34 replies to this topic

[I don't play for turns]

Stat-wise he's much better than the other cats, but he shares the gauge. 6.5/10 Including a +1 bias because he's so darn awesome.

[Starwave]

As for why people don't like Ranulf, you said it yourself; cat gauge is extremely restrictive. I consider him more of an albatross around my neck (read: a burden) in part 3 because cat laguz are that bad. Also, if you can say we're being overly critical, I can just as easily say you're coddling him. Needing to have him grass up every other player phase is a major inconvenience. Also, I call BS on cats having the best mastery skill in the game. And personally, I *really* am not very fond of non-royal laguz units in this game. More often than not, I feel like I got kicked in the nuts seeing them level up and get hardly anything for the trouble. And I ask you, in what universe is 1600 gold for one olivi grass "cheap"???

Just because a character requires precision, doesn't instantly make them worthless. You can't park him in front of several enemies. You CAN plan ahead and ensure he isn't out of laguz form on the EP. Just so you know You get more than enough free olivi grass from the game, so buying a few won't really kill your bank. Last I checked, the laguz cat mastery skill multiplied damage by 5 and is based on your speed stat, I don't really see how anything else can compete with that. Ranulf an unconventional character, true but those bases whi. Not even going to bother countering the no "1-2 range" arguments since they're laughable.

Regardless, I just don't see how any can score an upper mid tier character lower than a 5. Unless there's some groundshaking universal event that rendered Ranulf crappy overnight, I really think its just a case of personal experience deciding "everything."

PS: Where did the tier list thread go?

Edited by Starwave, 20 June 2012 - 02:38 PM.

[Peekayell]

Starwave- I myself dont like cats, no matter how OP ranulf's bases are. Because of that same thing you are saying. He cant go in and murder everything in EP because of his gauge. Having to limit EP exposure means he gets to kill only a few enemies and that means taking longer in a map.

[Vicious Sal]

[/size][/color]

Just because a character requires precision, doesn't instantly make them worthless. You can't park him in front of several enemies. You CAN plan ahead and ensure he isn't out of laguz form on the EP. Just so you know You get more than enough free olivi grass from the game, so buying a few won't really kill your bank. Last I checked, the laguz cat mastery skill multiplied damage by 5 and is based on your speed stat, I don't really see how anything else can compete with that. Ranulf an unconventional character, true but those bases whi. Not even going to bother countering the no "1-2 range" arguments since they're laughable.

Regardless, I just don't see how any can score an upper mid tier character lower than a 5. Unless there's some groundshaking universal event that rendered Ranulf crappy overnight, I really think its just a case of personal experience deciding "everything."

PS: Where did the tier list thread go?

Wind edge, storm sword, javelin, short spear, hand axe, short axe, very rare case of tempest blade/spear/tomahawk, iron bow, steel bow, silver bow, occasional knife. Wind, elwind, arcwind etc, fire, etc, thunder, etc.


Any three of those, and he loses 17 points of his gauge. and that is without even a shred of 1 range. (5 points of turn change). Oh, and 3-4 might be ok range wise, but is does have an occasional ballista, true, NPC's are targeted more. 3-7 is full of 2 range. 3-8 is even worse. 3-10 has bows everywhere, and a section of bishops. 3-11 is designed for 2 range with those sandbags. gauge sucks, period. It kills his use.



Also, lolmymasteryisbetterbuteveryoneelsesstillKO'stheenemyaswell



He gets a 4/10 And that is with bias.

[Levant Fortner]

Just because a character requires precision, doesn't instantly make them worthless. You can't park him in front of several enemies. You CAN plan ahead and ensure he isn't out of laguz form on the EP. Just so you know You get more than enough free olivi grass from the game, so buying a few won't really kill your bank. Last I checked, the laguz cat mastery skill multiplied damage by 5 and is based on your speed stat, I don't really see how anything else can compete with that. Ranulf an unconventional character, true but those bases whi. Not even going to bother countering the no "1-2 range" arguments since they're laughable.

Regardless, I just don't see how any can score an upper mid tier character lower than a 5. Unless there's some groundshaking universal event that rendered Ranulf crappy overnight, I really think its just a case of personal experience deciding "everything."

PS: Where did the tier list thread go?

*sigh* You just don't get it do you? I dislike Ranulf for most of the reasons you yourself stated, and the fact Radiant Dawn hates cats' guts only pushes the nail further in Ranulf's coffin. As for your statement about the cat's mastery skill, what's it matter when a mastery going off usually means the poor sap on the receiving end will be six feet under? Also, if you think Ranulf's tiering position means he should be getting good ratings, you must be really naive. For [EFF]'s sake, Rhys and Mist only averaged about 3, and they're mid tier! And I don't see how no 1-2 range is a laughable argument when it means the enemy can go "lawl I get to knock 4 points off your gauge and u can't do a thing".

Edited by Golden Cucco, 20 June 2012 - 03:16 PM.

[Dinfinitysignfina]

Eh... what is with the discrepancy between Ranulf's rating and his tiering position? He must have done something to earn being in upper mid... Disregarding the fact that his competition is utterly irrelevant, Ranufl is forced in many maps, so you're using him regardless of whether you like him or not. It's not place to say this, but I think you guys are being overly critical..

Anyway, I love Ranulf. As a character, he's the best Laguz in the game (reasonable to the point of absurdity) and he definitely keeps the army from falling apart with his quick thinking. Bias aside, I don't see what the hate is about. Yes, Cat Laguz have disgusting transformation gauges but Olivi grass is cheap, and he just needs to guzzle them every so often in order to maintain his laguz form, which kicks ass. (The GMs are not poor!) He's a high level unit that comes with awesome bases for his class. He doubles forever, has a decent enough strength to actually "kill" things, and his above average movement range makes him a good offensive unit. Giving him 4 levels of BEXP isn't that big of a deal at all (even in hard mode) unless you're dead set on not using him. Also, as a silver lining, since he's never leveling up via CEXP you can BEXP manipulate to get the right stat ups, making him even more of a threat than usual. The laguz cat mastery skill is also arguably the best in the game.

7.5/10 + 0.5 bias

8/10

I feel like you're only skimming over his weaknesses, especially that part I've bolded. No mention of 1-2 range either? I'm starting to get the feeling that your bias for Ranulf may be more than 0.5 points. Please redo.

[Starwave]

Ugh, i've got 2 term papers due but i can't focus on that since someone is wrong on the internet!

*sigh* You just don't get it do you? I dislike Ranulf for most of the reasons you yourself stated, and the fact Radiant Dawn hates cats' guts only pushes the nail further in Ranulf's coffin.

Irrelevant.

As for your statement about the cat's mastery skill, what's it matter when a mastery going off usually means the poor sap on the receiving end will be six feet under?

That was just a jab at your previous comment about the cat mastery skill "not" being the best. Clearly not the pillar of my argument.

Also, if you think Ranulf's tiering position means he should be getting good ratings, you must be really naive. For [EFF]'s sake, Rhys and Mist only averaged about 3, and they're mid tier! And I don't see how no 1-2 range is a laughable argument when it means the enemy can go "lawl I get to knock 4 points off your gauge and u can't do a thing".

Oh ok, so suddenly the work of users way more credible then you or I are rendered null in void because of a disagreement? Ok then. (Honestly, the findings of a 3+ year thread with hundreds of pages shouldn't be ignored). The 1-2 range issue can be circumvented by careful positioning of Ranulf, like I mentioned before. Often times people aren't willing and would sooner blame a character than admit their shortcomings. That said I won't press the issue further, I can see how things are going. *Unless a character is sexy, then they get of on being misrepresented scot free.

I feel like you're only skimming over his weaknesses, especially that part I've bolded. No mention of 1-2 range either? I'm starting to get the feeling that your bias for Ranulf may be more than 0.5 points. Please redo.

Here's this for a redo. I'd rather submit a 30 page essay on the intricacies of biblical studies than redo my vote for some ineffectually, conformist debutante. I've seen you accept way more skewed posts because they "agreed" with your point of view.

The best part is that you're totally willing to accept Sharpy's post despite the fact that its the exact same thing as mine (but shorter; it doesn't even mention 1-2 range as a flaw).

I read you loud and clear.

Edited by Starwave, 20 June 2012 - 06:17 PM.

[Levant Fortner]

Oh ok, so suddenly the work of users way more credible then you or I are rendered null in void because of a disagreement? Ok then. (Honestly, the findings of a 3+ year thread with hundreds of pages shouldn't be ignored). The 1-2 range issue can be circumvented by careful positioning of Ranulf, like I mentioned before. Often times people aren't willing and would sooner blame a character than admit their shortcomings.

It was actually me calling you out on your ideology, because I don't see how a character's tiering should tie in to how they get rated.

[Starwave]

A character's tiering should give some indication of how a character should be rated. I don't get why this is such a hard concept for you to grasp. Voting on a top / high tier is a no brainer, and most mid tier characters get rated highly (of course, stupid discrepancies like Calill being given a 6 should be considered) except Ranulf, because apparently it's too difficult to use him.

[Peekayell]

Ugh, i've got 2 term papers due but i can't focus on that since someone is wrong on the internet!

Yeah, except you're the one that's wrong so go back and do those papers.

[nano]

Personally I consider Flare to be the best mastery because of 1-2 range triggering and life steal.

[Levant Fortner]

A character's tiering should give some indication of how a character should be rated. I don't get why this is such a hard concept for you to grasp. Voting on a top / high tier is a no brainer, and most mid tier characters get rated highly (of course, stupid discrepancies like Calill being given a 6 should be considered) except Ranulf, because apparently it's too difficult to use him.

Okaaay... And yet we end up with stuff like Ilyana outscoring Rhys and Mist, both of who are higher tiered than her. Why is that?

[Starwave]

They're wrong?

The bias system obviously plays a role in this but there are a few things like enjoying Illyana's character (or lack thereof) over Rhys and Mist, not "actually" playing HM (Illyana is gutter trash in hard mode) and not really "thinking" about their vote. And before anyone gets on my case, i'm sure as hell not perfect (i've made my fair share of shoddy votes, though i'm working to improve myself).

Anyway PKL those papers are due in 1 week so i've got time.

[Dinfinitysignfina]

Gonna tally this now so that I can avoid the possible storm coming, and I really don't want to look for votes during said storm.

Yeah, I'm all about making my life easier. :>

Also, decided to count Starwave's vote after thinking about it.

Edited by Lucina, 20 June 2012 - 07:22 PM.

[Levant Fortner]

They're wrong?

The bias system obviously plays a role in this but there are a few things like enjoying Illyana's character (or lack thereof) over Rhys and Mist, not "actually" playing HM (Illyana is gutter trash in hard mode) and not really "thinking" about their vote. And before anyone gets on my case, i'm sure as hell not perfect (i've made my fair share of shoddy votes, though i'm working to improve myself).

Anyway PKL those papers are due in 1 week so i've got time.

I could say that the part about people not really thinking about their vote's true about Nephenee to an extent, you know; I just can't understand how she got a lot of 8s and even a couple of 9s when this is rating based on hard mode. That being said, though, I know that bias has a role in these.

Edited by Golden Cucco, 20 June 2012 - 07:42 PM.