121 replies to this topic

[Rothene]

The reason why Weapon triangle is more prominent than Magic Triangle is probably because physical classes are very diverse. Just look at their bases and slap on weapons to them and you can see the difference weapons triangle bonuses make because they make the class even more polarised in what they can do.

Magic on the other hand, Spellcasters tend to have lousy bases that are more or less similar. Most of the time, you had no trouble hitting mages even with Magic triangle disadvantage and you just get overkill Hit with advantage. And spellcasters all have so much Res and so little Mag that you're wasting time trying to kill them with each other. Toss in a Physical to dodge and kill them. Hence why I don't miss the Magic triangle.

[Samias]

I hate the anima triangle but miss the anima-light-dark triangle from the GBA games. That way, you picked anima spells for their specific benefits against a certain target, and you used your triangle against a completely different type of mage. Unfortunately IS never seems to be able to balance light magic at all and it almost always ends up being inferior (except in Sacred Stones if you're a bishop). Overall I'm pleased that anima is back to being a single type considering how your mages in PoR/RD were pretty much locked into a single type of magic, defeating the fun of elemental magic.

[CrashGordon94]

I'd prefer the complete Fire/Thunder/Wind/Light/Dark split, it's really the only right way to do it. Merging weapon types is just plain wrong and all the problems with it can be fixed other ways.

[Retsudo]

I say the magics should only be split asap if they are different enough.

FE4's Anima Magic was not different enough.

If they aren't that different, and there isn't a reason given for the mages not to use several of them (Really, Canas can't use a fire book while Nino can?) then I say merge them.

Edited by Retsudo, 07 May 2012 - 04:38 AM.

[CrashGordon94]

Then make them different enough! This is the sort of thing I was getting at with "different solutions".



And there doesn't need to be a storyline reason because this is a gameplay issue.

[Retsudo]

So why not let Canas use Anima?

Not like it would have broken the game anymore than it already was.

Edited by Retsudo, 07 May 2012 - 04:37 AM.

[Thief]

Then you might as well give Falseti to Canas. :)

[VincentASM]

Damn, why isn't Tinny in this game? Just when there was a chance of legitimatly giving her Holsety.

[Discord]

I'd prefer the complete Fire/Thunder/Wind/Light/Dark split, it's really the only right way to do it. Merging weapon types is just plain wrong and all the problems with it can be fixed other ways.

Then make them different enough! This is the sort of thing I was getting at with "different solutions".

"Right way to do it" Why? I entirely disagree because it never works. And heck, I believe keeping Fire/Thunder/Wind as a single weapon type with its own weapon triangle makes the most sense gameplay-wise. But since the internal weapon triangle is not an option, I'd rather just see Anima as a single rank with a wide variety of each sub-type.

The main problem is that it's entirely illogical to give a magical classes FIVE weapons. Physical classes have a lot more diversity, and simply, there's a lot more physical classes, and they only have FOUR weapons. The only way they'd ever get it to work is to simply add more magical classes. As I've pointed out before, every single split Anima game has quite a number of issues. You can't make the magic different enough with only a handful of classes. I'd say having more magic classes would have its own issues as well.

Furthermore, it's not merging weapon types. It's that Anima is occasionally split. Not counting the remakes, there's 11 games, and 7 of them have combined Anima. (9/13 if you include the remakes.) Keeping it as a single type is the norm.

Edited by ZephyrShakuraus, 07 May 2012 - 04:45 PM.

[weso12]

Really IMHO FE7/8 had the best magic triangle in the series three different unique types with there own pros and cons (though light magics weight needed to be reduced)

[Bryan]

I believe keeping Fire/Thunder/Wind as a single weapon type with its own weapon triangle makes the most sense gameplay-wise. But since the internal weapon triangle is not an option, I'd rather just see Anima as a single rank with a wide variety of each sub-type.

This is soo true.

I wish they would have added some type of light magic. I actually like the idea that it goes off of staff level rather than tome level. You'd just need the skill to unlock it just like dark magic.

[Anouleth]

This is soo true.

I wish they would have added some type of light magic. I actually like the idea that it goes off of staff level rather than tome level. You'd just need the skill to unlock it just like dark magic.

Like in FE9. There was no Light magic rank, there was only Staff Rank and the Lumina skill which let you use staff rank to cast light magic. I think that's really an excellent solution. Assuming it's a Priest skill, it gives Priests an edge over Troubadores and speeds up the usually painful process of building staff rank.

Certainly sounds a lot better than Miracle at level 10...

[Othin]

Like in FE9. There was no Light magic rank, there was only Staff Rank and the Lumina skill which let you use staff rank to cast light magic. I think that's really an excellent solution. Assuming it's a Priest skill, it gives Priests an edge over Troubadores and speeds up the usually painful process of building staff rank.

Certainly sounds a lot better than Miracle at level 10...

Healing Heart is at LV10, which is actually quite good, since the healing gets increased by the equivalent of +10 Mag.

But yeah, light magic as an innate ability for Priests / Clerics and Battle Monks / Clerics like dark magic for Dark Mages and Sorcerers could have worked out quite well, especially to differentiate the former compared to Troubadours and the latter compared to... just about any other healing class. Perhaps the most significant thing is that in this case, light magic wouldn't be expected to be that good: it could be as ineffective as in other games, and as just a bonus option for characters without other tome abilities not competing directly with other tome users, it could have worked out just fine as that secondary option.

[dondon151]

But sage is far better than any crappy light magic wielding class...

[Othin]

But sage is far better than any crappy light magic wielding class...

Battle Monks are not simply a "light magic wielding" class: they are a bulky healer class able to do heavy physical damage with axes, and ultimately learn a great self-healing skill. Light magic would simply be a tertiary ability for them.

[CrashGordon94]

"Right way to do it" Why? I entirely disagree because it never works.

Then you make it work, duh!

The main problem is that it's entirely illogical to give a magical classes FIVE weapons. Physical classes have a lot more diversity, and simply, there's a lot more physical classes, and they only have FOUR weapons.

That's not important in any meaningful way.

As I've pointed out before, every single split Anima game has quite a number of issues.

And as I'VE pointed out, there are other ways to deal with those issues than to just give up!

Furthermore, it's not merging weapon types.

Yes it is!

It's that Anima is occasionally split.

And that's a load of bullcrap semantics!

[Zyriex]

I think one of the only ways separating anima could work again would involve vastly increasing the rate at which a unit gains tome weapon exp.

When it gets separated, you have magical units that have to deal with three or four (staff upon promotion) weapon types compared to physical units that generally only have to deal with one or two.

[NeonZ]

The magical units don't need to handle the entire magical triangle though, if you're attempting to make each type of anima into a weapon set. In fact, if you're separating the anima types, the best thing to do would be to design classes for each one or for different combination of types, exactly like the physical classes. In addition, Res of mage units should be toned down to FE3 levels -at least- to make mage vs mage battles viable.

Trying to make an anime triangle while keeping i attached to a single class and without making mage vs mage combat viable only results in balance problems and a mostly unused weapon triangle.

Edited by NeonZ, 08 May 2012 - 12:09 PM.

[arvilino]

Then you make it work, duh!

The solution is to make a better system honestly. You don't force a size 8 foot in a size 3 shoe. You don't put in 5 different magic ranks, with a set of three that are nearly redundant as they all come on the same classes.

Mages don't have great enemy phases and get less attacks of their weapon ranks fall behind physical units. Having 3 anima ranks just means they can't be used to their full potential. Having 1 of the three Anima ranks means the same as their flexibility is significantly reduced.

These are all solved by having a single Tomes rank.

Edited by arvilino, 08 May 2012 - 11:46 AM.

[CrashGordon94]

I think one of the only ways separating anima could work again would involve vastly increasing the rate at which a unit gains tome weapon exp.

Yeah, that too.

The solution is to make a better system honestly.

And this is a WORSE system, so that argument is invalid. There's so much great potential in splits and so many better ways to fix the problems than giving up on it!

These are all solved by having a single Tomes rank.

And as I said there are other, better ways to do it!