124 replies to this topic

[CrashGordon94]

okay, I'm conceding this point. Falling back on the 'archers have the niche of being the best ranged units (in theory) and no melee barring a potential S-rank'.

I already addressed that point.

[Furetchen]

Well actually, you probably just heard from the vocal minority who are against it, I'm pretty certain there are a number of people for it.

And that number is smaller than those in favour.

That would indicate that you're trying to increase equality and availability of 1-2 range weapons, why exclude Bow users from that? Not to mention that despite what those weirdos said it won't kill their "niche" as 2-rangers because it's just one weapon with sub-par stats. In fact it'd be less niche-killing than Hand Axes, Javelins and magic Swords because their 1-range would get overshadowed by all the melee units around (not to mention mages).

Javelins and handaxes are real things, as well as staples of the series. Magic swords are their own niche.

I support javelins and handaxes receiving nerfs, as an aside.

It really just gives a little bit more flexibility by not having them locked to one kill per turn forever, which is not beneficial to game balance in any way and would take a lot of thought about balancing to surmount in a meaningful way, perhaps more thought than is in the scope of a self-proclaimed "simple" hack.

FE12 did it. So did Shinon, and it wasn't for his crossbows.

[CrashGordon94]

You don't know the numbers are smaller, considering how often it comes up in hacks.


And my point was that doing what FE12 did takes more than what can be done in a "simple" hack. Plus Shinon still gets a little bit gimped with the 1-range problem.

And realism is 100% worthless in FE still. Plus 1-2 range doesn't kill the niche and allows more flexibility with balancing.

[Integrity]

You don't know the numbers are smaller, considering how often it comes up in hacks.

And yet you seem very confident that you're in the majority here, despite having arguably less of the facts than Furetchen does.
EDIT: Since it's bound to come up, I take the latter point from the stance that - correct me if I'm wrong - Furetchen has been posting on this hacking board a lot longer than you have, so would have a much more founded concept of the trend of beliefs.

And realism is 100% worthless in FE still.

See this, this is a huge fallacy. "some things are unrealistic" does NOT mean "everything might as well be unrealistic".

Edited by Integrity, 14 May 2012 - 05:35 PM.

[CrashGordon94]

Yes it does, this is a fantasy game, complaining that something isn't realistic in a fantasy game is like complaining that there are too many cars in a racing game!

[Integrity]

Yes it does, this is a fantasy game, complaining that something isn't realistic in a fantasy game is like complaining that there are too many cars in a racing game!

You've obviously never heard of fantastical things that are grounded in reality. Like the Bible. You remember how all sorts of crazy shit happens in the Bible, yet we humans are still bound by physics? Yeah.

Nightmarre calls it realistic fantasy, which incidentally is what Fire Emblem is for the most part. That's why we have bows that shoot, swords that cut, axes that chop, and everything that isn't unrealistic is explicitly magical.

[CrashGordon94]

Nope. Crazy hair colours, skimpy outfits that actually work and silver being strong as opposed to heavy and crap. There is nothing good to be gained from realism here and so much cool stuff that can be gained from flushing it down the toilet entirely.

[CT075]

by that logic...

it would raise no eyebrows if player units could spontaneously develop the ability to shoot magical lasers out of their eyes for no reason
gameplay aside, there should be no objections to the assertion that weapons should be indestructible
likewise, it's an entirely valid idea to say that nobody should ever age

there's "stretching things a little bit" and "absurd".

And personally I feel that bow units don't need 1-2 range - my opinion is that if you really want to make them better then you make them stand out at what they're good at (MAKE 2 RANGE BETTER)- accentuate their strengths rather than try to cover their weaknesses.

Edited by Camtech, 14 May 2012 - 05:48 PM.

[Furetchen]

Dude, I just told you that silver doesn't represent actual silver. Throwing a sword would be an apt simile here. Blue hair is NOT.

Let's flush realism down the toilet entirely. Just follow that to its logical conclusion. I fucking dare you.

[CrashGordon94]

Let's flush realism down the toilet entirely. Just follow that to its logical conclusion. I fucking dare you.

Sure, a typical fantasy story.
Like Fire Emblem.

And besides having a short-range bow is not THAT unrealistic, certainly more plausible than the way Javelins work in FE.

And it may not be 100% necessary but it can only help and only be a good thing.

[Integrity]

Nope. Crazy hair colours, skimpy outfits that actually work and silver being strong as opposed to heavy and crap. There is nothing good to be gained from realism here and so much cool stuff that can be gained from flushing it down the toilet entirely.

1: yes because crazy hair color = THERE IS NO PHYSICS
2: ^ except -hair +outfits
3: You're taking the "silver" too literally, as outlined. Or, shall I say rather amusingly, too realistically. Perhaps silver is used as part of a compound because it is easier to enchant, rather than for its worth as an edge? That's common in fantasy.

And after all, once we've counted these three points we might as well FUCK REALISM!!

(i hope you know you sound like an incredible tool.)

And besides having a short-range bow is not THAT unrealistic, certainly more plausible than the way Javelins work in FE.

You ...throw them? I don't get it.

[Furetchen]

Sure, a typical fantasy story.
Like Fire Emblem.

dude were you even fucking reading Integrity's posts

And besides having a short-range bow is not THAT unrealistic, certainly more plausible than the way Javelins work in FE.

Stabbing someone with a fragile spear less effectively than one stabs with a spear designed for stabbing vs. melee range bows. Yeah, no.

And it may not be 100% necessary but it can only help and only be a good thing.

No, it can't only help and be a good thing. It could be a half-assed and unimaginative attempt to cover up a weakness rather than further define a strength.

[CrashGordon94]

No, it can't only help and be a good thing. It could be a half-assed and unimaginative attempt to cover up a weakness rather than further define a strength.

No it can't, even if that's all it does it's still minor positive utility.

And what I meant with Javelins is that they fly as far as an arrow and somehow manage to appear back in the unit's hand. Surely that's less realistic!

[Jubby]

No, it can't only help and be a good thing. It could be a half-assed and unimaginative attempt to cover up a weakness rather than further define a strength.

which is what it is, if there's any doubts.

[Refa]

No it can't, even if that's all it does it's still minor positive utility.

And what I meant with Javelins is that they fly as far as an arrow and somehow manage to appear back in the unit's hand. Surely that's less realistic!

I always thought they were carrying multiple javelins, maybe that's just me.

[AstraLunaSol]

And what I meant with Javelins is that they fly as far as an arrow and somehow manage to appear back in the unit's hand. Surely that's less realistic!

What's wrong with buying/carrying 20 javelins?

Edited by AstraLunaSol, 14 May 2012 - 06:05 PM.

[CrashGordon94]

No it's not and even if it is, it's better off being there!

[Celice]

1: yes because crazy hair color = THERE IS NO PHYSICS

I'm sure in an all-possible-worlds model, this is valid.

[Jubby]

It's not better off being there :/ OP even said people wouldn't want it, cause it's dumb.

[CrashGordon94]

Of course it is! It has no negative effects and at least a few positive ones, plus he planned for it and everything!