79 replies to this topic

[sunshinesan]

Similar to how I listed things I noticed about Shadow Dragon with respect to the modern FE's (6-10), I'd like to share my thoughts about this game in relation to the Western released titles (hint - this one is worse, that is, in putting me away from my FE comfort zone)

- You can't trade, so units are item/weapon locked, unless you do the whole pawn shop thing. I feel that this system is very cumbersome, and unnecessarily frustrates an aspect of a game that is important to optimizing your units, a key component in Tactical RPGs.

- There is huge gap between movement capabilities between mounted and non-mounted units, the size of the maps exacerbate this problem. I love the epicness of the maps, but it really compounds the difference of the two types of units and make coordinating them difficult. This could have been lessened with the ability to rescue, but yeah, that doesn't exist until the next game.

- No vulneraries makes me sad. Ethlin is the only reliable healer thus far, as both Adean and Lachesis's crawl speed leaves something to be desired.

- Is there any indication when 2 characters begin to fall in love? I randomly had Azel stand next to Adean and it showed 'give', to my surprise, they had already fell in love. I was boosting them with adjacent love boost, but I didn't know it was this quick, and without warning.

- I heard some state that this is the easiest FE to date, which is absurd, the enemy density is the heaviest I've seen yet, and that's on the first few chapters. Mounted enemies chip the crap out of your units with canto and unless you really elaborate your position, getting overwhelmed is a pretty easy thing you can get yourself into.

- Is it normal to have a dedicated guarder for your main castle? I just have Arden do it, but I am currently on chapter 2 and he is going to get killed in a turn by a legion of pegasus knights that decided to fly over to him much to my chagrin, this was without warning, as the maps are so huge that I can not get to him in time with Levin. I am forced to lose and start the chapter over, which is a dreadful thought, or I can warp a dude over and kill Fury and the rest of the PegKnights. This pisses me off because Levin's location on the map couldn't be located in a worse place when he joins, without hauling ass and knowing exactly where to go to recruit Fury pretty much means you're fucked.

- Sigurd is god, I've only played 2 chapters but yeah, he is the best lord. He's like a Jeigan with god growths/bases/movement that happens to be the main character.

- Is it normal to spam the arena like no tomorrow at the beginning of the chapters? I can't help it. In other words, is it necessary?

- the obvious 1 RN system observation. This, while subtle, is one of the key differences between preFE6 games to the modern ones. The effect is too great and I'm feeling like I'm playing Pokemon (Thunder accuracy anyone?) in terms of my hit percentages. I took the 2 RN system for granted, but yeah, it was a great idea, not in terms of making the games easier, but making them less frustrating.

- Aira is also wtfbroken. Meteor pretty much makes all the other characters' damage output look pathetic, there is just too much discrepancy between them.

I love the music and atmosphere of the game thus far now, though I'm having doubts about this game's supposed godlyness with respect to the other titles.

Of course, I have only scratched the surface of this game; by no means am I bashing it as if I knew everything about it already, these are merely observations from a modern FE player's point of view. I plan to finish this run, and hopefully it gets better.

Edited by goopy, 25 April 2012 - 09:24 AM.

[Cosmic_Harold]

- You can't trade, so units are item/weapon locked, unless you do the whole pawn shop thing. I feel that this system is very cumbersome, and unnecessarily frustrates an aspect of a game that is important to optimizing your units, a key component in Tactical RPGs.

This is the one main thing I wish this game changed, as it is more of a bother rather than a unique system apart from the rest of the series.

[Zeem]

The trade system is the only thing that I have a problem with in this game. It's not that bad, but I find it tedious selling items at the pawn shop for other units.

[Agile Tit-Tyrant]

I'm on my first Genealogy playthrough too. Not planning on playing it any more than once.

1. I heard some state that this is the easiest FE to date,
2. Is it normal to have a dedicated guarder for your main castle?
3. This pisses me off because Levin's location on the map couldn't be located in a worse place when he joins, without hauling ass and knowing exactly where to go to recruit Fury pretty much means you're fucked.
4. though I'm having doubts about this game's supposed godlyness with respect to the other titles.
5. Is it normal to spam the arena like no tomorrow at the beginning of the chapters? I can't help it. In other words, is it necessary?

1. This is by far the most difficult, and most frustrating FE I've ever played. Some people say Thracia 776 is the hardest but I thought it was easier than this.
2. Personally I usually just use someone who is a higher level than most so others can gain EXP in their place.
3. Yeah saving Fury sucked. Atleast there's Aideen with her warp staff. :/
4. I'm having doubts as well.
5. Use it as much as possible.

Now I'm almost at the end of 1st gen. (people will say "omg nub dun say it isnt da best whn u only plaid da firstest"), but so far I personally dislike it. I would put it in the "games everyone loves but you don't" category. Of course my opinion could change during the second half but I don't think I could call this a great game when the whole first half sucked.

[sunshinesan]

Also, recruiting Aira was a pain in the ass. People complain about Joshua in FE8. It's like, would you rather waste 5-7 turns avoiding getting meteored in the face so you can carefully lure her away from the castle so that you can conquer it by defeating a health replenishing miniboss with defense/avoid boosts and then go and talk to her? This is also on the first chapter. Mandatory Lyn mode for western-noobs was overkill, but this is overkill in the other direction.

[Balcerzak]

- Is there any indication when 2 characters begin to fall in love? I randomly had Azel stand next to Adean and it showed 'give', to my surprise, they had already fell in love. I was boosting them with adjacent love boost, but I didn't know it was this quick, and without warning.

This is what the fortune teller in the castle is for.

- I heard some state that this is the easiest FE to date, which is absurd, the enemy density is the heaviest I've seen yet, and that's on the first few chapters. Mounted enemies chip the crap out of your units with canto and unless you really elaborate your position, getting overwhelmed is a pretty easy thing you can get yourself into.

Saying that enemy density is the heaviest is quite a mischaracterization. Instantaneous density, perhaps, as you are often faced with a large battalion of enemy units that operate on squad AI, moving and sticking together. However integrated density is incredibly low, as after you deal with the initial threat, there is nothing but large segments of empty space, and boring turns of walking your units with no confrontation.

Learning how to properly wall and handle enemy squad AI takes a different way of thinking compared to many of the other enemy phase AIs do, however, so you're very right, that if you do not handle the situation properly you can be hit and run to death by enemy cavalry, or units can be ganged up on to extents beyond their ability to handle. However, that very capability exists for you on the player phase as well, allowing you to nearly decimate the whole horde before they get a chance to act.

- Is it normal to have a dedicated guarder for your main castle? I just have Arden do it, but I am currently on chapter 2 and he is going to get killed in a turn by a legion of pegasus knights that decided to fly over to him much to my chagrin, this was without warning, as the maps are so huge that I can not get to him in time with Levin. I am forced to lose and start the chapter over, which is a dreadful thought, or I can warp a dude over and kill Fury and the rest of the PegKnights. This pisses me off because Levin's location on the map couldn't be located in a worse place when he joins, without hauling ass and knowing exactly where to go to recruit Fury pretty much means you're fucked.

In your first playthrough, when you do not know the plot, or who is arriving when and where, you should probably post a home guard. Once you're experienced you generally don't need anyone in the castle.

- Is it normal to spam the arena like no tomorrow at the beginning of the chapters? I can't help it. In other words, is it necessary?

Normal, yes. Necessary, not strictly, but certainly if you want to optimize your army.

[Paperblade]

There is no reason not to spam the arena because each character can only win 8 rounds per chapter.

Also FE4 is only hard if you play it for ranks and even then that's mostly because no restarts.

[Agro]

- You can't trade, so units are item/weapon locked, unless you do the whole pawn shop thing. I feel that this system is very cumbersome, and unnecessarily frustrates an aspect of a game that is important to optimizing your units, a key component in Tactical RPGs.

It's the game's way of forcing you to decide how inheritance is going to work out, since there are certain pairings that require you to kill bosses with certain characters, etc. Also ensures that you are careful to whom you give items because the pawn shop system ensures that your character loses money unless they have Bargain.

- There is huge gap between movement capabilities between mounted and non-mounted units, the size of the maps exacerbate this problem. I love the epicness of the maps, but it really compounds the difference of the two types of units and make coordinating them difficult. This could have been lessened with the ability to rescue, but yeah, that doesn't exist until the next game.

Yeah, Azel/Tailto/Adean are by far the worst, but you kind of have Sylvia being able to refresh 4 units per turn so alleviate this, I guess.

- I heard some state that this is the easiest FE to date, which is absurd, the enemy density is the heaviest I've seen yet, and that's on the first few chapters. Mounted enemies chip the crap out of your units with canto and unless you really elaborate your position, getting overwhelmed is a pretty easy thing you can get yourself into.

I guess this would depend on what you're used to? Never have anyone face an army or be able to be surrounded by crpaloads of units and usually things work out.

- Is it normal to have a dedicated guarder for your main castle? I just have Arden do it, but I am currently on chapter 2 and he is going to get killed in a turn by a legion of pegasus knights that decided to fly over to him much to my chagrin, this was without warning, as the maps are so huge that I can not get to him in time with Levin. I am forced to lose and start the chapter over, which is a dreadful thought, or I can warp a dude over and kill Fury and the rest of the PegKnights. This pisses me off because Levin's location on the map couldn't be located in a worse place when he joins, without hauling ass and knowing exactly where to go to recruit Fury pretty much means you're fucked.

Adean's Warp staff or Ethlin's Return staff is usually a good solution for this. Don't leave anyone behind (why did you leave Levin at the villages? >_>) and make a save before you conquer each castle. That way you always have a reasonable place to roll back to.

I love the music and atmosphere of the game thus far now, though I'm having doubts about this game's supposed godlyness with respect to the other titles.

People enjoy it for its standout-iness, I suppose.

- Is it normal to spam the arena like no tomorrow at the beginning of the chapters? I can't help it. In other words, is it necessary?

Far from necessary, but since there aren't an awful lot of consequences for losing and you can conquer the arena without even using up a turn, it's recommended. In fact it's pretty much assumed that you put every character through the arena if they can. By the way, if you can't get somewhere to clear the arena in the first turn, when the chapter is almost over, have Etlin Return them to the castle or Adean Warp them to one and try again. Don't forget that characters can participate in the arena in the chapter you get them as well.

[Guy Starwind]

Unless you love spoilers and people telling you how to play the game, I would run away from here until you finished it. If you don't want things spoiled then stay away from topics regarding this game.

Moreover, adding in a trade system would make the game super easy. Imagine trading the elite ring (or any ring for that matter) for the price of nothing.

With that being said I hope you enjoy the game.

Edited by Guy Starwind, 25 April 2012 - 03:34 AM.

[Baldrick]

Well, it's your first playthrough. I don't think anybody enjoyed their first playthrough (unless they used a guide or were masochistic). Once you know what's coming, and get used to the combat system, it's a lot better. Keep at it!

Also, am I the only one who liked the trade system? It forced you to think carefully about item placement(I'm not so keen on seperate gold, especially with status staves costing so much).

[Agro]

Also, am I the only one who liked the trade system? It forced you to think carefully about item placement(I'm not so keen on seperate gold, especially with status staves costing so much).

I hated it at first, but it grew on me and it would definitely have made the rings really broken (shove all rings onto one character -> arena -> rinse, repeat) so I don't really mind it anymore.

[BamBamMan]

Sure, Aira's damage output is higher than most of your other characters, yes. But she has less movement to compensate, as you've already noticed. It would matter less if your lord wasn't the best unit in the game and on a horse, but he is. You can have him and your other good mounted units (Lex and Cuan, and once she promotes, Lachesis) killing everything so that she and other foot units are just left picking up scraps.

Yeah, use the Arena. Each character can can only use it a limited amount of times a chapter, so you can't really abuse it.

People say the game is easy because in the 2nd gen, most of the enemies don't increase in difficulty as much as your units become better.

The gangs of enemies become much easier to handle if you estimate their movement range and park your troops right outside of it. That way, they're right in front of you on PP and you can kill half of them there.

[Kramgnauh]

Have to say, gotta agree with most of your points, especially the trading system... freakin' pawn shops and those huge freakin' maps...

On the other hand, be sure to use Lachesis cause she's gonna rock the world once she promotes

[sunshinesan]

This is what the fortune teller in the castle is for.

Yeah I guess, I just hoped that there was some kind of message like, "X fell in love with Y", not asking for any A-support convos, but a simple message would have been nice.

Saying that enemy density is the heaviest is quite a mischaracterization. Instantaneous density, perhaps, as you are often faced with a large battalion of enemy units that operate on squad AI, moving and sticking together. However integrated density is incredibly low, as after you deal with the initial threat, there is nothing but large segments of empty space, and boring turns of walking your units with no confrontation.

Learning how to properly wall and handle enemy squad AI takes a different way of thinking compared to many of the other enemy phase AIs do, however, so you're very right, that if you do not handle the situation properly you can be hit and run to death by enemy cavalry, or units can be ganged up on to extents beyond their ability to handle. However, that very capability exists for you on the player phase as well, allowing you to nearly decimate the whole horde before they get a chance to act.

The enemy formations isn't a complaint. I love the fact that this game makes you think in terms of your unit placement, and timing. It makes the tactical part of the game really stand out. I'm just a little shaken up by the fact that it is so early in the game. Then again, FE games always go from hard to easy in most games <_<

Unless you love spoilers and people telling you how to play the game, I would run away from here until you finished it. If you don't want things spoiled then stay away from topics regarding this game.

Moreover, adding in a trade system would make the game super easy. Imagine trading the elite ring (or any ring for that matter) for the price of nothing.

With that being said I hope you enjoy the game.

Just from being a FE fan and being around the community in general, I already know of 2 spoilers, something about Alvis betraying Sigurd, and the other one being Sigurd's death. Though it isn't a big deal. And thanks.

So yeah, I'm redoing Chapter 2. Arden died a turn too early, I didn't know an enemy unit can kill the guard and conquer on the same turn.
I added the obvious 1 RN system to the first post. This, while subtle, is one of the key differences between preFE6 games to the modern ones. The effect is too great and I'm feeling like I'm playing Pokemon (Thunder accuracy anyone?) in terms of my hit percentages. I took the 2 RN system for granted, but yeah, it was a great idea, not in terms of making the games easier, but making them less frustrating.

Last question, for the Arenas, is there any point to concede mid-battle? It seems you don't lose money, nor do you die when you go to 0HP in the arena, and if you concede, it isn't like your HP gets healed anyway.

[Balcerzak]

Last question, for the Arenas, is there any point to concede mid-battle? It seems you don't lose money, nor do you die when you go to 0HP in the arena, and if you concede, it isn't like your HP gets healed anyway.

To completely concede? Barring using the Arena to RN burn and you only want to burn a specific number, no.

However, "conceding" gives you the choice to change your weapons midway through the battle, which allows for shenanigans with Defense Sword and Prayer (Sword), for getting a unit into unkillable range.

[Helswath]

The pawn shop system is incredibly annoying. All I can say is to use your thief to get gold to units that have a hard time getting it, use the arena for extra money, and let staff-users visit villages when possible.

By the way, Ardan is widely considered to be one of, if not THE worst unit in the game. However, I recommend checking the "hints and secrets" section on this site, as there is an important item he can get in chapter 2.

The enemy AI and cantoing is a bitch, but this is made a bit easier by the fact that you can save on every turn. In fact, you can set the game up to auto-save to a specific slot at the beginning of each chapter. This makes it alot easier to reduce casualties and defeat troublesome groups of enemies.

As for the Levin situation, I recommend having him defeat the bandits with Sylvia's help, then moving him over to Sigurd's group ASAP, then letting Aideen or Ethlin send him back to the home castle. You'll also want to start hauling ass over to the pass near Mackily so you can start fighting off the troops from Augusty.

I always get all of my characters as far as possible in the arena at the beginning of the chapter. It's one of my least favorite things about this game, since it's tedious and takes up a lot of time at the beginning of the chapter, but the EXP and money are well worth it. Also, make sure someone beats the arena in chapter 2--you'll get a new (and good) character at the end.

By the way, AideenxAzel will result in one of their children characters turning out pretty bad. Just fyi. You can check recommended pairings. In my current playthrough, I experimented a bit, but next time I play, I'm going to see what happens if I let the pairings happen naturally.

You are correct, Sigurd is god. However, if you think that Aira is god, wait until you see her kids. Pretty much any pairing will result in them being totally HAX. In fact, wait until chapter 3--Aira can get a Brave Sword, and then she'll be even MORE broken.


In conclusion, I guess my only real problems with this game are:

1. Arena tedium
2. Weapon weights (12 for lances, 18 for axes)
3. Nonsensical magic weights (they do the exact same thing, but wind is 2, thunder is 7, and fire is a whopping 12)
4. A sobering lack of axes (only one main axe user for each generation, and no usable * rank axe).

There are probably others, too. On the whole, though, this became one of my favorite FE's once I got used to it.

[Celice]

To completely concede? Barring using the Arena to RN burn and you only want to burn a specific number, no.

However, "conceding" gives you the choice to change your weapons midway through the battle, which allows for shenanigans with Defense Sword and Prayer (Sword), for getting a unit into unkillable range.

If you have a Sleep sword, any unit can kill anything. Enter battle and strike the enemy until they fall asleep, then switch out for the cheapest weapon you have (Iron/Slim sword/lance/whatever), then beat the shit out of them. If you're on an emulator pleasepleaseplease use fast-forwarding.

The only other strategic reason I can think of is to get a unit purposefully hurt just to heal them again...but you can let someone die in the arena for the same effect, and more experience too.

[Esaka]

The trade system was eliminated due to the generation system. In an attempt to individualize each child and make customization of him/her more important, they eliminated trading. There are ways around it of course, but it shows that FE4 had a much different approach and goals then past FEs. So yeah, I like it.

[Guy Starwind]

I like the trade system too. I also really like individuals having their own money.

[General Banzai]

The apparent difficulty is often undermined by the absolute atrocity that is the enemy AI. Once you understand how they work, it's all too easy to manipulate them.