Limit Break is a terrible skill

[Faye]

You know, at that stage, it'd probably be quicker to grind LB3 or something than EXPonential Growth.

I tried this out on the bus trip home. Dude, I had no idea. I really underestimated how well 50 enemies can level up one unit. D: Time to spam LB3.

[shadykid]

If you don't have enough Limit Breaker scrolls yet, is all. Otherwise LB3 has more enemies and a campable fort.

they both have 50....?

besides even in RaR3 you can just kill Linus first and skip turns all day (Jaffar probably isn't getting you with Lethality at that point)

[I.M. Gei]

RaR3 also gets pretty wank with everything having a Breaker skill.

[shadykid]

RaR3 also gets pretty wank with everything having a Breaker skill.

i have never noticed enemy breaker skills after having Limit Break equipped

besides, I double and 2HKO them with a brave weapon so i'll take ~60 hit

Edited April 13, 2013 by shadykid

[AstraLunaSol]

RnR3>LB3 only when you have capped/near capped stats (before limit break), armsthrift/sol and use a really good weapon. Otherwise you'll probably get toasted.

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

Okay, I guess look at it this way: The balance issue at the core is overcentralization - when a single choice is so broken that the value of every other choice is measured against it. I know, I know. FE13 is 99.9% a single-player game effectively. Balance is less important here than in other games. I get that. But the reality is that the game is giving you a boatload of choices of skills that you could be using, then essentially creating one skill soes immensely powerful that either A) you have it and your power is drastically increased, or B) you don't have it and you're forever far weaker than you could be.

I know, I know. People bring up Galeforce. As cool as Galeforce is though people are realising it's not the uber skill it's often thought of as - for one, it is only during the player phase, and for two, it's basically null on a Spotpass team because if a unit were to get a kill your 'opponent' would restart anyway. Nevermind the part where not everyone can get Galeforce - Galeforce is, ultimately, not an 'automatic' in building the strongest units possible, but just a highly favourable option. That's how it's different from Limit Breaker.

There's a lot of ways to break the game in Fire Emblem games, and a lot of really powerful choices - but it's very, very rare than any single choice is "If you don't use this your power is dropping dramatically" (MAYBE the closest thing would be Seth in FE8 IF you're insistant on ignoring non-main-game events/purchases. Maybe.) Within the bounds of FE13 and creating strong teams, either you have limit break or you don't and the power difference is huge.

Exactly. Limit Breaker is in effect at all times and makes such a tremendous difference that nothing else even comes close. It's like having Rally Spectrum, Rally Heart (minus the +1 Mov), and every other Rally active at all times. It works during StreetPass and Double Duel. It is, in every situation, the best option for any unit that will see combat. Heck, even staffbots could use the extra +5 range.

It's also worth noting that the argument "It's a tradeoff!" holds basically no water. Every skill is a tradeoff, in that you can only have five total because that's how many slots you have. Using any skill denies the use of any other skill in that slot, and using some group of five skills denies being able to use any others since you're full.

The problem with Limit Breaker is it's basically arguable that it is by far the best option in all circumstances, because there is never a time when you wouldn't want to have +10 to all stats and there are basically no combinations of 5 skills that are going to be better than that, even in highly specialized build circumstances (I can design an awesome support unit with movement/support skills, but Limit Breaker is STILL going to be on that list because I want the extra STR/MAG/SKL/DEF/RES).

The one exception I can see (aside from "I'm not grinding and thus will never even hit most caps") is when you happen to know that regular capped stats are "good enough" to beat a map. And technically I suppose this is the case for most 1-3 star DLC maps and certainly everything in the main storyline. But that just basically makes the argument Nowi's capped stats level-up quote: You're so strong you don't actually need to bother trying. You're still going to use skills, and those skills + capped stats are still going to curbstomp the map. But of all the ways that would curbstomp, really only Limit Breaker helps curbstomp faster and more reliably. It can turn 2HKOs with crap weapons into clean 1HKOs for example, and it serves as a pseudo-Rightful King for activation skills thanks to the extra SKL. To say nothing of having +10 more SPD, DEF, and RES. So the circumstances where it isn't "necessary," it's still basically the best.

The +10 Lck makes Armsthrift, Despoil, and Miracle significantly better, too.

I kinda see where the OP is coming from.LB really is so good that it is going to be chosen. And if it's readily available and you can be asked to do R&R3 a bunch, there's no way you wont use it. If you're given an ultimate way of dealing with an obstacle, you're gonna use it. And even if you challenge yourself not to, it's like "Eh, whatever. I can just get (ultimate method insert here) and try again" if you fail.

That said, LB doesn't come into use until Late-to-post game when your team's already superhero material. By then only the most difficult maps will challenge you.

In the end I'd say that it kinda makes things more boring (I could get a cool attack skill, but LB is so good I just gotta include it and that cool attack is gonna get cut), but it's not too big a deal.

Exactly. The elation you feel at seeing your caps raised is tempered with the knowledge that, when Limit Breaker is actually necessary (read: TSON), you're basically playing with only 4 skills, rather than 5, because the devs know you'll have LB on your units if you're going to face TSO.

because this is worth repeating:

The post you quoted was probably the least constructive among those that were on topic. Also blatantly false, as evidenced by some other posts in this thread.

[shadykid]

Exactly. The elation you feel at seeing your caps raised is tempered with the knowledge that, when Limit Breaker is actually necessary (read: TSON), you're basically playing with only 4 skills, rather than 5, because the devs know you'll have LB on your units if you're going to face TSO.

i wouldn't be so confident about this

[Renall]

Okay, once you have a farm unit I figured out how to pretty much ensure R&R3 is 100% safe: Deploy God Unit SW of Chrom, have Chrom Pair Up with them, mash End Turn. On Turn 8, Jaffar is 2 squares to your right, so just blow him up. Very next turn Linus is in range, move one square east and blow him up. Mash End Turn to close out the map.

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

i wouldn't be so confident about this

Why not? Anyone who attains the Ultimate Emblem will almost certainly have Limit Breaker on their combat units, since the enemies will be absurdly strong. The sort of person who'd buy TSON would also likely buy R&R3.

[Othin]

If you have a good deal of units ready for Limit Breaker, you shouldn't be having trouble with R&R3. Just pair them up and scatter them around the field, making sure to quickly eliminate Jaffar and Linus with ranged attacks.

Although if you have specific units you want to focus on, they'll get a hell of a lot more Exp in less time on LB3, since you can do it in like two turns with three pairs. And if you're going to be doing serious grinding you'll want as many Paragon scrolls as Limit Breaker scrolls.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Othin

[PuffPuff]

Only My Unit, on 10 Apr 2013 - 6:15 PM, said:

Limit break helps fight Lunatic and Lunatic+.

I wouldn't say that since the DLC chapters get alot more difficult than the main game especially on harder difficulties. It verylikely that you won't get it anyway without maxed stats on Lunatic.

Iridium, on 10 Apr 2013 - 8:20 PM, said:

By the time you're able to get Limit Break, you should be done with the main story unless you've been grinding so much that the rest of the game has already been trivialized.

Exactly. =)

The Masque of Barona, on 11 Apr 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

Limit Break "breaks" the game, yeah, and I don't like how R&R3 & TSON are practically unbeatable without it, but so what?

Redeemers 3 is unbeatable without it. You start with none. It will just get alot easier with it.

Meteor, on 11 Apr 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

Does anyone know what happens when you fight a Streetpass team which has Limit Break equipped, when you don't have the DLC yourself?

http://www.serenesforest.net/fe13/skills.html

It can't be used if DLC is not installed.

Søren, on 11 Apr 2013 - 11:29 PM, said:

Defeating the Strongest One is what matters to me.

That's...kinda lame, actually. I want to fight all maxed enemies, with progressively nastier skills. Dragonskin, Vantage+, two Breaker skills, and one special skill on all enemies. Pavise+ on Generals, Aegis+ on Paladins, Luna+ on Great Knights, Hawkeye on Snipers, Astra+ on Swordmasters, etc. Heck, with the exception of Lethality, all of their skills should always activate. I want them to Rally like their lives depend on it. Bring on the forged effective, Superior, and Brave weapons! Fortify staves and Elixers to heal all the enemies! Manakete Morgan will feast on their hearts!

...Sorry, what were we talking about?

So does anyone. =D

If u have the Japanese version, u can do it right now!

Faye, on 12 Apr 2013 - 6:44 PM, said:

Man, why couldn't Stat-Boosting items and/or Rift Doors be more easily available? Limit Break doesn't seem that useful to me anymore. "OTL

I dunno.

But it takes alot of time to get those stat up items out in skirmishes.

Edited April 14, 2013 by ポーラ

[BlueFire]

I believe the effects of the DLC skills are still in effect when battling a streetpass team if you don't have the skills' DLC installed.

Edited April 14, 2013 by BlueFire

[Rawkstar]

I don't understand why some of you guys are complaining about this so much. Seriously, how ungreatful can you guys get? Intelligent Systems decided to make this skill as a little addition to the game. It's not required in any way, shape or form, it's only there if you want to get it. And if you do get it, what exactly are you so upset about? It raises stat caps by 10. Stronger attack/magic, high chance of a hit/causing an enemy to miss, higher chance of a double strike/less chance of getting doubled, more luck, higher defense and resistance...by up to 10. How exactly is that a bad skill? So what if it takes up a skill spot, it's still the best damn thing that could happen to ANY character. And if you REALLY don't like it, you can always unequipt it between battles. So if you feel like it takes away the fun, just unequipt it, and re-equipt it whenever you want it.

And before someone starts an arguement with my post or someone elses, just remember what this is; it's simply a way for Intelligent Systems and Nintendo to make a little extra money. Nothing more. But at least we get something out of it, so stop complaining.

[Airship Canon]

http://www.serenesforest.net/fe13/skills.html

It can't be used if DLC is not installed.

If you don't have the DLC, it'll "show" as Outrealm skill, and it'll be active (so Streetpass Teams with LB will have their increased Caps always). If you recruit an MU with it, it'll disappear from their skills list. (Don't know if LB caps will be retained for Class Change or eventual obtaining of the skill though).

Same goes for any other DLC skill. (Paragon obviously does not work unless it's obtained as "Outrealm Skill" by having the DLC, and pulling your SD card, because enemy units don't gain EXP.)...

Other note: If an MU is a Dread Fighter or Bride, and you don't have that DLC (causing "Outrealm Class") you'll be unable to recruit that MU. If you obtain a L <15 Outrealm Class in your party (by having the appropriate DLC and pulling your SD card) and level them to 15, they will -not- gain Aggressor or Bonds.

Yes, it's possible to beat a Streetpass team with LB caps without LB. (Two words: Pair Up.)

Also, yes, it's globally used. At least it isn't counterintuitive like freaking Nihil, gods. In fact, Limit Break works opposite to Nihil- it IMPROVES the chances for stuff. (+10 SKL: +20% Vengeance (hello 100% vengeance), +10% Ignis/Luna/Sol, +5% Astra/Aether, +2% Lethality; +10 LCK: +20% Armsthrift, +10% Miracle) It's absolutely great. At least if they're gonna have a globally used skill, it doesn't ruin the game by making it boring as hell. *coughendgameFE10cough*

Edited April 14, 2013 by Airship Canon

[dondon151]

Let me go ahead and translate that for you.

...

This topics title could have been chosen better, but I'm not so sure he deserved that...

if that's all that you think i meant, you're not a very good translator.

there are what, ~90 skills in this game? a bit more than that. assume that any given character has access to all 90 skills. with limit break, you have 4 empty slots. without limit break, you have 5 empty slots. there are 2.56 * 10^6 combinations of 4 skills and 4.39 * 10^7 combinations of 5 skills.

of course, not all 90 skills are usable. probably not very many of them are any good at all. a more conservative estimate would be maybe a pool of 20 skills that you'd willingly use. there are 4845 combinations of 4 skills and 15504 combinations of 5 skills.

now, obviously 4 skills yield a much smaller pool of viable combinations, but you can't seriously complain that there are only thousands of possible skillsets if limit break is a given skill. imagine for a moment that limit break never existed by any given character could only carry 4 skills. well, then, y'all would be either perfectly satisfied for that or clamoring for a skill capacity of 5. after all, 5 is greater than 4. and 6 is greater than 5, and so on.

the other complaint is that you have to have limit break for certain optional maps. well, okay, but consider any other game where you have to have high stats or the best weapons in order to contend with the most powerful enemies in the game. this is no different. the fact that limit break is DLC exclusive (correct me if i'm wrong) is kind of dumb, but IS likes these kinds of incentives to get DLC. who doesn't want a super awesome skill?

Edited April 14, 2013 by dondon151

[BlueFire]

Personally, I am only making a comment on how it was implemented. I don't mind the skill existing at all and I don't blame them for making great skills DLC, because its a smart idea to make money.

My critique is that the number should be lower than +10 because they would still make a lot of sales but the skill could compete for a slot instead of automatically having one. Nobody here really thinks that they will make IS change the game. It's Fire Emblem discussion.

[Happy_Dingo]

if that's all that you think i meant, you're not a very good translator.

If it's not all you meant then you must not have a very good grasp of the english language.

boo hoo no one is sad that you have C(n,4) skillsets available instead of C(n,5)

Then again you could be right. My trollish is a little off.

[PK Gaming]

It's useless in an a regular playthrough and recommended (not even required) for a few DLC maps

whats the issue?

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Because it MIGHT be neccesary for some of the harder stuff?

AFAIK the more common reasoning for LB are the fact that it is neccesary for those harder stuff for people who want to skip LB

[shadykid]

Because it MIGHT be neccesary for some of the harder stuff?

AFAIK the more common reasoning for LB are the fact that it is neccesary for those harder stuff for people who want to skip LB

oh noes Limit Break is necessary (or so we think for the moment) for the harder route of the very last DLC map!

really

really now

[euklyd]

boo hoo no one is sad that you have C(n,4) skillsets available instead of C(n,5)

If it's not all you meant then you must not have a very good grasp of the english language.

Then again you could be right. My trollish is a little off.

While I agree that the OP does not deserve such scorn, dondon does make a very good point, and this has nothing to do with trolling. C(n,5) means something very specific and relevant - in a case such as this, where you have a pool of 94 possible skills (including Limit Breaker), n = 94.

C(94,5) is the number of combinations of any 5 of these 94 skills, and C(93,4) is the number of combinations in which one of the skills is Limit Breaker.

When the pool of "useful" skills is arbitrarily shrunk to 20, you STILL get 4845 combinations where you have Limit Breaker. Granted, not all of these will be useful combinations of skills, but it is a lot to choose from.

/rant over

My thoughts on the matter are these:

Limit Breaker uses up a skill slot, yes, and it trivializes much of the game (including R&R3 on Lunatic). Nosferatu does the same thing with an inventory slot, and I've seen many people here complain about it trivializing the game. Some people refuse to play using it, but few argue that it shouldn't be in the game. Granted, Nosferatu has a history in FE, but really, if you don't like it, don't use it.

I personally enjoy curb-stomping teams of Risen, or the final boss, occasionally. But not all the time, so I often turn it off.

For me, it's not an issue.

Hmm, I hope that wasn't also a "rant".

[BlueFire]

In single-player matters, anyone can choose to increase or decrease the difficulty by choosing to use or not use certain aspects of the game.

When it comes to trying to build a harder team to kill, Limit Break can easily claim a spot if you have the DLC.

In any case, I am not displeased by the skill's existence. I can only say I believe it would have been better implemented with a lesser effect.