34 replies to this topic

[Olwen]

You can watch the Epilogue of this playthrough here.

Hi everyone! As you may know, I recently completed FE10 HM in 179 turns. I decided to improve on my previous FE9 HM run (which was 124 turns) despite thinking it was almost perfect. To my surprise, I managed to find 5 turns to cut!

Overall, I consider this playthrough to be pretty much perfect. I seriously doubt there are any turns to cut (barring some ridiculous RNG abuse) and I don't think I can ever improve on this run.

Team (combat units):

Ike: B Oscar, B Titania, C Lethe
Marcia: A Tanith, B Kieran
Titania: A Mist, B Ike
Oscar: A Kieran, B Ike
Kieran: A Oscar, B Marcia
Ilyana: A Mia, B Mordecai
Mia: A Ilyana, C Largo, C Rhys
Tanith: A Marcia, B Reyson
Mist: A Titania, B Mordecai
Calill

Let's start from the top. Ike, Super Marcia, Titania, Oscar, Kieran.. all crucial units for the sake of efficiency. Then you look a bit down... Eh?! What the hell are Mia and Ilyana doing there?!

1) I picked Ilyana over Tormod because Celerity is useless on a Mage anyway, and she doesn't take bexp that is crucial for other team members like Ike, Kieran and Oscar (all for chapter 17).
2) I picked Mia because I needed a strong foot unit for chapter 25 since horses are useless, and I figured that Ilyana's attack support with Mia would really help with siege tome abuse.

The rest are self-explanatory. Tanith is absolutely necessary for a quick Chapter 25 clear, and Calill is another great unit for siege tome abuse. Surprisingly, I didn't use Rescue as much as I thought I would in this run.

There is, however, one major change between this and my previous run.. I RNG abused the crap out of my Ike, to be specific, I made sure he got a Magic increase in almost EVERY level-up. He had capped magic by level 3 (promoted). Why did I try so hard? Well, I figured 3-turning Chapter 23 would be impossible without Sonic Sword Ike since too many enemies surround him without 2-range. I also figured it would be useful for the various 2-range users in Chapter 25, which is a Rout chapter and a really big pain to clear in 3 turns. Also, in Chapter 27, Runesword Ike is totally going to kick major ass with his 35 might, which is even more than Ilyana's might with Bolting lol.

Turns:

P: 4 turns   1: 2 turns   2: 4 turns   3: 3 turns
4: 2 turns   5: 6 turns   6: 4 turns   7: 5 turns
8: 8 turns   9: 7 turns   10: 3 turns  11: 3 turns
12: 2 turns  13: 7 turns  14: 2 turns  15: 2 turns
16: 4 turns  17: 15 turns 18: 7 turns  19: 1 turn
20: 2 turns  21: 4 turns  22: 1 turn   23: 3 turns
24: 3 turns  25: 3 turns  26: 3 turns  27: 4 turns
28: 3 turns  29: 2 turns

Chapter 7: Other than 23, I figured this was a major suspect to cut a turn in, and it was surprisingly easier than I expected with some superior positioning.
Chapter 9: I tried really hard to get this chapter down to 6 turns. I figured the only way was a promoted Mia, but I needed that bexp for Marcia.. I came up with a strategy that needed my mounted units to carry Marcia and recruit herself on turn 6, but then I remembered that mounted units were unRescuable in this game. >_>
Chapter 13: 7 turns is the limit for this chapter, due to the cutscenes, and 7 turns is only possible if you open all the chests with Volke and Sothe.
Chapter 15: Marcia got the Boots.
Chapter 21: This is a pretty crazy chapter, but with some careful Reyson positioning, it's perfectly possible to 4-turn without using Rescue at all. Marcia weakened Ena enough with the Laguz Lance for a Calill + Reyson kill.
Chapter 23: I managed to cut a turn from this chapter with the aforementioned Sonic Sword Ike, lol. Rescue used once to save Tanith from getting killed by ballistae after getting Blizzard.
Chapter 25: I hate this chapter the most in the game. Killing Edge Ike can one round the boss (who has Resolve...) with a single crit. Killing Edge crits are needed to 3-turn this chapter, and a lot of siege tome abuse. Tanith and Largo went east, Mia, Calill and Ilyana went west and Marcia dropped Ike north so he could one-round the boss on the first turn.
Chapter 26: No Rescue used at all, which imo is very impressive imo, considering the fact that the map is so massive. If you kill the Short Axe Warrior north of your team, Reyson doesn't have to get attacked at all. Ranulf had to shove Marcia once on turn 2 to two-round the boss with a forged Silver Lance.
Chapter 27: Note that the BK battle adds one turn. Anyway, I managed to cut a turn from here as well. Runesword Ike kicked major ass, though I had to break Bolting here because the first one missed. :< Ilyana killed the boss with Bolting after Marcia weakened him.
Chapter 28: Another chapter I cut a turn from.. which is surprising since I 3-turned this chapter on my first try on this run. o_o Marcia killed the boss on turn 2 and Ike killed the dragon in front of the boss on turn 2. Ike had Resolve and Wrath.

Top 5:

5. Mia (53 wins) (prev. Kieran with 30 wins)
4. Oscar (64 wins) (prev. Oscar with 45 wins)
3. Ike (90 wins) (prev. Ike with 63 wins)
2. Titania (98 wins) (prev. Titania with 120 wins)
1. Marcia (109 wins) (prev. Marcia with 140 wins)

Edited by Aeine, 18 June 2012 - 08:54 AM.

[aku chi]

Nicely done. I'm especially impressed that you were able to 5-turn C7, 4-turn C21, and 3-turn C27-1 while getting Resolve.

I'm cross-referencing your turncounts with this work-in-progress run of mine. C3 can be 2-turned, but not if you want to recruit Marcia. C9 can be 4-turned without recruiting Marcia and otherwise 6-turned with a promoted Mia or a promoted Boyd (Boyd can take-drop Ike for an additional square of movement on turn 5). Though it might be impossible to pull that off and still maintain a C11 3-turn clear without C10's Stealth Bexp. I think C25 can be 2-turned, but perhaps not without Jill and/or Haar. So your playthrough might be as good as it gets in a single run.

I'll be using your turncounts here as benchmarks when I continue my aforementioned run. I'm pretty sure I'll be able to beat your C18 clear with transformed Boots Reyson, but the rest of your clears are close to optimal, which is very impressive in a single run.

Edit: I'd be interested in your C16 4-turn clear strategy, assuming you got the Fullguard. I've been able to 4-turn C16 in a variety of ways by rescue-take-dropping both Mordecai and Muarim (with Titania, Oscar, Kieran, and either Jill, Makalov, or Astrid). It looks like you could only rescue-take-drop Mordecai forward, so I'm curious how you pulled it off.

Edited by aku chi, 18 June 2012 - 07:30 AM.

[Olwen]

Edit: I'd be interested in your C16 4-turn clear strategy, assuming you got the Fullguard. I've been able to 4-turn C16 in a variety of ways by rescue-take-dropping both Mordecai and Muarim (with Titania, Oscar, Kieran, and either Jill, Makalov, or Astrid). It looks like you could only rescue-take-drop Mordecai forward, so I'm curious how you pulled it off.

I just played around with a Demi Band and Lethe + Muarim shoves. Both Kieran and Oscar were unpromoted, so no rescue-take-drops were used. He was able to reach Titania on turn 3 that way. I used Kieran and Oscar to clear some enemies for exp instead (Kieran also handed Volke to Titania on turn 2). Titania dropped Volke east of her on turn 3. Volke opened the door and Titania got the Full Guard with a Chest Key on turn 4. Ike needed some bexp to survive enemy attacks.

Oh, and good luck with 23 and 27. I'm 90% sure a 23 3-turn clear is impossible without Sonic Sword Ike. Runesword Ike might not be necessary for a 27 3-turn, though.

Edited by Aeine, 18 June 2012 - 08:02 AM.

[Lord Raven]

Was this the run with the ridiculous Sonic Sword Ike crap? I remember following it on gfaqs, and dude you are fucking based

And I mean that in the Lil B context, not the basement context


EDIT: What was your Chapter 21 Strat?
Chapter 23 is something I'd like to hear too. You got two more turns than me on both chapters due to strategy and not recruitment or getting an item.
Chapter 26 I felt pretty bad about because Marcia just didn't cut it- I got +3 on that compared to you. I really don't know some of these specifics, though a forged Silver could've helped me out a ton.


I gotta finish this run. August, eh? It's been abandoned for like a year.

Edited by Lord Raven, 05 July 2012 - 11:24 PM.

[bottlegnomes]

Was this the run with the ridiculous Sonic Sword Ike crap? I remember following it on gfaqs, and dude you are fucking based

And I mean that in the Lil B context, not the basement context


EDIT: What was your Chapter 21 Strat?

The way Lil B wants people to mean it, or the way people actually mean it?

[Lord Raven]

The entire "looks like jesus fucks a lot of bitches makes tons of money" thing

[bottlegnomes]

So not the probably dropped on his head as a baby way.

[Olwen]

EDIT: What was your Chapter 21 Strat?

Boots Marcia carried Armorslayer Ike (so he could one round the generals with its one extra might) to the throne. You have to be careful with positioning so Reyson doesn't get attacked by anyone--I think I shoved/smited Reyson a total of maybe 6 tiles, not too sure. Marcia weakened Ena with the Laguz Lance. Anyway, Tanith carried Calill east of Ena so she could Meteor Calill twice in a row--also, Calill has to kill a knight in Marcia's way on turn 3. Reyson also has to be rescued-dropped, shoved/smited to reach Calill by turn 4 as well so she can get a double Meteor on Ena.

Chapter 23 is something I'd like to hear too. You got two more turns than me on both chapters due to strategy and not recruitment or getting an item.

I just used Sonic Sword Ike, really. That's all there is to it, other than the crit I had to get on Petrine with Marcia's forged Silver. Marcia also had a forged Javelin for turn 2. I did get Blizzard with Tanith.

I've gotten 4 turns on this chapter on my previous run, without Sonic Sword Ike.

Chapter 26 I felt pretty bad about because Marcia just didn't cut it- I got +3 on that compared to you. I really don't know some of these specifics, though a forged Silver could've helped me out a ton.

Well, I shoved/smited Reyson like 10 times (maybe less maybe more) on turn 1, then had him vigor Marcia w/Ike near the boss area on turn 1. Marcia killed the wyverns with her forged Silver Lance, iirc. Ranulf used a Laguz Stone and got vigored by Reyson on turn 2 because Marcia needed just one extra shove for some.. positioning I forgot about. I think it was so Marcia could drop Ike nearby without being in Bertram's range, but still be really close to the throne. Marcia went in front of Bertram with a forged Silver Lance on turn 2. Turn 3, just killed Marcia and seized with Ike.

The entire "looks like jesus fucks a lot of bitches makes tons of money" thing

Don't make me post a photo, now.

Edited by Aeine, 06 July 2012 - 03:28 AM.

[Lord Raven]

I meant 25, not 26. 26 was a solid 3 turn. Sorry!

[Olwen]

Mia, Ilyana, Calill and some others went west, while Largo and Tanith went east. I dropped Ike somewhere where the boss gets one-rounded by Killing Edge Ike on turn 1. After turn 1, Reyson went west to help Ilyana + Calill siege tome things on turn 3. Not much to say after turn 1, it was basically just killing as many stuff as possible. Ike with his remaining Sonic Sword uses helped kill some 2-range people on turn 3.

With Jill (who I was unable to get), you might even be able to get a 2 turn on that chapter, though I wouldn't count on it.

It's an awful, luck-reliant chapter and I'm glad I'm probably never going to do it again.

[Lord Raven]

Oh wait, your 3 turn was heavily luck based. That's alright, actually, but I hit 5 on that chapter and I'm not sure how I could've gotten anyone over there by Turn 3 or 4 to take out Petrine; I felt like there were too many pitfalls and enemies for any sort of reliable strategy to take place that lets me do that. I had Tormod siege the Archer and the Sniper w/ Reyson support so he could OHKO them, and against Petrine I had to use Marcia and a couple others (including two siege tome charges) to get a 5 turn, let alone a 3 turn.

Petrine is too powerful.



Why Ilyana and not Soren? I'd rather use Tormod anyway, so that's a moot point. Ilyana is my least preferred mage in this game by a long shot because she really doesnt have much going for her at all.

[Olwen]

Pitfalls don't matter in Chapter 23 thanks to your fliers.

Soren is difficult to train in 5 because of archers / other 2-rangers, even though it's a defense chapter; that's the only earlygame chapter he can be trained. Soren can get bexp in chapter 8 to catch up to Ilyana, but it's wiser to save bexp for people like Marcia, Oscar and Kieran. Ilyana, however, can easily gain a level in chapter 8 to become level 7, while Soren without bexp will still likely be behind at around level 4-5. Maybe even less.

Ilyana also has a support with Mia, which I thought would be crucial for chapter 25, for the both of them.

Ilyana also has a higher thunder rank, which may or may not be trivial, but I didn't want to risk it.

This playthrough proved that wasting bexp on Tormod is useless, that bexp is necessary for Oscar and Kieran to reach promotion by the beginning of 17-2. Soren / Ilyana would be a better alternative because Celerity doesn't help cut turns at all.

Edited by Aeine, 06 July 2012 - 09:48 AM.

[Lord Raven]

What it proved was that Makalov/Jill/Astrid are useless (though my own playthrough can prove that), because Oscar/Kieran can comfortably promote by 17-2.

I got the same TCs as you with a Soren that I trained, he was Level 5 or 6 or something by Chapter 8.

I think Nephenee is a way better candidate to handle 25 than Mia though, because she could make use of Wrath/Vantage pretty well with a couple forged javelins. But Celerity helps with more reliable strategies, ie Sonic Sword/Runesword-less Ike and sieging random bosses that a Marcia w/o a forged Silver and pull off. He's more durable and speedy than Soren and Ilyana at any rate, and his Magic is fine, so I'd still much prefer tormod over the other two trainwrecks.

[Olwen]

I got the same TCs as you with a Soren that I trained, he was Level 5 or 6 or something by Chapter 8.

With no bexp? Also, I got 5 turns instead of 6 on chapter 7.

I think Nephenee is a way better candidate to handle 25 than Mia though, because she could make use of Wrath/Vantage pretty well with a couple forged javelins.

Nephenee's a pretty good idea, and probably better than Mia, but I don't think it'd make a difference for 25, because all Mia had to do was kill a couple enemies anyway. The west isn't exactly packed.

I also picked Mia for the extra +hit Ilyana gains from the support, which helped execute an almost 100% reliable strategy for Chapter 27.

But Celerity helps with more reliable strategies, ie Sonic Sword/Runesword-less Ike and sieging random bosses that a Marcia w/o a forged Silver and pull off.

The extra 2 move doesn't make it any easier to reach Petrine at all on turn 3, due to the strategically placed wall that requires a flier to pass. Ilyana/Soren don't need the extra 2 move to reach Petrine on turn 3.

and his Magic is fine, so I'd still much prefer tormod over the other two trainwrecks.

Kieran wants bexp, Oscar wants bexp, Ike wants bexp, Marcia wants bexp, Mist wants bexp, why waste it on Tormod when I lost no turns at all from using Ilyana/Soren?

[Lord Raven]

With no bexp? Also, I got 5 turns instead of 6 on chapter 7.

Soren was Level 6, but I think he'd be a solid Level 5 if I took 1 less turn in Chapter 7. Level 5 Soren is about on par with base Ilyana, and Soren has better growths in the offensive region (her attack boost due to Thunder tomes is nullified by Soren having the Mage Band for Chapter 8, and having better Spd/Magic even if she has better Str).

Nephenee's a pretty good idea, and probably better than Mia, but I don't think it'd make a difference for 25, because all Mia had to do was kill a couple enemies anyway. The west isn't exactly packed.

Yeah I'd think of rescue dropping her north and making sure she can kill the horde of enemies.

The extra 2 move doesn't make it any easier to reach Petrine at all on turn 3, due to the strategically placed wall that requires a flier to pass. Ilyana/Soren don't need the extra 2 move to reach Petrine on turn 3.

Yeah but 3 turn of Chapter 23 is super hardcore. I've had a tough time navigating with fliers, because of the dumb ass ballistas that can off them pretty quickly. You only get one Full Guard in this game.

Kieran wants bexp, Oscar wants bexp, Ike wants bexp, Marcia wants bexp, Mist wants bexp, why waste it on Tormod when I lost no turns at all from using Ilyana/Soren?

They get enough BEXP and CEXP. My team was twice as big as Kieran/Oscar/Ike/Mist/Marcia and I had enough to give to Astrid/Makalov/Tormod/Soren/Boyd. Fuck making a team that big, by the way. I'm never doing that again!

Edited by Lord Raven, 06 July 2012 - 10:14 AM.

[Olwen]

They get enough BEXP and CEXP.

You had a stealth clear on Chapter 10, and more turns for cexp than this playthrough. It's very difficult, believe me.

[Lord Raven]

Stealth clear adds 1000 BEXP. I still used a team twice as big, meaning that each person was capable of gaining only around 2 extra levels; instead you'd transfer the 10 levels that were spent on five characters (2/char) to one character, on top of a lot of other BEXP you will have used on said characters, and placing them into Oscar/Kieran/Ike/Tormod/Mist/Marcia (is Mist really necessary? I suppose Rescue utility is dandy here and there, but then again I didn't use Forged Silver Marcia as much as I could've).

As for more turns, I had +1 and 2 on like 8 chapters, which is hardly that much. You don't gain that much CEXP in this game for the excess of 10 turns to be a big deal in terms of CEXP. There is plenty of BEXP floating around and once again, if I could support 10-11 people with stealth BEXP then you can support 6 people without stealth BEXP. Trust me, I know the kind of run you're doing, I just can't match some of the craziness that you pulled off (like Sonic Sword Ike being useful and that kind of stuff- this is the max Magic Sonic Sword Ike right?)

Edited by Lord Raven, 06 July 2012 - 11:36 AM.

[Olwen]

I think the problem here is the amount of bexp I needed to use. For example, I needed to RNG abuse Ike in the base rather than let him gain cexp due to needing magic level ups.

I had little to no bexp left at the end of the base parts in most chapters. I'll give you a few examples:

1) Marcia needing almost every point of bexp on Chapter 10 to get her to level 20 and promote.
2) Oscar and Kieran were level 16 by Chapter 16, even though they needed to be promoted by 17-2. My chapter 16 clear uses mostly Titania and Marcia, so they were basically able to gain only a level at most in that chapter. They needed a crapload of bexp to get to level 20 by Chapter 17.
3) Ike was only level 11 (pathetic, I know) on chapter 16, but this was because I was scared to get more than one level-up during chapters in case he didn't get a mag increase. I don't have the patience to restart chapters for multiple magic increases. I got him to level 18 on Chapter 16 so he could survive being ganged up on on turn 4.
4) Mist needs bexp as well for high magic Rescues. I used Rescue once in 23, 24 and 28, and I also used it twice in 27.

If I had a free extra 1000 bexp, I probably would have gone with Tormod over Ilyana.

If I used Tormod, I'd be unable to give as much bexp to Ike and Mist. Ike may not have the 20 magic required to be able to clear 23 almost by himself (apart from Petrine) due to a lack of bexp. Similarly, Mist needs really high magic to be able to rescue Tanith and Canto away herself.

Another problem with using Tormod is that Celerity doesn't get any extra kills that I needed him to get. The only chapter which Celerity would have been useful in was 27, which was easily solved with the use of a Rescue staff.

Edited by Aeine, 06 July 2012 - 11:53 AM.

[Lord Raven]

I figured as much. Some Spirit Dusts and a Mage Band is good assist for Ike's level ups, because he would have 30% magic growth under those circumstances. Though, a more reliable LTC (which would be more of my playstyle, so I wouldn't go for this 20 Magic Ike stuff that still blows my mind hahahah) would have access to more BEXP then for someone like Tormod etc :P

[Olwen]

I figured as much. Some Spirit Dusts and a Mage Band is good assist for Ike's level ups, because he would have 30% magic growth under those circumstances. Though, a more reliable LTC (which would be more of my playstyle, so I wouldn't go for this 20 Magic Ike stuff that still blows my mind hahahah) would have access to more BEXP then for someone like Tormod etc :P

My Ike had capped magic by level 3 promoted lol, it's not that hard. You should try it sometime... >_>.