102 replies to this topic

[eclipse]

Parents have a say in what children play with. My dad's ideas of toys for me when I was a kid were one of those pre-programmed toy computers with all sorts of word games and a construct-your-own set where you drop marbles from the top and watch them go through your creation before hitting the bottom. Mom got me dolls. Guess whose house I had more fun in?

[The_Purple_Knight]

In this documentary by by Norwegian comedian Harald Eia ; Eia reaches a very different conclusion then what most of you have on the role of biology in gender roles . I'd like to hear I everyone's opinion on it . Also on the subject of inequality manwomenmyth has posted a few documentaries on the subject of Misandry in current western society..

Edited by The_Purple_Knight, 27 July 2012 - 07:05 PM.

[eclipse]

Something with the words "terrible opinions".

The first linked video is NSFW. Secondly, the comments below said video are hilarious.

[The_Purple_Knight]

How it NSFW ? The comments are pretty hillarous though ...

[eclipse]

Watch the first three minutes of the video carefully. There's something there that conflicts with this site's ToS.

[CrashGordon94]

What is it Eclipse?

[The_Purple_Knight]

Yeah what are talking about eclipse ?

[Celice]

Did a pair really matter that much to warrant bringing them up?

[Bluedoom]

Crash and TPK, you should totally watch more pr0n, srsly.

[eclipse]

Did a pair really matter that much to warrant bringing them up?

Seeing as someone else I know of wound up suspended for it. . .yeah.

[Anouleth]

teehee This is gonna be an amusing thread. >w>

Any who.

Just depends how you're raised and what you observe in your surroundings. There's a reason why both genders gravitate toward gender "appropriate" things. It's just the way we were raised. After that it's up to the individual to decide what is and is not appropriate. Then again social pressures are a thing. I feel like I'm rambling on so whatevs.

Actually, that's not true. Gender identity is formed by more than just "the way you are raised": you can't raise a boy to be a girl. There have been cases of babies with genital abnormalities (almost always male) being given gender reassignment surgery and then raised as the opposite gender, and they usually end up identifying as their original gender.

[grandjackal]

Actually, that's not true. Gender identity is formed by more than just "the way you are raised": you can't raise a boy to be a girl. There have been cases of babies with genital abnormalities (almost always male) being given gender reassignment surgery and then raised as the opposite gender, and they usually end up identifying as their original gender.

That really just goes to show that people have less control over things than they think is all.

To which I transition into my thought that basically biologically, socially, the idea of a gender role is kinda silly. I would even go so far as to say that trying to identify oneself as a specific gender is poisonous in and of itself. It instills a style of thinking that "f I act this way, I must be this". It's basically trying to think too hard on something like a title. It would be better to just derive what appeals to you and learn from it rather than try to fit into a mold.

Then again, I'm kind of an oddball as it is. So, maybe that's just me.

[Celice]

Actually, that's not true. Gender identity is formed by more than just "the way you are raised": you can't raise a boy to be a girl. There have been cases of babies with genital abnormalities (almost always male) being given gender reassignment surgery and then raised as the opposite gender, and they usually end up identifying as their original gender.

Care to explain what this "identity" was, then? What was "it" that someone could actually believe they were?

[Thor Odinson]

That really just goes to show that people have less control over things than they think is all.

To which I transition into my thought that basically biologically, socially, the idea of a gender role is kinda silly. I would even go so far as to say that trying to identify oneself as a specific gender is poisonous in and of itself. It instills a style of thinking that "f I act this way, I must be this". It's basically trying to think too hard on something like a title. It would be better to just derive what appeals to you and learn from it rather than try to fit into a mold.

Then again, I'm kind of an oddball as it is. So, maybe that's just me.

I agree with this. I find people should just act as what they're comfortable with instead of forcing themselves down the acceptable gender role that may as well do not suit them. I myself have a more "stereotypically male" mannerism despite being very much female biologically, and while I am perfectly fine with "Lumi's a dude" jokes and comments since it matters not to me (I make those jokes anyway myself since I find them harmless when I myself am the recipient of it), it's when people try to force me into the ascribed mannerisms of what people perceive to be feminine that it becomes a problem. I act the way I act because I'm comfortable with it, whether it's a architypically "masculine" or "feminine" act, it does not matter. I'm sick of people trying to sway me towards being "feminine" and feminine only. People should not be forced to act in a certain way just because they're born with a certain type of genitals.

[eclipse]

I agree with this. I find people should just act as what they're comfortable with instead of forcing themselves down the acceptable gender role that may as well do not suit them. I myself have a more "stereotypically male" mannerism despite being very much female biologically, and while I am perfectly fine with "Lumi's a dude" jokes and comments since it matters not to me (I make those jokes anyway myself since I find them harmless when I myself am the recipient of it), it's when people try to force me into the ascribed mannerisms of what people perceive to be feminine that it becomes a problem. I act the way I act because I'm comfortable with it, whether it's a architypically "masculine" or "feminine" act, it does not matter. I'm sick of people trying to sway me towards being "feminine" and feminine only. People should not be forced to act in a certain way just because they're born with a certain type of genitals.

I'd say this is true up until the most extreme of cases. If you have a guy that's more comfortable using the women's bathroom, should he be allowed in there, despite making most (if not all) the women in there uneasy? Or what about a woman who prefers walking around outside naked to the waist, despite certain states outlawing it?

[Blademaster!]

Care to explain what this "identity" was, then? What was "it" that someone could actually believe they were?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

I don't know if that was the particular case that Anouleth had in mind or if there is more than one occurrence of such an event.

[Celice]

There's nothing in that article to suggest what the individual felt constituted its gender. Only that it chose, in the end, to be "male," as ambiguous as that sounds.

Because if Anouleth's case is meant to suggest that there are innate gender ideals in which an individual is based, they sure as hell better not be riddled with cultural affects of what constitutes male/female gender roles. Those are artificial constructs, ideals which are applied and taken from an outsider source, not from within. If an individual is to regress into an innate gender state, it should be something outside of acculturation, not within it.

[Eltoshen]

I'd say this is true up until the most extreme of cases. If you have a guy that's more comfortable using the women's bathroom, should he be allowed in there, despite making most (if not all) the women in there uneasy? Or what about a woman who prefers walking around outside naked to the waist, despite certain states outlawing it?

Yes, he should, actually. Ever heard of in-transition patients? Genetically men, but identify more with females and are in the process of taking hormones to change their gender (or visa verse)? Where should they go to use the restroom?

The purpose of restrooms it to take shits and piss, afterall; not to come to the decision as to whether you identify as a certain sex. The whole idea of separate rooms for 'males' and 'females' shouldn't exist. The whole basis of it assumes that all men are interested in is soliciting a female when really all they want to do is piss.

[eclipse]

Yes, he should, actually. Ever heard of in-transition patients? Genetically men, but identify more with females and are in the process of taking hormones to change their gender (or visa verse)? Where should they go to use the restroom?

The purpose of restrooms it to take shits and piss, afterall; not to come to the decision as to whether you identify as a certain sex. The whole idea of separate rooms for 'males' and 'females' shouldn't exist. The whole basis of it assumes that all men are interested in is soliciting a female when really all they want to do is piss.

Go where you'll end up creating the least amount of ruckus?

Part of using the bathroom involves undressing certain parts that aren't shown to the general public. If you honestly feel that you don't care if anyone sees your junk, more power to you. I'm not interested in dropping my pants in a bathroom with men, thankyouverymuch. Also, sources on that restroom assumption please.

[CrashGordon94]

The thing is, that they won't see your bits if you use a cubicle.