TheIdiotNinja Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Explaining this could get complicated, so for this topic I'll call Lucina's time (the one where Chrom dies to Avatar) "timeline A" and the time when we are playing (the one where Lucina comes out from the sky, ecc.) "timeline B", in order to make it clearer for you to understand. Now. In timeline B, Gaius joins Shepherds thanks to Lucina coming from timeline A. In timeline B, he happily marries someone - Tharja in my example - and creates Noire. However, in timeline A, Shepherds aren't getting warned by Lucina, and Gaius does not meet nor join them. So, where the heck does the Noire from timeline A comes from? Gaius clearly could have not created her since he did not even met Tharja once in timeline A, but still she pops out of nowhere and comes in timeline B. How does she even EXIST. This could be applied to Libra, Tharja, and every other character who joined Shepherds because of Lucina changing the past, and obviously it could be applied with every wife and daughter, not necessarily Tharja and Noire who I used in this example. The only possible explanation is that Gaius met Chrom in timeline A before Chapter 6 but due to Lucina's actions they don't met the same way in timeline B, but since "things always try to go the same way" (aka Emm still dies), we still got to recruit Gaius even if it's not in the same way it happened in timeline A. And even so, how could Lucina's action possibly influence what Chrom did before Chapter 6? Someone must solve this paradox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 In timeline B, Gaius joins Shepherds thanks to Lucina coming from timeline A Here's the issue: Gaius may have joined the Shepherds anyway if Emmeryn was indeed assassinated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Or Gaius just stuck around to loot some treasure chests and was apprehended by Our Heroes™, or just joined them some other way, like out of disgust with her murder. And if Libra wasn't infiltrating Plegia on a fool's errand maybe he would've been with Chrom's main army. Tharja can choose any time to defect, it's not like she would be any more invested in Lucina's future. If we want to BS things then yes we can always say that the timelines are self-healing, but that's boring and it seems to be wrong anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Wright Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 isn't it obvious? regardless of the person they made love to, the exact genes needed to create those characters were the genes each child got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheIdiotNinja Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) Would Gaius joining after Chapter 6 in timeline A make any sense? According to what Lucina says ("things always try to go the same way" aka Emm still dies) it would not any at all. Edited August 23, 2013 by TheIdiotNinja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PM ME MARIANNE ART Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 The candy bag could have been a way for time to get back on track, and Gaius would have joined either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkbubblegum Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) I don't think it would be out of the question for Gaius to have decided to join them, even after Chrom's been attacked though. He seemed to be pretty reluctant to have been there in the first place. Just a bit of prodding would've been enough to make him switch sides it seemed?Seeing Emmeryn die might also be a potential trigger for him to defect as well. Edited August 23, 2013 by pinkbubblegum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheIdiotNinja Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) The candy bag could have been a way for time to get back on track, and Gaius would have joined either way. How could any of Lucina's action make Gaius avoid shepherds before ch6? She pretty much only saved Lissa's life and became Basilio's champion, the only logic thing would be that Lissa got severely hurt by that Risen and that Gaius (who is secretly a healer?) healed her and joined Shepherds. Would not make much sense since he doesn't reclass into priest. The only thing that comes to mind is that maybe Chrom and the group stood in a place for some days waiting for Lissa to recover her strenghts (while in timeline B they don't since Lissa is not hurted), and Gaius for whatever reason passed nearby and joined them. Anyway, it's funny to think about how could have possibly Gaius joined Shepherds before chapter 6, I'm waiting for someone to pull out the perfect supreme hilariously strange story about how Gaius met the group. Edited August 23, 2013 by TheIdiotNinja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 "Joined either way" ≠"joined before Ch. 6". It's entirely possible that Gaius joined later than that. I see no reason whatsoever for Gaius to have to join prior to Ch. 6, so there's no need for "the perfect supreme hilariously strange story about how Gaius met the group." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheIdiotNinja Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 "Joined either way" ≠"joined before Ch. 6". It's entirely possible that Gaius joined later than that. I see no reason whatsoever for Gaius to have to join prior to Ch. 6, so there's no need for "the perfect supreme hilariously strange story about how Gaius met the group." There is no reason Gaius should have joined in timeline B then, future going back to track would have avoided him meeting the group in the form of making him ill that day, or running after hearing he had to kill the exalt, and would have just avoided the encounter until the moment he joins in timeline A occurs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) Would Gaius joining after Chapter 6 in timeline A make any sense? According to what Lucina says ("things always try to go the same way" aka Emm still dies) it would not any at all. "Things always try to go the same way" so Gaius would join the Shepherds anyway... you basically just crushed your own argument. Edited August 23, 2013 by Celes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheIdiotNinja Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 The fact that he joins EALIER makes no sense whatsoever, if anything he should have not met them in ch6 in timeline B but he should have joined later just as he does in timeline A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 The fact that he joins EALIER makes no sense whatsoever, if anything he should have not met them in ch6 in timeline B but he should have joined later just as he does in timeline A. Lucina said "things always try to go the same way." Try when though? Lucina doesn't make it clear. She never denies the possibility that things can happen earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheIdiotNinja Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 Since she doesn't make it clear we both could be right, actually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkbubblegum Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 How could any of Lucina's action make Gaius avoid shepherds before ch6? She pretty much only saved Lissa's life and became Basilio's champion, the only logic thing would be that Lissa got severely hurt by that Risen and that Gaius (who is secretly a healer?) healed her and joined Shepherds. Would not make much sense since he doesn't reclass into priest. The only thing that comes to mind is that maybe Chrom and the group stood in a place for some days waiting for Lissa to recover her strenghts (while in timeline B they don't since Lissa is not hurted), and Gaius for whatever reason passed nearby and joined them. I know this isn't really in tune with what you're asking in the first post, but from my understanding, the Risen actually come from TImeline A. They followed suit after Lucina decided to go back in time. So in TImeline A, the whole thing with the group resting, leading to a Risen attack shouldn't happen in Timeline A yet, as Grima hasn't taken over yet...? xD; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 The entire point of a paradox is that something leads to an impossibility. Lucina says it's possible. Therefore you're just wrong and there is no paradox whatsoever. Lucina says it's possible that time makes X come true, X being Gaius joining the Shepherds. It doesn't matter when Gaius joins as long as Gaius joins. Time wants to make Gaius join the Shepherds. Your paradox is that Gaius couldn't have joined the Shepherds in Timeline A and therefore someone couldn't have existed. You're saying that there is an impossibility. But Lucina herself says that there is a possibility, so therefore there is no paradox. Time made Gaius join the Shepherds whenever it wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquakat Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Lucina said "things always try to go the same way." Try when though? Lucina doesn't make it clear. She never denies the possibility that things can happen earlier. And, going by the game, a lot of things go quicker. Namely the whole endgame? The game, including time skip, is three years. Going by the little bits of information we have about Timeline A, the war with Plegia ALONE likely took that long, let alone the Val and Endgame arcs. Her arrival, and the arrival of the Risen with her as they didn't appear until then, sped things up by a LOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Why should he have joined EARLIER than Ch.6 in the prime timeline, especially when all of Lucina's other changes have involved accelerating events? Your entire argument seems to be "Gaius should join earlier in the prime timeline because that's the only thing that makes sense to me." The fact that he joins EALIER makes no sense whatsoever, if anything he should have not met them in ch6 in timeline B but he should have joined later just as he does in timeline A. Now you're just not making sense at all. Gaius joins EARLIER in the altered timeline because Chrom is there when Gaius is trying to break in, and therefore there is interaction between the two of them earlier than in the prime timeline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EeveeAura Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 I don't think that anyone has said that if Lucina hadn't intervened, Chrom would've been gravely wounded. Which means that someone else in the army could've recruited him on a whim, possibly Freddrick or Lissa, to help try and stop Emmeryn's assassination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Except that nobody knew Emmeryn was being assassinated until it was too late. I honestly prefer the "Gaius stayed late to loot chests and was caught" or "Gaius was wracked by guilt and so joined the Shepherds" - both are simple and workable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquakat Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Except that nobody knew Emmeryn was being assassinated until it was too late. I honestly prefer the "Gaius stayed late to loot chests and was caught" or "Gaius was wracked by guilt and so joined the Shepherds" - both are simple and workable. You're talking about in Timeline A, right? Timeline B pretty clearly defines it as an attempted assassination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Yes, I'm talking about the prime timeline, since we know what happens in the playable one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virtual_maniac Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 There is only a paradox when your prime timeline doesn't have Gaius in the assassination group. First, keep in mind that the Risen show up when they do because they follow Lucina and the other kids through the Outrealm Gate. What this means is that in the prime timeline there aren't any Risen (so Chapter 1 doesn't happen). Which means possibly no trip to Ferox. They initially go because of the Risen and Plegia, but they still might have gone for help with Plegia especially after my next piece. Validar hires Gaius to break into the Ylissdol vault. He leads 30-ish assassins (and Gaius) into Ylissdol. Two go after Chrom, fail to kill him, but wound him. The rest kill Emmeryn and steal the Fire Emblem and the White Gem (Gulles I think) by having Gaius break into the vault. Gaius stays out of regret (he was hired to get into the vault, not kill people) or he gets caught and explains it anyway. Either way, Ylisse goes to war with Plegia because Gaius tells them. -- At this point Chrom might have gone to Ferox for help with his war if he didn't go earlier because of Plegia. Plegia-Ylisse/Ferox war takes longer because with Emmeryn dead she can't make her final speech and cause most of the Plegian army to give up. Valm-Ylisse/Ferox/Plegia war... Maybe. Depends on how long the first war goes. If it lasts long enough, the Grimleal could have stolen the rest of the gems. Either way, Grima rises because Validar has the emblem and the gems. Cue eventual deaths of the Shepards, and most of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.