59 replies to this topic

[Dinfinitysymbolfina]

Dat Rules (borrowed/stolen from Integrity)
- Ratings are assumed to be on Hard Mode (JP Maniac). And only hard mode!
- Votes need some explanation regarding their gameplay performance to be counted. If somebody else said what you want to already, quote them explicitly.
+/- ≤1 point extra regarding personality/appearance is encouraged, but no more. If you exercise your bias privileges, please do so explicitly.
- Numerical votes out of 10, or something proportional to it. Make it easy to calculate for my sake.
- Every ranking phase ends when the next RTU thread is posted (at this point, it's hard to tell).
- I will insist you do not use the "Not X" reason on any character, where X is another unit. If you do, your vote will be thrown out.
- "Recruits X" or "takes you to X chapter" or "Gives you Bronze Sword" arguments are explicitly banned. C'mon, people, this shouldn't need to be a rule. That's not gameplay performance.
- Assume that the character in question is being recruited.
- Similar to the "Recruits X" rule, do not use "she brings a Savior to the team" as an argument.
- BEXP is free to be used in any quantity on any character.
- Skills can be reassigned freely.
- No transfers.
- Anyone that has done a RD RTU withholds the privilege to tell you your rating is bogus and demand you revise it if it breaks any of the above. I will not throw out votes anonymously, you will be informed and given a chance to revise.

Averages:
Fiona: 1.20
Meg: 1.34
Astrid: 2.10
Lethe: 2.21
Vika: 2.40
Leonardo: 2.53
Lucia: 3.06
Danved: 3.11
Tormod: 3.28
Brom: 3.56
Ilyana: 3.75
Makalov: 4.00
Nealuchi: 4.41
Tauroneo: 4.50
Geoffery: 4.50
Black Knight: 4.60
Maurim: 4.72
Kieran: 4.82
Aran: 4.92
Laura: 5.13
Heather: 5.29
Edward: 6.31
Micaiah: 6.50
Calill: 6.59
Mordecai: 7.17
Marcia: 7.31
Zihark: 7.44
Nephenee: 7.74
Elincia: 8.21
Leanne: 8.38
Rafiel: 8.45
Jill: 8.46
Volug: 8.87
Sothe: 8.93
Nailah: 9.00
Nolan: 9.06
Ike: 9.28
Titania: 9.76
Haar: 9.91

[Aquaman]

5/10

Kinda average-ish in HM.
Good in NM and EM, but in HM he's got spd cap problems and some durability problems.

But, arms scrolls+staves and he's handy for Greil Route and restoring Ike.

[nano]

Decent chip and damage, and is actually available enough to be worked into something decent come part 4. I'd say about on par with Calill, maybe slightly better. Transfers are amazing on him though.
5.5/10

[bottlegnomes]

Titania < Haar. Estoy un poco triste. Not that I'm surprised.

Decent chip and damage, and is actually available enough to be worked into something decent come part 4. I'd say about on par with Calill, maybe slightly better. Transfers are amazing on him though.
5.5/10

This -1 because he's a bitch. 4.5/10

[Jedi]

6/10

Soren is blessed with very good Magic and Skill which makes him a good backline unit also with that insane magic + an arm's scroll or two he can potentially be one of the best healers, unfortunately his lack of speed, hp and defense take him down a few pegs because he ends up not being able to double much and gets doubled himself very easily especially during late game. He does have the adept skill but unfortunately he can't normally use it very often

A Support with Ike or other earth element characters can help him avoid some attacks. Overall he is a decent unit with good availability being in most of the game after part 3 starts.

Edited by Jedisupersonic, 11 June 2012 - 03:52 AM.

[Vorena]

lol Calill got a ~6.0 rating and I am so far seeing below that for soren. Before, many people agreed Soren makes the better mage in this game, and he does. Having similar stats to Calill, but with better magic and worse luck. Not like luck is much of a problem when you can get up to ~15 luck which is enough to avoid most critical attacks anyway. He has enough availability that you can start working his B rank can be worked into S rank of fire or thunder if you really want due to the arms scrolls. And arm scrolls are not needed in this game at all. 6/10 The class is helpful, but not outstanding.

Edited by Dark Pegasi, 11 June 2012 - 05:04 AM.

[I don't play for turns]

Like most magic-users, he'll have low defense and HP, making his durability a problem. He'll also have low luck, which hurts his avoid, but it won't have too much of an effect on his dodge and accuracy, and because he'll have high skill. He'll have insanely high magic and resistance as well, making him an excellent magical tank and dealer of damage. However, somewhat like Micaiah but to a lesser extent, His speed prevents him from doubling so he'll usually leave enemies alive with little health after one round, and his avoid will be low. He has low physical durability and speed, but high magic, accuracy, and resistance. He's like a better Micaiah, thanks to that little bit of speed and better availability. 5.5/10 including a +.5 bias due to him being so smart.

[Hamlet]

He's got the best Magic in the game, IIRC being the only magic user who can reach 40 Magic (which he caps most of the time even before transfer data). He has sole access to Rexcalibur until lolbastian shows up. Otherwise, he's just average, although he can pick up Discipline and a Heal staff and reach A Staves quickly enough to use the good ones.

5.75/10

[Shotguner159]

He's got the best Magic in the game, IIRC being the only magic user who can reach 40 Magic.

Micaiah has a 40 Mag cap too, and she has a 80% growth in it too.

I find Soren to be poor. His 18 base SPD means he doubles nothing, and his poor Durability (28HP/9DEF) means that he'll die in two hits from any unit that attacks him with something other than magic, and that makes up the majority of the enemy forces. He does have his uses delivering potshots, and using staffs if he promotes, but he doesn't supply you with much you can't get elsewhere. If only IS had given branded characters higher growths and caps than Beorc units, then he'd probably have much more use. Also, he's forced into Ike's path in Part 4, so he can't help out your other Magic Units in the desert.

4.5/10

Edited by Shotguner159, 11 June 2012 - 07:44 AM.

[Starwave]

...What?!?

Calill is getting higher scores than Soren on average? Does anyone else not see how absurdity of the situation? Yes, I realize that the bias score system might explain a discrepancy in scores, but nothing as substantial as what i'm seeing right now. For example:

Great for 2-E due to meteor access and the large amount of ledges available. Siege tomes in general are just very helpful in many situations, and she does have the bases and weapon ranks to use them effectively. Then she can get 2 or 3 chapters of Paragon help and contribute further. She has nice offensive growths, and magic is great in the desert. If she managed to do well in the Silver army she can easily destroy the 4-E-1 armors and even get 34 AS for 4-E-5 cover auras. She is probably the second sage behind Soren. <br style="color: rgb(7, 55, 2); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(239, 255, 240); ">Also 'em legs.<br style="color: rgb(7, 55, 2); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(239, 255, 240); ">5.5/10 + 1 bias

Decent chip and damage, and is actually available enough to be worked into something decent come part 4. I'd say about on par with Calill, maybe slightly better. Transfers are amazing on him though.5.5/10

The above doesn't really fly for me at all. Bias is irrelevant, but even by his own admission he considers Soren to be better than Calill in his previous vote.

Also

Calill rocks. She's one of the best magic users in the game, reliably uses Rexflame without worrying about being weighed down, can double in Endgame, and has fun throwing Sieges everywhere. Durability's not that great and availability stinks, but she joins at the right time where she can take BEXP without competition.<br style="color: rgb(7, 55, 2); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(239, 255, 240); "><br style="color: rgb(7, 55, 2); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(239, 255, 240); ">7/10

He's got the best Magic in the game, IIRC being the only magic user who can reach 40 Magic (which he caps most of the time even before transfer data). He has sole access to Rexcalibur until lolbastian shows up. Otherwise, he's just average, although he can pick up Discipline and a Heal staff and reach A Staves quickly enough to use the good ones.<br style="color: rgb(7, 55, 2); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(239, 255, 240); ">5.75/10

There shouldn't be 1.25 discrepancy in scores. Before anyone gets on my case for telling others how to vote, i'm not saying. But when you compare the two characters (there's no debating, Soren IS a better character than Calill) between those 2 characters shouldn't be that high, especially if the bias score isn't used.


I'm ok with Folgore's vote since he actually does gives a legitimate reason as to why there's such a large gap in votes. (not that I agree with his assertion since Calill isn't THAT good in the desert and it's only 1 map)


---

Not that i'm implying i'm perfect in any way (i've made my fair share of dubious votes) I still think that large discrepancies in votes like the ones I listed shouldn't happen. This isn't a popularity contest.

Anyway

Soren is pretty good. He comes at pretty good level, has decent growths and he's typically capping most of his stats before promotion (when you account for BEXP). Never overwhelmingly good, just decent for most of the game. Adept is a damn good ability to have, no matter what the character and when he promotes really starts to pull his wait.

6.5/10 + 0.5 bias so

7/10

Edited by Starwave, 11 June 2012 - 07:57 AM.

[Peekayell]

Calill was voted way too high. People forget this is HM and that shes smelly in HM. Soren has much more availability and can contribute a bit, even if his spd is harder to fix in HM. Calill practically doesnt exist and will be too underleveled to be of any use when she joins the GM.

[Levant Fortner]

5/10. Slow, but his potshots are highly damaging. Unfortunately, the lack of BEXP does a number on him. On a side note, I'm not understanding why the mention of arms scrolls, considering that outside of 4-E, they're almost useless.

Edited by Golden Cucco, 11 June 2012 - 08:17 AM.

[Starwave]

Calill was voted way too high. People forget this is HM and that shes smelly in HM. Soren has much more availability and can contribute a bit, even if his spd is harder to fix in HM. Calill practically doesnt exist and will be too underleveled to be of any use when she joins the GM.

Right, i've basically accepted at this point that these are about as relevant as Ganondorf's competitive value in melee. It's a pity, because up until now I thought people were pretty good at being impartial or at least pretending to be impartial. I mean look at this post

I can't agree with Soren or (especially) Pelleas being better (the latter in particular is especially outlandish, if you ask me; I can at least understand an argument that Soren might be better)...<br style="color: rgb(7, 55, 2); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(239, 255, 240); ">That being said, 6 +1 bias for 7/10. One of the better mages in the game, but that's not really saying a whole lot, and her availability hurts her.

and then this

4.5/10. Slow, but his potshots are highly damaging. Unfortunately, he's locked to the worst route for mages. On a side note, I'm not understanding why the mention of arms scrolls, considering that outside of 4-E, they're almost useless.

I don't even need to go over why I find this post to be unacceptable. The heavy emphasis on "routes" (which are 2 chapters), the vague and short entry,and the complete disregard for consistency baffles me. It's not even the first time you've done this cucco (I don't know you, but i've read every RTU thread) and I doubt it will be the last. You're too biased.

Edited by Starwave, 11 June 2012 - 08:07 AM.

[Aquaman]

Hmn.

How about the fact that alot of folks train Oscar/Gatrie/Mia/Boyd/Shinon/Haar/Neph/Tits on HM, instead of Soren.
And the fact that alot of people will be giving him positive or negative bias.

But Calill got alot of positive bias.

Also, Starwave, Soren doesn't have much use in the GMs, outside of 1-2 range nuking/healing.

Edwards never going to rise above Aran, deal with it.

[Starwave]

Hmn.

How about the fact that alot of folks train Oscar/Gatrie/Mia/Boyd/Shinon/Haar/Neph/Tits on HM, instead of Soren.
And the fact that alot of people will be giving him positive or negative bias.

But Calill got alot of positive bias.

Also, Starwave, Soren doesn't have much use in the GMs, outside of 1-2 range nuking/healing.

Edwards never going to rise above Aran, deal with it.

PEMN, I can't believe you forgot that. Besides, if Soren isn't going to get trained then Calill sure isn't going to see any use after she joins the GM. Regardless even if Calill WAS better (which she isn't) there shouldn't be this wide of a gap in votes.

lol, talk about using the oldest trick in the book in an attempt to discredit me. That said, I mostly made that comment to spark discussion. And because Aran irks me. He irks me so.

[bottlegnomes]

Well this is hardly the first of these absurdities. Nolan and Nailah > Sothe and Volug? I don't give a shit if Nailah trivializes 1.5 chapters, Volug's done that in like 5 and has more to do it in. Nolan's literally just an unpromoted, worse version of Sothe for all of part 1 and arguably part 3.

Edited by bottlegnomes, 11 June 2012 - 08:14 AM.

[Russa]

I'd give him 6 cause he is the only "available" magic user on GM side. Remember that Calil is almost unavailable and cant grow as easy as a Soren with some feed ;) 6.5/10 with bias.

[Aquaman]

Assuming the CRks and GMs all count as seperate teams.

Calill is a good option for BEXP dumping from the CRK batch.

The GMs have a team full of rape-ass gods.

However, the things that Soren wants from the GMs, are contested.
-Crown
-Bexp
-Daunt
-Resolve

Is he better than a Crowned Gatrie/Oscar?
Can he use the BEXP as well as Neph/Mia/Boyd/Oscar/Gatrie?
Daunt isn't contested much, except by like.....Resolve!RHys.
Resolve is kinda contested by RHys, maybe Mia, maybe BraveSword!Mist, and Illyana?
Or it could just stay with the DB who need it more.

Also, SOren mains the weakest magic type and is an asshole.

Calill, is on a small team, with little availibility.

She would probobly want
The 3-9 crown
Bexp
Adept

She beats Mak/Kieran/Astrid/.Devdanved with the Crown in the long run
Crowned!Marcia probobly beats her.

Bexp-
CRKs get a big chunk.
Marcia makes great use of it.
Calill would probobly be the 2nd best, in the long run.

Come p4, Soren is LOCKED to greil, and most of his help is just clearing 4-1 and hoping that he doesn't get gang raped, and restore staffing Ike in 4-4.
And assisting in the routes.

Calill can go Silver for desert, or Hawk for clearing the crowded route/kill boss maps.

Also. Soren doesn't bring much to the party in the GMs.

Edited by Folgore Green, 11 June 2012 - 08:22 AM.

[Levant Fortner]

Right, i've basically accepted at this point that these are about as relevant as Ganondorf's competitive value in melee. It's a pity, because up until now I thought people were pretty good at being impartial or at least pretending to be impartial. I mean look at this post

[/size][/color]

and then this



I don't even need to go over why I find this post to be unacceptable. The heavy emphasis on "routes" (which are 2 chapters), the vague and short entry,and the complete disregard for consistency baffles me. It's not even the first time you've done this cucco (I don't know you, but i've read every RTU thread) and I doubt it will be the last. You're too biased.

I've never really been one to say something wordy when it comes to these (except when I cared to). And besides, bottlegnomes said what I wanted to say better than I could've. I'm not really feeling Nolan > Sothe either, but I'm not going to whine about it.


Edit: And Folgore Green also brought up some good points, though I'd think Calill would want Paragon and not Adept.

Edited by Golden Cucco, 11 June 2012 - 08:27 AM.

[Aquaman]

I've never really been one to say something wordy when it comes to these (except when I cared to). And besides, bottlegnomes said what I wanted to say better than I could've. I'm not really feeling Nolan > Sothe either, but I'm not going to whine about it.


Edit: And Folgore Green also brought up some good points, though I'd think Calill would want Paragon and not Adept.

Well, Paragon for more exp in 3-9, or Adept to Adept-Meteor the boss.

Also, Nailah makes several of fe10s most tedious chapters much easier.