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KoT Patch (Update, 4/27: New Shaman Unit Now In C6! C6 Poll Ends Soon!)


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Poll: KoT Patch (Update, 4/27: New Shaman Unit Now In C6! C6 Poll Ends Soon!) (29 member(s) have cast votes)

Which Features Should Be Implemented in C6?

  1. A) Make boss a theme, replace more units with shamans! (10 votes [27.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.03%

  2. B) Buff up boss and nearby entourage, place spider further back! (14 votes [37.84%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.84%

  3. C) Heavy fog (shorter Fog of War sight distance), give Natasha 15 Use Torch in C5! (1 votes [2.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.70%

  4. D) Monster reinforcements! (8 votes [21.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.62%

  5. E) Your own idea! (Please post it) (4 votes [10.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.81%

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#1 Kngt_Of_Titania

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:18 AM

Update!
While finishing testing on C5x, I've noticed unused animations for Shaman(F) and Druid(F). Since the poll in C6 looks to favor making it a partially shaman themed chapter, and because Knoll comes so late, I will add a recruitable female shaman in C6! The initial splice, which is the first I've ever done, is now done (or at least the second draft):
Posted Image

For now, her planned name is Cassandra (or Cassie if the former doesn't fit). I'd be glad to let any more experienced spriters touch it up if necessary; proper credit will be given, of course.

I'm STILL playing through my patch from Prologue to C5x, which means updated pictures for every chapter.

Introduction:

So, after playing FE4 Shin style and loving it, I've been inspired to make a Shin-style patch for FE8, where I'm basically going to balance characters and buff the difficulty. I mainly chose this installment because it needs the difficulty increase the most and because the branching promotions and skills give me more options for balancing. At this point, the patch is not out yet (although constantly in production), and I've only balanced up to C5 right now. I'll probably release my first version once I get C6 done, but the post is mainly so people can give feedback on the changes I have planned and possible ideas for balancing I can use.

It's my first hack, and a balancing patch allows me to work with a basic knowledge of Nightmare. I'll be doing more interesting changes as I ease into Fire Emblem ROM hacking/editing. Every chapter so far has been alpha-tested by me and I'm rather confident competent Fire Emblem players should be able to beat them without tremendous issues, although it will be a challenge. If not, I'll always adjust the difficulty.


Chapter Sneak Peeks:
[spoiler='Prologue']Posted Image
Seth, are you feeling under the weather? You're not *quite* as awesome as I remember you...

Posted Image
Wow, nothing like a bad-ass O'Neill to drive home the point that this isn't vanilla FE8. Perhaps Seth should take on this guy...[/spoiler]

[spoiler='Chapter 1']Posted Image
My god! The soldiers are as strong as the rest of the units!

Posted Image
Yes, he gets an axereaver. Yes, Gilliam is now an awesome unit. No, I'm not always this merciful.

Posted Image
Oh well, Seth can take care of business...

Posted Image
...Or maybe not. Eirika? Eirika! Get your ass (and your rapier) over here![/spoiler]

[spoiler='Chapter 2']Posted Image
New and improved Ross...now isn't terrible at base!



Posted Image
...I think he might have inherited his awesome from his father.


Posted Image
There's a new merc on the block! Seth isn't happy.


Posted Image
SHHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT. Should've checked for reaver weapons.

Posted Image
At least the boss doesn't have a reav---COME ON! CURSE YOU, ME!
[/spoiler]


[spoiler='Chapter 3']Posted Image
Neimi has bad bases.

Posted Image
OH SHIT ITS A BOLTING -- WAIT, NVM.

Posted Image
Colm's bases are also terrible.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler='Chapter 4']Posted Image
Just give me the damn useless...

Posted Image
...Iron axe?[/spoiler]


Version History:

v0.1: Up to chapter 5 re-done, mostly with buffed generic enemies, different enemy weapons, and bosses with better stats and more interesting equipment. Characters up to Forde have been retuned, usually with slightly different bases and more appropriate growths; notably, Seth has been made in the FE12 pre-promote model -- low bases, high growths, which makes him somewhat necessary but far less game-breaking. Killer weapons have been nerfed slightly, javelins/hand axes have been nerfed in MT, and longbows have been redesigned as the bow version of javs/HAs (w/ 2-3 range instead of 1-2) and are now buyable in Ide. Multiple class changes have been implemented, mostly adjusting stat caps/promotion gains for t2 classes. Mounts/fliers have eaten MOV nerfs, which may be reverted in a later version pending feedback.


Current Changes:
The following link contains ALL changes in the patch. Click this if you don't care about spoiler alerts, but want detailed information about what is in the patch.

KoT Patch.doc

Edited by Kngt_Of_Titania, 27 April 2012 - 03:43 PM.


#2 SB.

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:35 AM

I don't think you should decrease all mounts movement by one, it worked in the Shin patch because Sigurd had almost double Azel's movement, but in GBA the gap is slighter. Think about it this way, Colm can now run as fast as Franz can ride, which sort of defeats the purpose of a mounted class. Maybe buff all the sword locked first tier units (dunno about their promotions), Archers and possibly Ephraim (so he has the same as his sister) to 6 movement. Everyone stuck at 5 has superior combat options to them due to having 1-2 range. You seem to be going about units the right way, it's too early about chapters. All I have to say for the things you have so far besides adding a crit bonus for Snipers.

#3 Anouleth

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:43 AM

Vanessa can't wield the Axereaver since her base weapon rank is D.

#4 Kngt_Of_Titania

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:44 AM

Vanessa can't wield the Axereaver since her base weapon rank is D.


Oh crap. I forgot to mention in my notes that I'm buffing her base lance rank to C, for the sole purpose of making her easier to train.

Thanks for that.

Edited by Kngt_Of_Titania, 13 April 2012 - 11:44 AM.


#5 Celice

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:53 AM

I hope the alterations get a bit more advanced, because, even knowing what it is you're trying to do, it doesn't look all too interesting, especially compared to the Shin patch which steps up beyond simple stat meandering.

#6 Blues003

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 12:06 PM

Firstly, let me say I congratulate yoru effort on balancing what is a hard-to-balance game. Even today I was talking on the chat and asking about balance patches for FE8.

Now, as for my thoughts on it:

- Don't change the Movement of characters. FE8's maps, while not massively big, are pretty labirinthic, and it destroys the purpose of mounted units. Also, Great Knights have that -1 Mov penalty because it sort of balances them out; taking that penalty out doesn't seem too good on the long run.
- Franz got his stats upped? What? But he's one of the best characters already!
- Iron Sword on Eirika isn't that big of a deal; you can buy them later anyway, and you get a 2nd Rapier as well.
- Bows on Generals look sort of gimmicky, ubt sure, let's see how it turns out!
- I am curious on what you'll be doing regarding abilities such as Slayer.


Congratulations on an interesting project. I'll be checking this out regularly! ;)

#7 Kngt_Of_Titania

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 12:25 PM

I hope the alterations get a bit more advanced, because, even knowing what it is you're trying to do, it doesn't look all too interesting, especially compared to the Shin patch which steps up beyond simple stat meandering.


At this point, I'm getting used to Nightmare AND laying down the foundations of the hack. The class/character/item/enemy number changes are simply what I think needs to be put down in place first to start things off; it'll be getting more ambitious from then on out. I expect to be building on and refining this hack for a while...this thread is mainly an announcement of things to come and a chance to get advice from people while I can still fix things easily (thanks for all of the feedback, btw -- really appreciate it! Posted Image).

I'll be adding more things on the same line as the Horseslayer on C1's boss -- new reinforcements, enemy class changes (so making that simple soldier into a sniper you have to plan around before advancing, or making an armor-heavy section with lancereavers and horseslayers so you may not want to cav rush that section), possibly a new class or two if I can ever get that to work. It's a bit hard to fully implement clever stuff like that on the earliest chapters when you have like 4 units, although I'll make an active effort like that. Hopefully, C2's changes should reflect that more.

I also ultimately want to modify skills: Concepts like a miniature-Luna for mercs, make Sure Shot do 150% damage for snipers, possibly make Great Shield based on %SKL so it's more usable at lower levels (Generals now have one of the lowest SKL caps, so its proc chance at level 20 would be only minorly higher at --/20 than in vanilla), etc.

And, since I do love them FE9/10 Neph, I want to change Amelia's cav option to a soldier/halberdier option -- just warning you, the halberdier will use the soldier artwork at first until I can implement new artwork!

Again, this is what I HOPE to do by the end. Obviously, reality and imagination don't always play well together, but I'm determined to make as much of it work as I can.


EDIT: As for the MOV nerf on mounted units, it was mainly an attempt to nerf rescuing to occassions where, well, you want to RESCUE somebody. It's hard to justify buffing paladin caps/promo gains or buffing Vanessa's combat without first nerfing their utility like that. Rescuing is still useful for sure, just not dominating.

HOWEVER, it's very hardly set in stone. At this point, it's simply an experiment, and reverting it is simply a matter of adjusting a few variables on Nightmare. I'd like to complete up to C8, have a few players beta-test it, and see how they like it. If it stays this unpopular, then yes, 8 MOV for paladins again...yay~

Edited by Kngt_Of_Titania, 13 April 2012 - 12:31 PM.


#8 Thor Odinson

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 12:57 PM

>Modify skills

ASM. G'luck with that.

I'm not much of a fan of mounts getting their movement nerfed either. Just make enemies harder and foot unit combat more relevant instead of, you know, Paladins solo game and not give a fuck. Also @ Bananas Eirika has 5->7 move and not 6->8, which is already the same as Ephraim.

#9 SB.

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:05 PM

I included Eirika in the Sword locked 1st tiers, with Mercs and Myrms. I also agree on making the Paladin's combat a little worse to balance them with other units.

#10 Kngt_Of_Titania

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:17 PM

So this has been bothering me. What would you specifically think should be the move for:

- Cavalier (Currently: 6)
- Great Knight (Currently: 7)
- Paladin (Currently: 7)
- Valkyrie (Currently: 7)
- Ranger (Currently: 7)
- Unpromoted flyers? (Currently: 6)
- Promoted flyers? (Currently: 7)
-
Thieves (Planned: 5 w/ Significantly Reduced Terrain Penalties)
- Rogues/Assassins (Planned: 6 w/ Significantly Reduced Terrain Penalties)

If I put Paladins alone back at 8 MOV, I WILL have to nerf back their combat. Currently, the GK/Paladin choice is this:

Paladin:
- More SPD/SKL (caps, promo gains).
- Only wields Swords/Lances.

Great Knight:
- More STR/DEF (caps, promo gains).
- Wields the trinity.
- Armoslayer weakness (and this WILL be relevent in KoT patch).


Edited by Kngt_Of_Titania, 13 April 2012 - 01:19 PM.


#11 arvilino

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:21 PM

Nice changes so far. On the Paladin move thing, I'd imagine it could go to 8 move if you decrease the base defense of the class a bit(maybe more HP and Res to compensate) since it means while they have have movement they won't have the defense to utilise it regardless of situation.

One thing I was thinking about was the con disparity between classes, especially Joshua and Marisa. What about making the female Swordmaster/Assassin speed cap and promotion gains 2 points above the male. That way Joshua performs better with heavier weapons, but Marisa would perform better with weapons that are below both of their constitution.

Edited by arvilino, 13 April 2012 - 01:22 PM.


#12 Tangerine

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:37 PM

So this has been bothering me. What would you specifically think should be the move for:

- Cavalier (Currently: 6)
- Great Knight (Currently: 7)
- Paladin (Currently: 7)
- Valkyrie (Currently: 7)
- Ranger (Currently: 7)
- Unpromoted flyers? (Currently: 6)
- Promoted flyers? (Currently: 7)
-
Thieves (Planned: 5 w/ Significantly Reduced Terrain Penalties)
- Rogues/Assassins (Planned: 6 w/ Significantly Reduced Terrain Penalties)

If I put Paladins alone back at 8 MOV, I WILL have to nerf back their combat. Currently, the GK/Paladin choice is this:

Paladin:
- More SPD/SKL (caps, promo gains).
- Only wields Swords/Lances.

Great Knight:
- More STR/DEF (caps, promo gains).
- Wields the trinity.
- Armoslayer weakness (and this WILL be relevent in KoT patch).


I think you are operating under the banner of FE8 vanilla. If you are really intending to make enemies significantly more difficult, the move rates are just plain not going to be as broken. Plus FE8 Paladins are not broken to begin with, it is only the units in the class and the ease of the game that made them so. Just use the original movement rates and give -1 mov to promoted Wyverns.

If enemies are not easy to run over then the movement rate of mounted units will not be as easy to utilize as a game-breaker, making it less good merely as a result of good balancing. Plus it's easy to make enemy formations that will be unfavorable for horse/flight rushing. Horseslayer with reasonable hit rates is going to discourage any horsie from running in without a fair amount of help. Actually threatening Snipers with good bows is a good curb for flight units as well.

You certainly have options other than nerfing the main advantage of having a mount :P:.

Edited by Tangerine, 13 April 2012 - 01:39 PM.


#13 Celice

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:46 PM

I think you should make Pegasus Knights be 7 movement, and Falcon Knights 8 movement, with the Dragon counterparts be 6 for unpromoted and 7 for promoted. I dunno what you'd do for the Wyvern 10 movement

#14 Kngt_Of_Titania

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 03:39 PM

Alright, just curious: How does one change the starting position of an enemy on a map for FE8? I tried just adjusting the X and Y coordinates on the Map Unit Editor, but it simply crashes the program (plus, the X and Y coordinates given for them actually don't make sense at all given their relative positions on the map). Other than that, the initial readjustment of C2 is finished.

Mainly, I ask because many of the enemies in C2 start on mountain tiles, and moving them affords me more flexibility as to what types of enemies to put on the map.

Edited by Kngt_Of_Titania, 13 April 2012 - 04:26 PM.


#15 Mekkah

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 05:34 AM

It's pretty tricky to do with Nightmare alone. The X and Y coordinates do actually correspond to tiles, but it's not a normal grid. However, if you make a map out of the locations you know, you can figure out the patterns and kind of move enemies around that way. Sometimes a unit walks to a certain tile in a cutscene though, and changing those can make the game crash, or just make it impossible to move them.

#16 CT075

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 06:03 AM

>editing units with nightmare
>ea does the conversion for you

The x and y don't work as you might expect. I believe that it's more like a horizontal line. think of it as the map's rows being placed side by side. 1y = 255, and x works by moving right past that.

Also, i'm curious to see how you implement skill changes. I couldn't figure it out (well i figured out how sure shot works but don't ask me to alter it- the damn thing only takes up two or three opcodes)

#17 Kngt_Of_Titania

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 12:31 PM

Thanks for that; I think that makes sense now. Looking over Blazer's "FE Hacking for Dummies" guide, he suggests you can use Mappy (mapwin) to find out the map coordinates; I'm assuming you have to import the in-game maps somehow?

Also, more updates. Neimi's base stats have been increased (and her growths minorly nerfed), javelin MT is now 2, hand axe is now 3 MT, and longbow has been redesigned; 9 WT/3 MT/20 uses/400G worth/E rank needed. In addition, longbow is now treated as the javelin/hand axe of bows, and can be purchased in Ide's shop.

Colm still needs to be balanced a bit (I'm still trying to figure out how to make his stat spread, especially since he needs crit for silencer but raising his STR/SKL makes him like a myrm more than a thief). C3 got a basic buffing, although I still need to change the weapons/classes of a few of the enemies.

Edited by Kngt_Of_Titania, 14 April 2012 - 12:31 PM.


#18 Dr.Sholes

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 02:28 PM

You could fix FE8's maps, if you know how. Most of them are pretty bad...

#19 Kngt_Of_Titania

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 02:41 PM

I want to touch up all of the balance changes and enemy buffing before I touch maps/skills/possible new classes, stuff like that. It's still my first hack, so I'm winging a lot of this (and being surprisingly successful due to how nice Nightmare UI is).

#20 Anouleth

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 06:04 PM

If I might make a recommendation can you make phantoms able to move through walls

because dude they're phantoms

Edited by Anouleth, 14 April 2012 - 06:04 PM.