67 replies to this topic

[Zeem]

Dat Rules (stolen/borrowed from Integrity)
- Ratings are assumed to be on Hard Mode+Fixed Mode.
- Votes need some explanation regarding their gameplay performance to be counted. If somebody else said what you want to already, quote them explicitly.
+/- ≤1 point extra regarding personality/appearance is encouraged, but no more. If you exercise your bias privileges, please do so explicitly.
- Numerical votes out of 10, or something proportional to it. Make it easy to calculate for my sake.
- Every ranking phase ends whenever I get out of bed, between 0700 and 0800 EST. Do the math for your timezone, Brits.
- I will insist you do not use the "Not X" reason on any character, where X is another unit. If you do, your vote will be thrown out.
- "Recruits X" or "takes you to X chapter" arguments are explicitly banned. C'mon, people, this shouldn't need to be a rule. That's not gameplay performance.
- Assume that the character in question is being recruited.
- Similar to the "Recruits X" rule, do not use "she brings the sonic sword" or any other justification as an argument.
- BEXP is free to be used in any quantity on any character.
- Rating a unit too low because you think its overrated will make me throw away your vote without mercy public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif.
- I withhold the privilege to tell you your rating is bogus and demand you revise it if it breaks any of the above. I will not throw out votes anonymously, you will be informed and given a chance to revise.

Averages:
Rolf: 1.15
Sothe: 2.03
Brom: 2.32
Tauroneo: 2.85
Shinon: 3.00
Janaff: 3.32
Ulki: 3.59
Ranulf: 3.93
Devdan: 4.11
Volke : 4.82
Ilyana: 4.98
Soren: 5.15
Rhys: 5.31
Gatrie: 5.46
Mia: 5.71
Muarim: 6.19
Mist: 6.41
Mordecai: 6.55
Makalov: 6.59
Tormod: 6.62
Zihark: 6.65
Haar: 6.73
Lethe: 6.75
Nephenee: 6.79
Callil: 7.21
Stefan: 7.40
Astrid: 7.76
Boyd: 8.29
Ike: 8.57
Tanith: 9.08
Oscar: 9.08
Kieran: 9.23
Jill: 9.31
Marcia: 9.36
Reyson: 9.79
Titania: 9.91

I always thought her white coat was badass.

[Espinosa]

Forced in one chapter and can contribute chip damage, maybe ORKOing if she gets lucky with crits. However, she loses to trained Zihark and Mia, and while she has better luck, Stefan is better than she is at base. Late join time, swordlock, unreliable offence and fragility of a mage all speak against Lucia's value as a unit. Brings along a Laguzguard which is of some use here and there. Use her in the first chapter she starts in, and then don't deploy her again. 2.5/10

[ポーラ]

Her base stats don't make up for her joining time and that there is almost no way that u could do to make her any good. But at least she could support well with Ilyana as she has an epic affinity, Earth. Other than for support and forging her weapons, there is no other way that u could do to make her any good.

2.5/10

Edited by リンダ, 20 May 2012 - 06:54 AM.

[Hawk King]

PROS:
-really high growths (415% total growth)

CONS:
-terrible base stats
-sword locked
-bad offense
-bad durability
-7 movement, no canto
-low availability



Lucia is ultra bad. Swordmasters are a bad class and she is by far the worst one. Base Stefan is as good as 20/20 Lucia, and Mia and Zihark are better than a base LV Lucia at 20/5, even when leveled up without using bands...

She can kill stuff with silver forges or criticals, but there are about 20 other units who can do the same thing without relying on forges and criticals. Her durability is garbage; she will be 2HKOed by almost any enemy. Even the weakest enemies will 3HKO her.


0/10 - Yep, I done did it. I gave her a goose egg. There are just too many units who perform better than her...

[Gyarados]

Hawk King bases his ratings on lies.

Anyways, mediocre bases(no Stefan having better bases than hers does not count against her), good growths but very little growing time and great affinity but unfortunately none of the characters she supports with are likely to be in play. Being swordlocked isn't great in this game to boot. She ends up being mediocre endgame filler and that's all there is to her.

2/10 +1 bias because she's the second-most attractive female in PoR(and RD as well) IMO for a score of 3/10

Edited by Daigoji Excellen, 11 May 2012 - 08:58 AM.

[Peekayell]

@Hawk King- lucia is salvageable. She is definetely not 2HKO'd by every enemy. Shes 3HKO'd IIRC and she faces poor hitrates. Giving her a silver sword forge allows her to ORKO some stuff and she can use runesword decently. Her low availability and meh bases put her down but shes not OMGrolf or bastian bad. Another plus for lucia, is that you didnt have to tolerate any sucky start like you would with mia/zihark and she didnt require BEXP for swordlock. 2/10 +1 bias makes that 3/10

[Snowy_One]

Well... Lucia... Is a very late joiner. That right there caps her off at not getting above a 5 in my book. She's also got some relatively bad base stats. Actually, screw the relatively! Stefan came back in chapter 15 five levels lower and he had better stats than Lucia! To make it worse she has the only skill in the game that outright hurts it's own wielder by robbing them of support and terrain (Astra sucks, yes, but Parity is on a whole other level). It's not even like there are even enemy skills to negate in the first place! Her supports are poor as well. Sure, if she gets one, it's good, but Ilyana will have had multiple people who would make better supports since they're actually around and Janaff and Bastian are bad units as well!

That being said... Lucia has one thing on Bastian, Haar, and the like. She's redeemable. Sure, it may take a lot of BEXP, but she can be turned into a semi-passive SM. Her strength will always be low, but that can be fixed via a forge so that, while not great, it can at least do something. She doubles. She criticals...

3 (2 + 1 Personal)/10

[aku chi]

To make it worse [Lucia] has the only skill in the game that outright hurts it's own wielder

Tempest. Blossom (especially in fixed mode).

It's not even like there are even enemy skills to negate in the first place!

Several late-game enemies have skills. Some generic enemies in Endgame have skills.

That being said... Lucia has one thing on Bastian, Haar, and the like. She's redeemable.

Assuming you're talking about combat, how can Lucia ever compare favorably with Haar?

[Colonel M]

Snowy_WOneder thinks dumping a truckload of BEXP and forging a Silver Dildo with +5 Mt / +9 Crit suddenly makes her better than someone that flies and only really needs Brave Weapons to function decently.

Part of me is surprised he doesn't do the same with Bastian, who actually is okay of he got shoveled to Level 20.

Edited by Colonel M, 11 May 2012 - 09:10 AM.

[Hawk King]

@PKL -Bastion is definitely better than Lucia. He has siege tome utility. Lucia has a sucky start just like the other 2 Swordmasters. She just has less time and requires more resourses to be good. Also, Mia and Zihark have less competition for a deployment spot. Lucia has to compete with 4 flyers, 6 paladins, and the other 7 move units who actually have good, forgeable 1-2 attack range options.

Sure in a draft setting she could be decent, but when you are using every character in a LTC setting her contributions are next to nothing. Seriously, if she is used in every map what is she doing for us?

She cant move far enough to help complete any Chapter objectives, so the only thing she can do is kill out-of-the-way enemies for self-improvement.

I really dont think my rating is too harsh. Can she make any contributions toward the Chapter objectives for the remainder of her existence???

[aku chi]

Seriously, if she is used in every map what is she doing for us?

She cant move far enough to help complete any Chapter objectives, so the only thing she can do is kill out-of-the-way enemies for self-improvement.

I really dont think my rating is too harsh. Can she make any contributions toward the Chapter objectives for the remainder of her existence???

Uh, C25. All those Paladins we've been training suffer from poor mov. She can help with the rout. It's nothing spectacular, but it's something. Lucia might also be able to help collect some treasure in C27.

[Hawk King]

@Aku Chi

Ok, its something i guess but you would almost have to go out of your way to the point of babying to make Lucia kill anything in Chapter 25, since Boyd, Ike, Stefan, and Nephenee exist. And collecting treasure is really trivial, and is never a Chapter objective.

[Snowy_One]

Snowy_WOneder thinks dumping a truckload of BEXP and forging a Silver Dildo with +5 Mt / +9 Crit suddenly makes her better than someone that flies and only really needs Brave Weapons to function decently.

Part of me is surprised he doesn't do the same with Bastian, who actually is okay of he got shoveled to Level 20.

I give Haar a brave axe, he attacks twice.

I give Lucia a brave sword, she attacks four times.

Lucia's attacks may be weaker, but she also attacks far more.

Also, in the event of the brave sword/axe breaking or being given to someone else, Lucia can function with a forge. Haar cannot.

Edit: The difference between Lucia with a forged silver, and Haar with a brave axe at 20/20 is 1 in favor of Lucia, who can still double when the sword is taken away (Haar cannot). This is ignoring that Lucia can make good use of skills and Haar cannot (even though you likely only have junky skills left by the time either joins). The only thing Haar has on Lucia is flying and rescue-dropping for the final few chapters.

Edit Edit: Also, at base level, Lucia beats Brave Axe Haar by 2 MT. I wouldn't say she's weaker. I would say she's factually stronger than Haar throughout their entire existence unless Haar can break free of his speed problems.

Edited by Snowy_One, 11 May 2012 - 10:07 AM.

[Peekayell]

@ Hawk King- but siege tomes are very likely to be broken by the time Bastian joins :/. He also has terrible combat since he will never double. At least lucia has 7 move, crit chances and can double..not to mention that when bastian joins, there really isnt any need to have siege tomes, except MAYBE ch 27...

Edited by PKL, 11 May 2012 - 10:00 AM.

[bottlegnomes]

I give Haar a brave axe, he attacks twice.

I give Lucia a brave sword, she attacks four times.

Lucia's attacks may be weaker, but she also attacks far more.

Good thing his attacks are massively stronger. Haar w/ brave axe has 31 attack. Lucia w/ brave sword has 23 attack. The weakest enemy in the chapter has 8 defense. Lucia will do 60 damage total, probably avoiding a counter. Haar will do 44, also probably avoiding a counter. There's a pretty big gap there, but both are 2HKOing and it only gets worse for Lucia from there. The highest def enemy is Rikard, whom Haar actually has a chance of reaching, though Jill/Marcia should be killing him. He has 20. Haar's doing a total of 22 damage. Lucia's doing a total of 12. Yeah, she's doing a lot better there. Hell, 12 defense enemies, which are pretty common only put their total damage output 6 points apart, and Haar's avoiding a counter there while Lucia isn't.

Also, in the event of the brave sword/axe breaking or being given to someone else, Lucia can function with a forge. Haar cannot.

So you're going to give Lucia a bunch of silver forges when all Haar needs is one speedwing to have good combat? Heck, he doesn't even need that, just get him overleveled with bexp and a speed band and he'll be fine, with 20.6 speed.

Edit: The difference between Lucia with a forged silver, and Haar with a brave axe at 20/20 is 1 in favor of Lucia, who can still double when the sword is taken away (Haar cannot). This is ignoring that Lucia can make good use of skills and Haar cannot (even though you likely only have junky skills left by the time either joins). The only thing Haar has on Lucia is flying and rescue-dropping for the final few chapters.

Edit Edit: Also, at base level, Lucia beats Brave Axe Haar by 2 MT. I wouldn't say she's weaker. I would say she's factually stronger than Haar throughout their entire existence unless Haar can break free of his speed problems.

Wow, Lucia beats Haar by one or two attack with a weapon that has 8 more might. She's definitely not weaker . Anyway, with the brave axe, Haar is ORKOing all the same enemies as Lucia and avoiding counters on top of it. To fix her problem, Lucia needs constant silver forges, which takes some away from other people, or both energy drops (plus probably bexp and she'll still probably want forges), and then she's still swordlocked with 7 move and bad durability. Haar takes one speedwing or a bexp dump and then he has solid combat, very good durability, and 9 move flight.

Anyway, Lucia's pretty terrible. Terrible bases, worse than most prepromos, and on top of that, she doesn't have the time to grow to fix those bases. Then all the usual SM problems. Also, base level Stefan really is on par with 20 Lucia, sans luck. Anyway, terrible unit, but if you pour enough resources into her, she can become passable.

1.5/10 + 1 bias = 2.5/10

Edited by bottlegnomes, 11 May 2012 - 11:32 AM.

[Dinfinitysignfina]

I don't think she's that terrible. I mean, she's not awesome, but she does have some purpose. She's free in Chapter 25 and can do quite well against the Berserker reinforcements. In the next chapter, all of our Paladins are gimped, and there are lots of enemies with axes on the mountain, giving her some way to level herself. Her bases aren't very good at all (10 base defense as a Lv.--/12 unit, what? ). But her growths are seriously some of the best for the beorcs in this game (all of her growths are better than rival Stefan's, for example). So while her bases are indeed lacking, her growth rates can somewhat migate them. I think that her bottom/low tier position is deserved, but I don't think she's the third worst unit in the game (she can have some use on her free map unlike Rolf);

3 +1 bias = 4/10

[Levant Fortner]

2/10. While she's terrible on account of lowish bases for her level, she's salvageable, which is more than can be said of a certain green haired archer.

Edited by Golden Cucco, 11 May 2012 - 01:25 PM.

[aku chi]

I give Haar a brave axe, he attacks twice.

I give Lucia a brave sword, she attacks four times.

Lucia's attacks may be weaker, but she also attacks far more.

Also, in the event of the brave sword/axe breaking or being given to someone else, Lucia can function with a forge. Haar cannot.

Edit: The difference between Lucia with a forged silver, and Haar with a brave axe at 20/20 is 1 in favor of Lucia, who can still double when the sword is taken away (Haar cannot). This is ignoring that Lucia can make good use of skills and Haar cannot (even though you likely only have junky skills left by the time either joins). The only thing Haar has on Lucia is flying and rescue-dropping for the final few chapters.

Edit Edit: Also, at base level, Lucia beats Brave Axe Haar by 2 MT. I wouldn't say she's weaker. I would say she's factually stronger than Haar throughout their entire existence unless Haar can break free of his speed problems.

Level 16 Haar: 24 Str, ~19 Spd
Level 16 Lucia: 17 Str, 13 Mag, ~26 Spd

Chapter 27

Random Knight: 34 HP, 20 Def, 9 Res, 5 AS
Haar ORKOs with a Hand Axe forge (barely), Steel Axe forge, Brave weapons, Silver weapons, Hammer.
Lucia can ORKO with the Runesword. She can deal 28 HP with a Silver Sword forge.

High-level General: 38 HP, 21 Def, 12 Res, 8 AS
Haar ORKOs with a Steel Axe forge, Brave weapons, Silver weapons, Hammer.
Lucia can deal 30 damage with the Runesword. She can deal 26 damage with a Silver Sword forge.

Random Warrior: 44 HP, 12 Def, 7 Res, 12 AS
Haar ORKOs with a Hand Axe forge, Steel axe, and superior weaponry.
Lucia needs a Silver Sword forge or the Brave Sword to ORKO (she's also borderline with the Runesword).

Toughest Swordmaster: 36 HP, 11 Def, 22 AS
Haar needs a Brave weapon to ORKO.
Lucia is borderline on doubling this fastest Swordmaster, but if she does, she can ORKO with a Steel Sword forge, Silver weapons, and Brave Sword.

Cat: 44 HP, 18 Def, 9 Res, 19 AS
Haar can deal 34 damage with the Brave Lance or 32 damage with the Laguz Axe.
Lucia can deal 38 damage with the Runesword or 34 damage with the Laguzslayer or a Silver Sword forge.

Toughest Tiger: 51 HP, 23 Def, 10 Res, 20 AS
Haar can deal 24 damage with the Brave Lance or 27 damage with the Laguz Axe.
Lucia can deal 36 damage with the Runesword (if she doubles) or 24 damage with the Laguzslayer or a Silver Sword forge.

Random Sniper: 33 HP, 13 Def, 14 AS
Haar can ORKO with anything (including an unforged Javelin or Iron Lance).
Lucia can just barely ORKO with a Steel Sword forge or better.

Toughest Sage: 31 HP, 10 Def, 13 AS
Haar can ORKO with anything (including an unforged Javelin or Iron Lance).
Lucia can ORKO with an Iron Sword forge or better.

Fastest Halberdier: 40 HP, 14 Def, 9 Res, 15 AS
Haar is borderline on doubling, but if he does, he can ORKO with a Hand Axe forge, Steel axe, and superior weaponry.
Lucia is borderline on ORKOing with a Silver Sword forge and has no chance with any other weapon.

Hawk: 42 HP, 16 Def, 9 Res, 18 AS
Haar can deal 38 damage with the Brave Lance or 34 damage with the Laguz Axe.
Lucia can ORKO with the Sonic Sword or deal 38 damage with the Laguzslayer or a Silver Sword forge.

Hafedd: 46 HP, 24 Def, 20 Res, 20 AS
Haar can deal 22 damage with a Silver Axe forge or a Brave weapon.
Lucia can deal 20 damage with a Silver Sword forge.

And let's not forget that Haar has a resounding durability advantage. Like, 11-12 HP, 10-11 Def, and 1 Res.

[Samias]

Pros:
+A rank swords
+Earth affinity
+High growths

Cons:
-Lower bases at level 12 than Stefan at level 8, AND a lower weapon rank to boot. Wtf?
-10 def 8 res and 36 HP means you better hope she dodges
-Yet another swordmaster, but outclassed by the other 3 who already joined you
-Parity is terrible
-Even with her growths, has trouble capping stats
-The likelihood of making use of Lucia's supports is low
-Late joining

Lucia has a cool character design. She just looks really cool. Unfortunately, despite outward appearances, Lucia's stats for her level are trash. If I were going to use a prepromoted swordmaster, Stefan is better in every way conceivable except luck. Affinity be damned, Lucia's choice of supports is just terrible. Her best support is Janaff so she can get some more avoid and defence, because Lucia really has trouble taking hits, and in her starting chapter she can't even use the bushes to her advantage when taking on the berserker reinforcement (likely the only thing she'll even be in range to fight in the whole chapter). At level 12, her base strength is probably going to be worse than a freshly promoted Zihark, her defence will probably be worse, and their skill and speed will have nearly negligible differences.

If Zihark is level 12, Lucia will only be beating him in magic, luck, and res. On average, she'll be losing by 4 HP, 5 strength, 4 skill, 3 speed, and 5 defence. She'll have a magic advantage of 6, a luck advantage of 2, and a res advantage of 2. But by this point in the game, there aren't many mages left. Zihark also has a chance of activating Adept for an extra attack.

If Mia is level 12, she has smaller margins than Zihark, but still has a much larger speed margin. On average, Mia will beat Lucia's HP by 1 point, 3 strength, 2 skill, 3 speed, 1 luck, 4 defence, and 2 res. Average Mia beats Lucia in everything except magic, the stat that she'll never use since Mist is around. And we're not even factoring in that Mia has Vantage, one of the most broken skills in the game that makes up for her weak noodle arms.

If Stefan is level 12... On average, he'll beat Lucia's HP by 4, 6 strength, 7 skill, 4 speed, 3 defence, and 2 res. He'll lose in magic and Lucia trashes his luck by 10 points. I'd still rather have Astra than Parity, since at least that'll net you overkill damage at the expense of weapon durability, rather than just destroying your player advantages by ignoring supports and terrain bonuses.

And yet, swordmasters in this game still aren't very good. Lances are everywhere and without a silver forge or a lucky crit (or both), swordmasters in general have trouble ORKOing generals, dracos, and feral laguz, all of which are quite common towards the endgame. Lucia joins after Ike has promoted, so not only does she compare unfavourably to the other swordmasters, she has to compete with Ike and his Aether too. With the exception of chapter 25, every foot soldier has insane problems keeping up with paladins and fliers, and even then, chapter 25 is dominated by Marcia, Jill, Haar, and Tanith, who can just zip up to the top of the mountain no-sweat.

I'm giving Lucia a 2/10, but that's because no on in PoR is 1/10 material. Not even a certain green-haired archer.

[Colonel M]

Dear aku chi,

Consider yourself redeemed after that post.

- Some random buffoon