather than SPD - keep him slowish.

Fair enough.

yeah marisa's awful now but I think he's going way overboard with PRF weapons here.

Perhaps.

I remind you that that quote was about Tethys' stats, not her ability to fight. Sylvia's fighting stats are pretty damned awful too.
And I still think that Light Magic for Dancers is an awful idea, which is why I suggested Swords like all those other Dancers you mentioned.

Fair enough, but there's not much point in giving Tethys any weapon if she'll still have virtually no strength or skill.

#50 Integrity

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 04:59 PM

I guess it only really makes a difference in Chapter 4...

Saleh ORKOes most midgame monsters already. The only difference is now that he can OHKO with Purge.


On my inspection, yeah, I think you're right on that one.

Because this is crash's hack and if he wants to care about CC he can?


But if he doesn't care about CC there's no point in making Myrrh's Dragonstone infinite and if he does then making Myrrh's Dragonstone infinite (or, God help us, 1-2 range) is a bad idea. Maybe I shouldn't care about the "pointless" changes.

Well, there's also Secret Books and Talismans, which I'd imagine would be buffed to +3 or +4 each.


Secret Books would have to be to keep them in line with Goddess Icons. Talismans ...I never had a problem with Talismans being +2 RES, but maybe.

If he was nerfing characters he hated, where is the L'arachel nerf? I think that of all the character nerfs one could make, a nerf for Seth is the most obvious and the last thing that anyone should complain about.


He doesn't hate L'Arachel for some reason. I don't get it, really.
That said, I'm not objecting to a Seth nerf. God knows the guy could use it. I'm objecting to the fact that he's nerfing him way further into the ground than he really needs to be, either because he's Seth (in which case I disagree) or because he's a Jeigan and "should be that way" (in which case I disagree).

Does it matter? Crash is clearly the kind of dude that operates off feelings instead of thinking rationally, but most of his feelings in this situation seem to be in the correct direction: nerf Seth, buff trainees.


And I'd like to see it be done in some more imaginative way than "make trainees like est, make seth like jeigan."
Maybe I expect too much of the kid.

Fair enough, but there's not much point in giving Tethys any weapon if she'll still have virtually no strength or skill.


If he gives her Light Magic, she's getting effective bonus on monsters since this is CrashFE, do remember. She'd be a decent fighter against monsters and a pretty shitty one against humans. If he gave her decent stats on top of that, she'd be a better anti-monster fighter than some of your actual fighters.

#51 Scarlet

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 05:04 PM

Also, not bothering with any instead of "Why?", "That's not balance" or "What's the point?", none of those are helpful.

I can't offer constructive feedback if I don't understand what you intend to do with any given change.


FOW gives us irritating, unpleasant and downright nerve-wracking guesswork.
Status Staffs and Stone give us horrible luck-basedness (as opposed to good luck-basedness... which is already a controversial thing).
Lockpicks give us a terrible and unnecessary limit on the capabilities of an already screwed over class. BTW, did Thieves break the game in Tellius or Akaneia when they didn't need these? Nope.

- FOW forces you to be more careful, but you can increase your view with thieves, torches and the torch staff (which gives staff users decent Exp btw). You don't have to guess anything if you're clever about your torches and unit movement. It also makes units like Gilliam more useful, because you can more easily just move them forward without having to worry as much about them dying to something you didn't see.
- Status staves may be annoying, but they can be dodged and/or simply cured. Having two staff users with a Restore each makes you basically invincible to status staves. Stone is annoying because it's harder to dodge, but light magic keeps you relatively safe from it, and again, you can just cure it.
- It's not like you can't just steal/buy new lockpicks if you run out... ...though honestly, I wouldn't actually mind lockpicks being removed, but it'd likely make the rogue class obsolete.

I hate those chapters, and a lot of people hate the last two. Besides I already mentioned a buff to enemy stats and stuff for difficulty and these chapters did difficulty wrong anyway.

But you hating them is not a reason to make them easier. I like all of the chapters mentioned because they're more challenging.
Why did they do difficulty "wrong"?
- Chapter 5 has somewhat tough bandit reinforcements and Joshua. Joshua won't attack Natasha, so recruiting him is not a problem. Everything else in this chapter is standard fare.
- Chapter 6 has FOW. You can buy torch staves on the world map before doing this chapter.
- Chapter 11B has FOW. You have torch staves.
- Chapter 14B has status staves. You have restore staves.


It's fucking sexist! They can be "diverse" without bringing their plumbing into it.

But those caps just reflect the growths of the characters to some degree. Should all characters get the same growths because them having different strengths and weaknesses is "sexist"?

But it would be nice and it fits. Also, it goes with the diversity thing (and does it a lot better than that sexism bullshit) by giving them something before promotion that Mercs don't have. Mostly, I just don't see the problem.

It might be fitting for the class, but a Crt bonus should remain a bonus reserved for promoted classes. I'd suggest to do it like FE10 does and give them a lower Crt bonus than swordmasters, but I believe having multiple Crt boni of differing amounts requires ASM.
You can make myrmidons more diverse from mercs without giving them a Crt bonus. Give mercs a bit less Spd, give Myrmidons a bit more luck. That way myrmidons are quick and dodge well while mercs are slower, but bulkier.

No it's not.

As I'm trying to explain, archers being unpromoted is the problem. See my argument for the myrmidon.

Yes they do.

If you're so convinced that assassins need a Crt bonus in addition to their silencer skill, surely you can explain your reasoning? I don't see why. If you give them a Crt bonus, they're just swordmasters that will OHKO everything regardless of their DEF half the time they crit, making swordmasters' slightly better Str cap mostly worthless. How is that balanced?

I wasn't aware of that, do they really?

Indeed they do. It's one of the reasons I actually like picking that class, although it's mostly for novelty. She's better as a paladin regardless.

Don't see the problem, sorry. And apparently having all three isn't good enough to offset Staffs anyway...

All other Crt bonus classes are specialists (they only have one weapon type); it wouldn't fit with the theme.
Besides, yes, currently, super pupil is mostly useless because light magic somewhat sucks, dark magic is terrible and staves are awesome. But you said you were going to buff both light and dark magic, so that shouldn't be an issue anymore afterwards?

Not all variety is good variety

You don't have to like something for it to be balanced, either.

Yes they do. And no, Bows won't be enough.

Why?

Fair enough but I really hate Merc to Ranger, that's the main thing.

Is this supposed to be a balance hack or a "I take out everything I don't like" hack? If you want it to be the former, you'll just have to deal with it. If it's the latter, this entire argument is pointless and we're both wasting our time.

GKs need higher ranks than Paladins

Don't forget that GKs already get axes, whereas paladins don't.

Dancers could fight in Akaneia and Jugdral, do you have a problem with that?

And they sucked extremely hard at fighting things, so people spent their time having them dance anyway.
Not that I mind dancers being able to defend themselves, but light magic would potentially make them actually competent fighters, which they aren't supposed to be. Maybe swords would work, but in any case, giving them weapons would require a custom animation.

Fair enough then, thanks. Didn't someone get past that though?

Not sure about that, I'm not following the hacking scene enough.

And I disagree.

Then surely you can explain how player units being able to have multiple S ranks instead of just one improves the game's balance?

Unnecessary diversity.

What's wrong with diversity? If I want a game where every unit is the same, I'll play Advance Wars, kthx.

They're too heavy for anyone but Mercs and don't offer a lot in return.

That's not true. Paladins, Great Knights, Generals and Wyvern Lords can also rather comfortably wield most of them without (or with low) AS loss.
They offer much higher Mt than usual for swords.
As I said, the silver blade is kinda crappy, but...
I guess a slight buff wouldn't break them, but don't overdo it. Looking at them, a flat -2 Wt to all of them and maybe a +1 Mt to the steel and silver blade would probably work.

Good thing it can backfire! The only way it won't is if the user has 21 or more Luck. This would put more value on Luck (well, only for certain units but Luck needs everything it can get, it would seem...).

It would no longer backfire at 21 and more luck, giving a pretty broken weapon. Luck would be valuable enough if enemies simply had competent stats. Luck giving more hit (1 per point instead of 0.5) would probably also be good; you don't need to give axe users a broken weapon to make luck useful.


And that's the only thing it has on them. Not all monsters are magic users.

There are other ways to make light magic more useful than flat-out making it effective against like half the game.
You said you were going to buff light magic. Why not just decrease the weight of the tomes and increase light magic's Crt a bit more? (Also make the high-tier magic less absurdly expensive, I guess). That way light magic would become a bit better while staying true to its characteristics in that game (low Mt, but increases Crt). With tougher enemies, light magic's higher Crt would actually outweigh anima's higher Mt if you can't ORKO with either without scoring a crit, which light magic helps you with.

Fair enough. Perhaps an Axreaver or something though, I don't want him fucked over by Axeland in the beginning. Alternatively I could put less Axe users in the beginning, one of the two.

Giving him a normal axereaver is probably reasonable.

Well, for one thing the staboosters that boost "lesser" stats are often passed over or don't actually fix the problem for someone who has a proper problem with them. Mostly the first one in this game though, admittedly.
A lot of peopel sell the Goddess Icon, but maybe they wouldn't if it gave more Luck? Or maybe it would but at least it might be worth something.

Secret books and goddess icons are mostly sold because Skl and Luk in this game do hardly anything significant. If hitting things were more important because enemies had higher Avd and/or weapons in general were less accurate, secret books would become more useful. If enemies had more Skl and used weapons with a slight (5 or so) Crt bonus more often, luck would be more important.

Fair enough, but it doesn't need to be as low as it is.

Not quite, I guess, but a slight buff should do it. Just don't overdo it. Maybe one or two points?
Consider how Oswin in FE7 started with 5 Spd (at Lv9) and was a good unit regardless.

No, it's "Let's give something to Marisa so she can make up for Joshua's enormous availability lead.". I'll admit that might be overkill but she does need noticeably better stats, availability is worth a lot in this one.

She does need to be buffed, but yeah, making her completely better in everything is exaggerated. You could keep her current strengths and weaknesses and simply boost her base level (adjusting her base stats accordingly, of course). If she started at like Lv12 or something, she'd not only be more capable of actually dealing with the enemies, she could also early-promote to fix her remaining issues if so desired.
Well, maybe boost her strength a bit, by two points or something. Her job is to kill things, so she should be able to do just that with some amount of competence.

I disagree. I think they'll need more than that.

Are you sure you're appreciating them enough for their strengths and still feel they're too weak?
Dozla has somewhat shitty offense, but that's just because he doesn't double much. If he does double, he isn't half-bad (which is why I suggested to boost his Spd by two points). Dozla's real strength is his tankiness, though. Don't make him too good - the likes of Duessel trivialize the game pretty hard as it is.
Regarding Syrene, on second thought, maybe increase her base level (and stats accordingly) in addition to giving her more HP? Her bases themselves and her growths are decent enough, she just comes underleveled near the end of the game. Take her Lv8 or maybe Lv10 stats, slap on +7 HP or something and you've got a perfectly decent unit.

I meant to say OFFENSIVE stats. I thought she had no STR or SKL in the original because she couldn't attack, but she can now so she'll need those.

Okay then.


Even with the use of other staves it's very difficult for them to approach the level of dedicated combat units. I think that FEDS staff exp is good enough; DoF went too far by adding a flat +10 exp.

I guess. Although FEDS staff Exp does become lower with level. I think it starts out at like 17 or something for Heal; maybe something like 14 or 15 would work.

Super Pupil is quite frankly, one of the worst promotion options in the game. No staves and poor CON, in exchange for what; useless light magic? Or semi-useless dark magic? I guess if light magic and dark magic are going to be useful, it might be OP, but I doubt it.

Currently, yes. But if he's going to buff light and dark, having all of them available might actually make the super pupil useful. Like, Nosferatu-tanking can be awesome, but at times (Stone, Shadowshot) you want to avoid getting hit in the first place, which light magic is good for. And I guess if light magic gets more Crt, it might also be useful to have a shot at KOing things if you can't KO with anything else. And anima... Well... uh...

And in FE6/7, secondary weapon types were useless except in a few cases.

Are they even supposed to be super-useful? They allow you to get WTA if you wanted to, but if you have a bad weapon rank in that weapon type, you have to potentially sacrifice your offense for the defense bonus.
I guess this one can go either way, and ultimately comes down to preference.

If you think that D Rank Axes is going to make Garcia obsolete, you're stupid. D ranks can't use Killers, or Reavers, or Silvers, or the all-important S Rank weapons.

No, but a D rank is that much closer to a C rank for all those decently useful weapons than an E rank.

I'm not really sure how it's out of Neimi or Innes' character for them to make melee attacks. After all, Neimi can already make melee attacks as a Ranger.

I worded that badly, that's not what I was trying to say. Mainly it doesn't fit with their class, is my point. Archers are your distance attackers. If you want them to have melee attacks to fall back on, just give them E swords or something.

Uh, so what? Having WTA against gorgons isn't really that great; the extra avoid is nice, but it's unlikely to make the difference between ORKO and 2RKO. Certainly, Sage is currently inferior to Mage Knight, so it would be nice for Light magic to be more meaningful.

I like WTA because of the defense bonus, not because of the offense bonus.
That said, as I wrote above, I agree that light magic could use a buff, but making it effective against half the game is not a good way to do that.

I don't know if you noticed, but Marisa is a shit character and needs a buff. Don't tell me you think Marisa is good as she is?

There's a difference between buffing a character to make it reasonably usable, and making it so good that it suddenly becomes one of the best units. Flat-out making her better than Joshua in everything just seems exaggerated.

Myrrh isn't broken, sorry.

Not Myrrh. Her dragonstone.
I mean, do we really need an infinite-use "I ORKO/OHKO everything and make Myrrh nigh-invincible" weapon? It may be mostly insignificant for the main story because there aren't very many enemies left at that point anyway, but supposedly, there are people who actually play the creature campaign.

They... really aren't?

I do prefer +7 HP on a low-HP unit to +2 Def on a low-Def unit. Maybe that's just me.

Uh, in dondon's playthrough even though Seth was still good, he did falter against midgame bosses and promoted enemies. This Seth is going to be worse, since he won't have the benefit of 8 move.

Still, should he be able to roflstomp the earlygame or just make it significantly easier? I mean, putting bosses in the earlygame chapters is mostly pointless if Seth can just ORKO them like everything else (or almost OHKO them with his silver lance).
Maybe this one ultimately comes down to preference as well.

Edited by Shade of Shadow, 11 April 2012 - 05:21 PM.


#52 Thor Odinson

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 05:10 PM

But those caps just reflect the growths of the characters to some degree. Should all characters get the same growths because them having different strengths and weaknesses is "sexist"?


Counterexample: Dorothy vs Wolt like I stated earlier, where at max level Dorothy would have higher str than Wolt not considering caps. Let the characters grow out on their own accord. If two male characters or two female characters of the same class can have the same caps and still be different (two fighters or two pegs, for example, in single-sex classes), I don't see a male and female character would need different caps to be different. Bases and growths do differentiation well enough as is, and I'm hoping that Crash has enough sense to not let everyone cap most stats aka FE10.

Edited by Luminescent Blade, 11 April 2012 - 05:11 PM.


#53 Integrity

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 05:12 PM

But those caps just reflect the growths of the characters to some degree. Should all characters get the same growths because them having different strengths and weaknesses is "sexist"?


Dude, that was just a dumb thing to say. It would obviously be classist or something.

#54 CT075

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 05:32 PM

Mostly, it's just Nightmare and possibly FEditor stuff (I don't have these yet, but I will find them. Links would be handy but I think I could find them on my own.) but there are some things whrere I could see a need for ASM hacking, which could actually be a problem...


allow me to count

• Removing FOW, Status Staffs, Stone and Lockpicks because I hate them.
• I might even replace Pierce with that same crit bonus (I still haven't gotten over Saleh getting Pierced by Valter and dying in my first playthrough. :cry:)
• (disregarding the Speed and "must be an item, not a weapon" restrictions) but that could require ASM.
• Super Trainees don't have to be unlocked, if they're actually kept.
• I'd optimally like to change the way magic swords work and let people get unlimited S ranks (like FE6) but that could be tricky.
• [Devil Axe] WITHOUT THE THING THAT PREVENTS IT BECOMING 0%!

That's six.
and i actually know how to do all of these but i'm not spilling
Good luck with that.

Edited by Camtech, 11 April 2012 - 05:37 PM.


#55 Scarlet

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 05:34 PM

Fair enough on the class caps, I guess, although do remember this is FE8. Once you reach the creature campaign, bases and growths become mostly meaningless because you can just buy statboosters until all your stats are capped.
Though I guess that's not a very strong point, so whatever, I'll concede that point.

#56 Anouleth

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 05:41 PM

Having two staff users with a Restore each makes you basically invincible to status staves.

If that's the case, why does it matter that he's removing it if it's trivial to deal with?

I do prefer +7 HP on a low-HP unit to +2 Def on a low-Def unit. Maybe that's just me.

Sure, but on a unit that already has decent defense, +2DEF can make a big difference; more than +7HP would make.

allow me to count


That's six.
and i actually know how to do all of these but i'm not spilling
Good luck with that.

Uh, why do you need ASM to remove status weapons/staves, lockpicks and FoW? Or to replace Pierce with the critical bonus? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't it just a matter of removing the pierce ability and giving the crit bonus ability to Wyvern Knights in Nightmare?

And really, crash seems to understand that the other stuff he mentioned might not be possible.

Edited by Anouleth, 11 April 2012 - 05:42 PM.


#57 Jubby

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 05:43 PM

skills are hardcoded, you can't remove the pierce one

cam can tell you the rest

#58 Anouleth

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 05:46 PM

skills are hardcoded, you can't remove the pierce one

Oh, I see.

Still, you can work around that. Find some other class slot that's unused, or barely used, and "replace" Wyvern Knight with that one. Copy the animations, the stats, repoint the promotion and Valter's class, and give him the +crit class.

#59 CT075

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 05:52 PM

Uh, why do you need ASM to remove status weapons/staves, lockpicks and FoW? Or to replace Pierce with the critical bonus? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't it just a matter of removing the pierce ability and giving the crit bonus ability to Wyvern Knights in Nightmare?

And really, crash seems to understand that the other stuff he mentioned might not be possible.

weeeeell

you could very easily remove the status on staves/weapons manually - afaik there's no harm in that except that a lot of times weapons still have those properties for no explainable reason (like how purge actually hits defense). removing lockpicks is similar, removing them all from the game is more work than you'd think (there are a shitton of enemies with them over both modes, etc). FoW is probably the easiest to get rid of.

replacing pierce with the crit bonus is weird because occasionally i've seen a skill activate despite the fact that the class shouldn't have it- I've seen Hero Valter activate it, for example.

#60 Scarlet

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 05:58 PM

If that's the case, why does it matter that he's removing it if it's trivial to deal with?

It gives your staff users something to do other than heal HP or spam barrier all the time.
Removing them entirely would also remove a nice little toy (and extra Exp) for your own staff users, although admittedly, obtaining anything other than Silence is kinda difficult in FE8 outside the creature campaign.
Besides, if they just plain didn't exist, you could just barge into enemy territory with whatever units and not care. If they do exist, you at least have to apply some thought (you have to position your units in a way that your staff users can actually reach all units that could possibly be hit, for instance).

Sure, but on a unit that already has decent defense, +2DEF can make a big difference; more than +7HP would make.

I guess. HP works the same for both Def- and Res-based attacks though.

Edited by Shade of Shadow, 11 April 2012 - 06:12 PM.