Rate the unit day 20: Nowi

[Colonel M]

I don't quite understand what you mean. Could you please explain?

It's a little more justified than the other 4/10s.

If Vaike is getting Cordelia why is he getting a second seal? Cordelia doesn't need speed and Warrior!Vaike gives her 8 strength and 5 defense at A or S support if he got nothing but empty levels. Which isn't happening. Vaike does just as well as Frederick at supporting Cordelia and doesn't have to lose axes if he wants to fix his speed. (although switching Vaike to Hero or Berserker hurts Cordelia).

Well pessimistically there's 0% growths, but yes yes I get it.

I like the crits.

[Da Bear]

I hate it when quotes fall out of their boxes...

Thanks for the response! I was wondering what exactly you meant.

[Mighty Kamina]

If this were Lunatic mode I would rate him 8.5/10 because until paralouge 1 most of your units won't be able to survive combat against an enemy he hadn't weakend, but since this is hard mode most of your units will surpass him quickly and he isn't even needed at all and he falls behind quite quickly so I'll give him a 6/10

Edited May 23, 2013 by Zelos

[charlie_]

Mostly the way a Jagen should be, to be honest. Really good at the beginning, but inevitably falls off unless you really invest in him. Will still remain a good support bot, though, with a bonus Dual Guard+.

8/10

I will gladly steal echo this rating.

[Anacybele]

This is a terrible idea if you're using Frederick he wants a Pegasus or bust, because while his speed is his biggest flaw resistance is almost as bad.

Speed? A bigger flaw than resistance? lol no. Frederick's speed growth is actually decent while his res growth is horrible. Plus, he's a Great Knight, and their res is always their weakness. But then I can fix that with a +resistance Avatar. Not to mention I just have Frederick avoid the mages for the most part anyway.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Anacybele

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Speed is his biggest flaw

Starting at 10 base is already annoying. Adds in the chance of getting Speed Screwed, and growth speed being absurdly low and it adds up. I already have problem with Stahl, but Frederick is basiclaly Stahl, but worse when it comes to this problem. Basically IMO, the more speed screwed Freddy is, the faster he is forced as a Pair Up Fodder.

Res only matters when those Troll Valks shows up, so its quite a problem, but not as much as speed

Frederick is totally Marcus

[Da Bear]

Speed? A bigger flaw than resistance? lol no. Frederick's speed growth is actually decent while his res growth is horrible. Plus, he's a Great Knight, and their res is always their weakness. But then I can fix that with a +resistance Avatar. Not to mention I just have Frederick avoid the mages for the most part anyway.

So he has to avoid mages? And you don't consider that a minus? lolwut? And I was answering a +speed avatar if you want to hurt your avatar by going +resistance that's just another minus for Frederick.

Also you seem to have a rough time grasping that with Frederick his bases matter a good deal more than his growths for his early-game performance (which you all are overrating imo). His 10 speed base, as pointed out by JSND, is terrible. His growth isn't good enough to make up for that.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

I did not exactly rate him based on his early performance

Hes pretty much what I would like to have from a utility character, and discipline is too pro

[Da Bear]

I did not exactly rate him based on his early performance

Hes pretty much what I would like to have from a utility character, and discipline is too pro

He doesn't have any utility over other characters past the early-game from what I've found...

Could you explain?

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Ehh its rather biased but here we go

He offers Weapon Triangle over Vaike, can tag in during those early parts of the game for some exp, which is those early game where the early units sucked.

During the Valm arc, his hammering can be used, and he can also use Armorslayer

End of the game, he still can assist using Silver Lance pair up attacks.

Having Discipline helped him build up his weapon ranks, which is pretty cool since he joined from day 1.

Can I say see my playlog? I have a paper to do

[Colonel M]

His Speed is decent enough to last - and with Pair Up and Speed Tonics available (the latter quite early, I may add), he's really not that bad. He only slows down near Valm, and you can still fix him with the Speedwings presented. Yes, there's competition with the Speedwings, but Fredrick has pulled his weight throughout the game whether you want to admit it or not. Even if he is doomed to being a Pair Up Bot, he's in a good class for it - base 4 Str, Def, and +1 Mov to help out as well. Fredrick also has the upper hand on slayer weapons since he starts at a modest D with Swords and Axes - which means Hammers and Wyrmslayers at base. The only thing that kind of works against Fredrick is that Sumia may not always be in play, but if you're keeping Fredrick around you might as well take Sumia with you. Besides, look at Sumia's other candidates:

- Chrom

- Gaius

- Henry

Henry is kind of a late bloomer while Chrom and Gaius really have nothing going with Sumia's Pair Up combination. Then her only two other supports are Cordelia (...) and Sully (okay, this one is... okay for a little while. Maybe slips of it in earlygame).

Even if you used Fredrick strictly for earlygame, what did he cost you? lolEXP? Come on, Seth and the other so-called Jeigans did it too. FFS, look at FE6 Marcus - and I sure as hell wouldn't give the old man a 4/10. He might not be stupidly clutch after a certain point, but to say he can't hold his own weight for a while without any real assistance barring Pair Up and maybe Tonics is a little ridiculous. I can contest his lategame being shoddy, but at that point you have statboosters like Naga's Tear and Speedwings that can patch the work. Competition and Opportunity Costs exist, yes, but it's not like Fredrick sat and twiddled with his thumbs up his ass like some of the characters did (Virion...).

[Da Bear]

His Speed is decent enough to last - and with Pair Up and Speed Tonics available (the latter quite early, I may add), he's really not that bad. He only slows down near Valm, and you can still fix him with the Speedwings presented. Yes, there's competition with the Speedwings, but Fredrick has pulled his weight throughout the game whether you want to admit it or not. Even if he is doomed to being a Pair Up Bot, he's in a good class for it - base 4 Str, Def, and +1 Mov to help out as well. Fredrick also has the upper hand on slayer weapons since he starts at a modest D with Swords and Axes - which means Hammers and Wyrmslayers at base. The only thing that kind of works against Fredrick is that Sumia may not always be in play, but if you're keeping Fredrick around you might as well take Sumia with you. Besides, look at Sumia's other candidates:

- Chrom

- Gaius

- Henry

Henry is kind of a late bloomer while Chrom and Gaius really have nothing going with Sumia's Pair Up combination. Then her only two other supports are Cordelia (...) and Sully (okay, this one is... okay for a little while. Maybe slips of it in earlygame).

Even if you used Fredrick strictly for earlygame, what did he cost you? lolEXP? Come on, Seth and the other so-called Jeigans did it too. FFS, look at FE6 Marcus - and I sure as hell wouldn't give the old man a 4/10. He might not be stupidly clutch after a certain point, but to say he can't hold his own weight for a while without any real assistance barring Pair Up and maybe Tonics is a little ridiculous. I can contest his lategame being shoddy, but at that point you have statboosters like Naga's Tear and Speedwings that can patch the work. Competition and Opportunity Costs exist, yes, but it's not like Fredrick sat and twiddled with his thumbs up his ass like some of the characters did (Virion...).

The problem here is that those staboosters that show up around Valm are almost certainly being used to get the children going not to slow Frederick's descent.

The loss of EXP is important to me because I prefer to use as many people as possible and like my rating said training Frederick comes at the cost of training 2 or 3 other characters.

Also when was I denying that he can do well as a support unit?

[LycopolisKing]

Frederick is essential in Lunatic/Classic, I don't think any one is denying that. But it's entirely possible to never use him at all in Hard mode. Frankly I dislike using Jaegens, and Frederick's low bases and relatively low growths make him one, in my opinion. He comes in with a good weapon, but, especially on Hard, Chrom and MU surpass him within a few levels.

He comes in with a very good weapon, but he is vulnerable to mages and Hammers initially. He also gains EXP at a snails pace except for when in EXPonetial Growth, and his growth rates are so-so. It is rather difficult to train him into a unit on caliber for Lunatic after a certain amount of time, and with other units with higher potential, I have never really bothered with him.

In a side note that will have nothing to do with my rating, I once used him to father Owain. And after that debacle, I've never used him to father again.

Since this is only hard mode, I give him: 4/10.

Edit: Gripes about Frederick seem really obvious to me, as someone who gave Frederick lower than a 7. To quote someone before me, it all comes down to how you play.

His potential is limited. Compared to a unit who is trained to level 20 and given a Master seal, He comes off weaker. And giving him things to improve his potential is simply out of the way when it could be used on a unit with better stats and growths.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Maria's Bro

[Randa]

Fredrick sucks. He falls off the earth and isn't even ness scary for earlygame.

4/10

He sucks and falls off the face of the earth, he's overhyped, has a a crappy exp gain and doesn't have great growths.

If this were lunatic, I'd give him a 10/10. But it's lolhard.

And I'm typing on a phone. Why are you correcting my typo?

I would like a little more explanation about this at your earliest convience. I just don't see a reason for such a low score when he still has a great early game and good mid game utility.

[Da Bear]

I would like a little more explanation about this at your earliest convience. I just don't see a reason for such a low score when he still has a great early game and good mid game utility.

I gave him the same score with a good explanation...

[Randa]

I gave him the same score with a good explanation...

Yes and you explained it. He never stated that he agreed with the reasoning. From what I read he just said he doesn't gain exp well, doesn't have good growths, and he thinks he's overrated. I think he should at least go a bit more in depth. You wrote two paragraphs in which you weighed the pros and cons the other person who gave him a four gave a list, Bryan gave a sentence. For most characters (with the exception of MU who is already done) I won't except that. Wether it be higher or lower or at the general opinion.

[Da Bear]

Yes and you explained it. He never stated that he agreed with the reasoning. From what I read he just said he doesn't gain exp well, doesn't have good growths, and he thinks he's overrated. I think he should at least go a bit more in depth. You wrote two paragraphs in which you weighed the pros and cons the other person who gave him a four gave a list, Bryan gave a sentence. For most characters (with the exception of MU who is already done) I won't except that. Wether it be higher or lower or at the general opinion.

Okay.

[IfOnlyIHadAMemoryEraser]

I think he should at least go a bit more in depth. You wrote two paragraphs in which you weighed the pros and cons the other person who gave him a four gave a list, Bryan gave a sentence. For most characters (with the exception of MU who is already done) I won't except that. Wether it be higher or lower or at the general opinion.

I'm not too savvy with how things work around here, but people that gave a higher score for Frederick with just as little reasoning (and in one case, no reasoning at all) seem to be getting off scot-free.

Apologies if I've gotten the wrong idea here, but this kind of seems a little unfair.

[Randa]

I have spent the last 10 hours outside of my house the last four of which I have had bad back pain. Right now I am looking at the quoted ratings because that means a question was raised I do plan on looking more in depth later when the alleve and heating pad have done their work.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Randa

[IfOnlyIHadAMemoryEraser]

My apologies, then.

[Randa]

Couple of example for short length

Absolutely wonderful the first 3/5's of the game, then falls off hard, being relegated to primarily a support bot. 9/10

8/10 bias score since he's not a cute pegasis/wyvern riding girl

Something like this that's short works because I can see it weighs how he can be useful but also talks about the downside. The bias is not the most brilliant reason but I don't care about the reason for the bias. Good will be accted

Starts off fantastic and is still pretty strong later on with appropriate exp. His speed does kind of hurt though, a little, its the only thing keeping him from a perfect score without bias.

9+1 = 10/10

This is in the middle because I think Horace ignores some of the points against Frederick but he may not think they are important enough to mention. Acceptable but not ideal

8/10

This is not acceptable i need at least some reasoning. Just give me something

I will gladly steal echo this rating.

I never wrote a rule that you can't do this so it is acceptable.

[PK Gaming]

just wondering, were my previous votes counted?

Anyway

Great unit early on, starts to lag by the time you get to valm but still sees use as a pair up partner. He can be made into a viable unit if you go out of your way to fix his flaws.

8/10

[Randa]

The first one was, The second one was the third one was not. I forget to tell you I apologize. I also apologize to everyone else about earlier i was in some serious pain and its calmed down so please for future reference just a bit more on the explanations. Or do the easy thing and make a list.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Randa

[Ema Skye]

Fred:

+ Earlygame is pro

+ Weapon ranks

+ Great Knight bonuses <3

- After around Ch.7 his stats catch up to him and he grows to become an offensive liability

- Takes foreeeeeeeeeeever to level

- Class set is rather unfortunate. He's in a dire need for speed, but Paladin (and Griffon Rider) lowers his borderline strength and defense. Bit of a catch 22 scenario.

- Skill set is rather dissapointing for postgame

I'll give him 4.5/10 with -1 bias because I don't like his character

3.5/10

[Galenforcer]

10/10

I feel like I'm rating him too high, but then again people are rating him pretty low, so I'll just go with this. Frederick, is basically, pretty god-like in this game in the right hands. He is better than most of the team and has the highest defense for a long while. Although people flake at him for his low EXP gain, he is still a valuable member of the team to have around, even if he's overstayed his welcome.

Normal's a cake-walk, so he can pretty much be considered a god. Hard's a bit more challenging, but he can still fit on a team. Lunatic is where he really shines, being an asset for many maps and strategies before anyone else can even function the way he can.

I might be overrating him here, but others have underrated him. But, eh. I think he's pretty close to being Avatar good in a way.