109 replies to this topic

[Othin]

You're thinking of S3. S2 is the one with Clone Anna and the village; there are no Pegasus Knights there.

Agreed on S1 being free. I don't like the idea of constraining sidequest times, though; the flexibility in progression is one of the nice additions and I don't see any reason to remove it. But then, I also disagree with the sidequests being required in the first place; I'd rather make them all optional with say 20 free turns. I especially want to bring up S17 for being ridiculous on Lunatic. I admit I haven't even tried it, but from the looks of it, I doubt it's even possible on Lunatic without grinding, even if you wait until endgame. Forming that kind of wall just doesn't work on that mode.

As for Nosferatu, if it was that weak for you, I don't think you were using it right. Sarya's accuracy problems are overstated; she can use Nosferatu well enough, and by the time the Sorcerers have Magic Slayer, she should have the skill as well, canceling it out. And as you noted, MU has the potential to be far better at it.

As for the free units, I'm in agreement about keeping Krom, MU, Frederick, and Lucina free, but not Olivia. As you noted, she's great, but not essential, even when trying to move fast.

Edited by Othin, 16 August 2012 - 12:52 PM.

[cheetah7071]

Yeah, S2 was slow because of a random brigand hiding out on the edge of the map. Having Sumia be able to take out even that single enemy would have sped me up by a turn potentially, as would having a competent non-MU team that can handle the initial wave without Fred helping out.

I'm going to be away from civilization for about a week starting tomorrow so I'll maybe do a chapter tonight and then that'll be it for a while.

[Lord Raven]

It's also a pain in the ass to take care of the Archers since Anna takes care of the Barbarians first. So you're stuck on 2 range. She dies quickly too, and traversing the Forests is a pain in the ass.

I don't like the idea of constraining sidequest times, though; the flexibility in progression is one of the nice additions and I don't see any reason to remove it.

I think if sidequests are required then there should be constraints, as in SX should be done immediately after Chapter Y. Though I think S1 should be completely free of the 20 turn thing if they aren't required, although I don't see how you could possibly beat a chapter in anything close to 20 turns in this game >_> I think the Mark/Azure sidequests should be allowed even if the two are not drafted, also.

As for Nosferatu, if it was that weak for you, I don't think you were using it right. Sarya's accuracy problems are overstated; she can use Nosferatu well enough, and by the time the Sorcerers have Magic Slayer, she should have the skill as well, canceling it out. And as you noted, MU has the potential to be far better at it.

Sariya has 45% skill growth and 5 base, I don't think Sariya's going to be very accurate until Tome slayer- and even when Tome slayer is active, it's only against tome users. Nosferatu wasn't weak necessarily (on Henry it was fairly bad), but I had to truck through with an MU that had Skill in the teens; Sariya's accuracy is going to be worse meaning that she has some problems getting Nosferatu hits later on against faster enemies like Swordmasters and even Berserkers. As for Nosferatu being weak, I wouldn't say it was weak, but MU didn't double much towards the latter part of the game so Nosferatu wasn't as effective as it could've been. I could not, for instance, put her in the middle of enemy lines and expect her to come out alright especially starting in Chapter 21.

[Othin]

And I'm saying such constraints would be pointless, only serving to restrict options for no reason.

On my HM run, I glued Sarya and Ronku together and had them take on about half of every map for the entire last third of the game alone, with no or minimal issues. It's worth noting that Skl isn't the only thing that impacts accuracy; you can get other bonuses. Dark Mage skills cut down on enemy Avoid, making them easier to hit, especially when they attack in melee. Blend together Curse, Crimson Curse, and an S-rank support, and you've got +40 Hit.

[Lord Raven]

I guess my problem was that MU went to Sorcerer and not Dark Mage.

And I'm saying such constraints would be pointless, only serving to restrict options for no reason.

I gave rationale as to if they are required- if they are required then I would be against giving the sidequests an option to be free on the rationale that people would get a much lower TC by taking it on at a different time than another. It would make S1-4 almost completely trivial, and they would essentially be pointless. All the more reason to make them free within 20 turns, I guess.

Edited by Lord Raven, 16 August 2012 - 02:13 PM.

[Othin]

I don't think that's much of a reason. People have a choice to make; they can play the map earlier to get the benefits earlier, or later to complete them easier and faster. There's nothing to gain from making rules preventing that.

Edited by Othin, 16 August 2012 - 02:38 PM.

[cheetah7071]

Chapter 6: 5/47
Lyrina is basically invincible now. She marries Krom after the chapter is over.

Chapter 7: 4/51
Lyrina hits level 20 in this one, so I'm going straight to chapter 8 instead of the gaiden, so I can get the master proof earlier. Richt managed to get some kills, and is progressing decently. Tiamo should be a big help, I finally have a second person who can double for a large speed bonus.

Character Level MHP STR MAG SKL SPD LUK DEF RES
Krom      15.18  31  14   3  15  16  11  14   5
Lyrina    20.00  32  15  19  16  19  11  13  11
Frederick  7.58  35  19   2  17  12   8  15   4
Vake       5.21  32  11   0   8   7   6   6   0
Richt      7.01  24   4  11+2 9   7  11   8   4
Mariabel   4.83  18   0   5   5   6   5   3   7+2
Tiamo      7.00  25   9   3  13  12+2 9   8   8

[Lord Raven]

Just a reminder to DO THIS DRAFT!!!! I also suggest we have a normal mode component on the side. Don't worry about turncounts too much, just be able to finish the chapter. The average player won't be worried about TCs until we get better at this game anyway. It's not *that* hard, your units will get enough EXP later on that Frederick taking a bunch of early game kills doesn't matter.


I also suggest we do a Classic Normal Mode component to test the waters with FE13 some more. HM seemed a little hard to do but it's still very manageable.




A thought I had were that in a four person draft, here are the definite first round picks;

Sumia > Liz > Tiamo > Mariabel


Tiamo and Sumia will cut a ton of early game turns. When flight really matters, Tiamo and Sumia exist to rescue drop Frederick. However, Liz and Mariabel have the benefit of flying Rescue and good range/Magic to use it with, because you can do Sage -> Falconknight (or in Mariabel's case, Valkyrie -> Falconknight) and do a lot of interesting things with Rescue. This is speculation, but given that many of the later chapters are boss chapters, you need someone that can bring a monster to the boss as opposed to the early game, where you need someone that can ferry and aid a monster.

The next round would be, out of Miriel, Sariya, Soiree, Serge, Velvet, and Olivia, we'd have Velvet > Serge > Sariya > Soiree or Miriel or Nono. Olivia is generally kind of useless. Sariya Velvet and Serge have very good durability and offense, Soiree and Miriel are up in the air because they're both unremarkable units. Miriel may be a little bit better because Soiree will have a harder time catching up (because Frederick kills the early game and she can't catch up). Nono has decent durability but is sort of useless.

I think we should have two mothers draftable that two people each will have (so two people with Miriel and two with Nono) and the last character will be drafted by all (so, everyone will have free Olivia). I think the last character will be Olivia because she sort of blows.

And as for the rest, we have
Libera, Vake, Richt, Tiki, Callum, Grego, Viole, Basilio, Gaia, Flavia, Sol, Ronku, Anna, Henry, Sairi, Donny, Lucina

One will remain undrafted, and that will always be Donny unless we have some rule that lets sidequests be completely free (so we can build up Donny more easily). I think Ronku will be first to go because of his great offense, then Anna cause of healing + great offense with Levin Sword, Libera, Henry, Grego, Sairi, Gaia, Lucina, Callum, Vake, Sol, Richt, Flavia, Basilio, Viole, Tiki in that order. Last pick being a free unit isn't something I'd be opposed to.

I also do not agree that Lucina is free, the only free units should be Krom/MU/Frederick.

Edited by Lord Raven, 21 August 2012 - 01:01 PM.

[Heavy Weapons Ike]

Update time~
Chapter 5: 9/32

Many attempts were tried, but then I learn about "Krom and Frederick". :P

Chapter 6: 6/38

Frederick flies solo while the rest go fight Fauder. Krom kills him with a crit.


Onward to Sidequest 1!

[cheetah7071]

I'm back in civilization, and ready to play again. I'll edit this post once I've completed a chapter.

I'd probably be up for a normal mode draft once this one is completed, but we'll have to see.

Chapter 8: 6/57
If I didn't want all the villages, this chapter would have been a lot easier and probably a turn faster, as I could have had had Tiamo/Krom or something like that take care of the left-hand enemies and had Fred/MU take the bottom. But I really wanted the change proof and master proof, so here I am. Tiamo is pretty good right out of the box, way better than any of the other people I've drafted (though Mariabel is up to 4-range rescues after a magic potion now, so that's neat).

Edited by cheetah7071, 22 August 2012 - 05:36 PM.

[Lord Raven]

I'm literally just doing the rules and characters in this draft but in normal mode. So far it's really easy... I think hard mode might be the better mode to draft.

[cheetah7071]

Sidequest 3: 4/61
Tiamo is amazing (when beefed up with a str pot, def pot, energy drop and Vake double). MU is amazing (without any effort required at all). It was a bit tricky not having to use the turn 5 player phase, but rearranging Tiamo and Frederick's roles worked out.

Character Level          Class  MHP STR  MAG SKL  SPD LUK DEF RES
     Krom 16.40           Lord   31  14    3  15   17  12  15   5
   Lyrina  2.67    Grandmaster   37  18   23  18   21  11  16  13
Frederick  9.19   Great Knight   37  21    2  19   12   9  15   4
     Vake  5.32        Fighter 27+5  11    0   8    7   6   6   0
    Richt  7.11           Mage   24   4 11+2   9    7  11   8   4
 Mariabel  6.30      Troubador   20   1    6   7    7   7   4 9+2
    Tiamo 10.45 Pegasus Knight   27  12    5  15 14+2  11   8   9

[cheetah7071]

Chapter 9: 5/66
It's very important that you finish by the turn 5 player phase, or a bunch of reinforcements show up.
In other news, I wouldn't be surprised if MU ends up banned like Seth. I've used her more or less normally up to this point, and she was still soloing half the map with no double partner.

Sidequest 4: 5/71
I hope nothing good was in the chests, because I sure didn't open them.

Chapter 10: 3/74
Doubled MU and Tiamo, rescued Tiamo forward, rushed the boss. Got the master proof thief but the others escaped.

Chapter 11: 3/77
MU soloed her way through the right-hand enemies and Gangrel's crew. Tiamo and Frederick cleaned up the left side. Frederick ended the chapter at level 10, so I reclassed him to dragonmaster.

Chapter 12: 5/82
4 turns is probably possible. MU definitely needs to be considered for banning. My strategy was to just send her on a rampage, and have Tiamo, Krom, and Serge mop up what remained.

Chapter 13: 1/83
Nice and easy. Tiamo kills the enemy blocking the path, MU double into Frederick, Frederick gets rescued and moves up by the boss.

Edited by cheetah7071, 23 August 2012 - 04:01 PM.

[cheetah7071]

Might as well bump the thread.

Sidequest 12: 12/free
Mark is basically a second MU, it's insane. Lucina is much worse than Krom, and Krom isn't even all that amazing right now so whatever. She did inherit Rainbow Cry, and spent the entire chapter spamming it. Picked up the Fortify staff but missed the other treasure.

Character Level          Class  MHP  STR  MAG SKL  SPD LUK DEF RES
     Krom  1.81    Master Lord   39   21    4  20   20  15  20   9
   Lyrina 18.14    Grandmaster   50   21   35  28   31  19  21  21
Frederick  1.12  Dragon Master   36   22    2  22   14   9  12   6
     Vake  5.83        Fighter 27+5   11    0   8    7   6   6   0
    Richt  7.88           Mage   24    4 11+2   9    7  11   8   4
 Mariabel  8.25      Troubador   21    1    8   8    9   8   5 9+2
    Tiamo  1.85   Dark Pegasus   44   18    9  22 21+2  13  17  16
   Libera  4.61    Battle Monk   42   14   17  14   16  11  13  18
   Olivia  2.53         Dancer   19    4    2   9   10 5+4   4   3
    Serge 18.06    Dracoknight   37 19+2    1  16   16  12  18   2
   Lucina 11.86           Lord   36   16   12  20   22  16  16   9
     Mark  1.00    Grandmaster   47   24   26  26   27  19  22  19

Tiamo ate a bunch of statboosters, she isn't naturally that blessed.

Chapter 14: 1/84
Easy Peasy.

Edited by cheetah7071, 23 August 2012 - 05:35 PM.

[cheetah7071]

Chapter 15: 3/87
Mark took the bulk of the enemies. MU took the beach. Tiamo and Serge took the stragglers.

Chapter 16: 4/91
MU promoted to Dark Knight. I'm going to have Mark go Nosferatank, and I didn't need two, so I went for higher movement. Dark Knight seems safer than Dark Pegasus with all the bows everywhere.
Serge promoted to Griffon Knight and started working towards carrier.

Chapter 17: 5/96
Boy do I hate this boss a ton. Second hardest boss in the game, after the final boss.

Chapter 18: 4/100
Getting the 4-turn is actually kinda tricky, and likely next to impossible with sorcerer MU. Having two invincible murderhouses (MU and Mark) was basically a neccesity for this turncount.



Aaaaaaand getting tiki recruited seems like it might be impossible without some crazy rescue shenanigans that I haven't been able to think of yet. Even with higher levels, I just don't have the 10+ competent units that are necessary to recruit her. I'll think more about it later.

Edited by cheetah7071, 24 August 2012 - 12:49 AM.

[cheetah7071]

Just to know a baseline of what's possible, did you manage to recruit Tiki, Lord Raven?

[Lord Raven]

Yeah I managed to. It's not too bad but I had to form a sort of pentagon. My MU wasn't nearly as good as yours either (Miledy decided that Speed and Skill were overrated stats) so MU died a couple times even Nosferatanking. Then again, I also had around the 10+ competent units that I needed... it's hard to put a limit to MU's leveling in this game.

Edited by Lord Raven, 24 August 2012 - 02:00 AM.

[cheetah7071]

Sidequest 17: 7/94

Ended up recruiting Tiki after all, because the AI in this stage is weird and quirky.

Rescued Tiki to the back wall, then set up this formation:

MU    Tiki     Tiamo
  Krom     Mark
      Serge

Mark was able to rainbow cry for everyone but MU, who didn't need it. This stage is also the only time I have seen an enemy fail to go for a kill--they seem to prioritize getting as close to tiki as possible, and then decide who to attack after they've made their movement. It's very bizarre.

6 or even 5 turns should be possible if you don't care about recruiting Tiki. I'll have to see if using her saves those two turns.

[Lord Raven]

What are you talking about? If Tiki dies, then it's game over.

[cheetah7071]

What are you talking about? If Tiki dies, then it's game over.

No it isn't. The chapter continues and the enemy reverts to the usual AI.

Sidequest 10: 12/free
Selena probably won't be useful. Tiki, however, immediately proved her worth by soloing the entire left half with an ordinary dragonstone, not even wasting her true dragonstone.